Dating Thread 221 - will this thread see us through 'till Christmas?

[WeWantTheFinestWines]

The Rules:

1. The first rule about the dating thread is don't talk about it with people you're dating.
2. Develop a thick skin.
3. Do not invest emotionally too soon.
4. It's all BS until it actually happens.
5. Trust your gut instinct.
6. People vanishing, lying & being generally weird is not your fault.
7. Know your worth.
8. If it's not fun, stop.
9. Loo update is mandatory.

10. No dating the thread. 11. Treat others as you'd like to be treated 12. Any relationship you have that could get ruined by having a conversation about your feelings, standards and/or expectations wasn't really stable enough to begin with 13. The things you choose to ignore/ tolerate now are the reasons you will break up in the future 14. OLD can get very time consuming. Keep doing other activities you enjoy.

Optional: Please give your irons (potential dates you are talking to) nicknames like Mr Scottish. Initials are allowed (Mr S) when you are an item

@SpringlikeBunk

Spectacular Mumsnet "flounce" announcement.

Having received feedback on a key piece of work (not as shit as I thought PHEW) I'm going to go on a phone/Internet detox/Mumsnet/break till early new year as I've used screens a bit too much this year and I want to disengage, so will take advantage of the Xmas break excuse

(as there's less work messages I need to engage with as well).

(You can cry and miss me, that's fine ).

See all you lovelies on the other side in 2022.

Oh my god, but who's going to remind us about the threadie meet on 5/6th Feb?! 😳

Have a fab Christmas, we'll miss you!

[quote FabulousMrFifty]@SpringlikeBunk
Great idea, think I follow you (not literally)[/quote]
Ha ha that would be so creepy! Poor @SpringlikeBunk suddenly going to find a couple of dozen Mumsnetters staring in at her kitchen window 😆

@SpringlikeBunk good for you! I'm hoping to get a million and 8 things done this week that are work-related. Given everything that's gone on the past two weeks, work has taken a back-seat and i've got to pull my socks up! I don't particularly enjoy the work i do BUT the people are very decent and the WFH situation is just amazing for me!

@FabulousMrFifty i'm happy you did hear back from her... but a whole week is a long time to go? Even if life/kids get in the way a message/email is 5minutes from an entire day. I'm speaking from experience here when magnet-man and i would meet then i'd think we were blissfully happy only for him to go quiet again. This time round i made it clear how much contact i want from him and it seems to have worked. Although i don't think everyone has an emotional connection to messages like i do. I'm guessing like spring said perhaps you're a nice addition to her life rather than part of it. Really hope that isn't harsh. So it depends what you want from it all really doesn't it. I think i'd like to be more a part of magnet-mans life, but we've got distance plus his demanding job which takes him all over the place and i have my DS 24/7 to contend with so big obstacles at the moment.
@BelladiMamma thanks for your post, how was the writers retreat? I'm thinking i need to just have the conversation with my neighbour again. My DS says i need to stop 'disappointing his(my neighbours) hopes.' He'd set up OLD a few weeks ago but then yesterday said he 'wanted to wait and see how things went with us.'
If i knew that magnet-man was visiting it'd be easy to slip it into a conversation with him. But this is still up in the air. He did make a vague suggestion of coming after the 28th when he has had his booster. But now i'm thinking what the heck are we going to do... town's shutting down here really? Can't get into bars/restaurants without certificates and reservations. But i suppose a cosy few days here at my place would help me workout if we are compatible in the 'realworld' and not just in the Scania! 🤩

@ibelieveinmirrorballs
It was all good thanks, as it’s email and. Not WA or messenger etc, it’s more like letter writing, so she told be about getting her son from Uni, work stuff, problem other one her horses that needed vet attention etc.
Something I cannot repeat, and concerns about lockdown and our distance apart

Ciao @SpringlikeBunk! Happy holidays 🎄😄

Hi there - I do try and keep up and would love to contribute but just can't find the time...

Hoping you wise people will say I haven't overreacted to this.

Boyfriend of nearly 12m. Exclusive. In bed yesterday he was showing me something on his phone and a Tinder profile popped up. He quickly moved it away but I know what I saw.

He said he's still on there, never uses it so can't see the point of deleting it.

My friend looked for him last night and saw him pretty quickly.

I said I'd like him to delete his profile but he's very non committal about that and doesn't appreciate me telling him what to do.

Got a horrible feeling I'm breaking something that was really good, because everything else is great.

Would this be a deal breaker for anyone?

@FabulousMrFifty it's weird to think about reverting to email writing style - where it's more of a complete update rather than back and forths. Sorry if my question sounded overly-nosy but I'm glad you got a decent response. How did the two of you meet, given she lives so far away?

@thegreenestbear I would find that really irritating tbh, but I think the thing that stands out the most is the seeming lack of concern for how you might be feeling about it. Playing the 'don't tell me what to do' card is quite tricky because obviously most of us would balk at being accused of doing that.

His profile coming up quickly when looking would suggest to me he is 'recently active'. I'm not sure what the solution is because the mature thing to do would be to discuss it with a mutual care about the other's feelings and looking for resolution. How have you left things?

I left it with him and said if it was important to him that he kept it to let me know.

I just don't know why you'd want to be on there if you were happy with the person you're with?

We didn't have a conversation about deleting apps - foolishly I assumed we were on the same page and to be fair, up until yesterday I thought we were.

Have a horrible feeling I've spoilt things by going on about it when he clearly doesn't want to delete the profile.

Should I have just let it go?

@thegreenestbear profiles wouldn’t be ‘popping up’ if he never uses it I don’t think. It suggests a more ‘active’ presence to me. 12 months is a long time to be together so only you can decide if you can live with knowing he’s actively swiping while seeing you also. Did you ever have a conversation about being exclusive or was it just assumed?
I think I would try to have an honest chat with him again and see what he says and then decide. I don’t think any committed person in an exclusive relationship would or should have a problem deleting apps.

And no you shouldn’t have let it go. You need to clear this up. If you have believed you have been exclusive all this time and maybe you actually haven’t that has huge implications esp sexual health wise. You have a right to be concerned and should be able to raise your concerns in a healthy relationship

@thegreenestbear I would personally walk away at that. The signs say still active especially as he wiped it away quickly. Just to give you an example, I met my partner a month ago, we agreed exclusivity. He said he was snoozing his app, no pressure on me but I did. Yesterday was saying how his sibling wanted to see his profile after being told about me, and he refused to unsnooze due to the slightest chance I would see that and feel a bit hurt. OK this is a lot but deep down it's important to me. Ultimately you need to decide what you feel comfortable with. I do know other couples where the man keeps his profile open just to keep an eye out yet is faithful in person.

No, no conversation. I just assumed as we were close we were exclusive. And I don't think he's seen anyone, I can't think he'd have the time.

I've not met any family or friends, though he's met mine.

I think because things were so good when we were together I overlooked things. I've been a little stupid and naive, haven't I?

@thegreenestbear

I left it with him and said if it was important to him that he kept it to let me know.

I just don't know why you'd want to be on there if you were happy with the person you're with?

We didn't have a conversation about deleting apps - foolishly I assumed we were on the same page and to be fair, up until yesterday I thought we were.

Have a horrible feeling I've spoilt things by going on about it when he clearly doesn't want to delete the profile.

Should I have just let it go?

He knew you wouldn't like it hence him moving the phone away when it popped up.

You haven't spoiled things by 'going on about it' - it would seem to fly in the face of having a happy, exclusive relationship for him to be on the apps. And it's not as though deleting the apps is some sort of big irreversible step - as we all know, you can delete and reinstate them in a few minutes - it's a symbolic step in the direction of being in a committed relationship.

@thegreenestbear - no family or friends in 12 months? I would hate that personally unless there was very good reason such as distance, particularly as he's met yours. What's the reason for that?

I agree with @Eesha re. walking away I think, or at least at this point sticking to your guns on it. If it was the other way around I think you'd be bending over backwards to prove to him that there was nothing to it and trying to provide sufficient reassurance.

@thegreenestbear I post this regularly to remind people (apologies to those who've seen it before):

Nowadays the questions you need to ask to establish things are IMHO:

1. Are you on the apps? You may need to expand on this as he may think having a profile but not logging in means he is off it. Also is his profile hidden or deleted?

1. Is he multi dating? Not multi dating doesnt mean you are boyfriend/girlfriend, it just means he isnt dating others?

Does he envisage he wants to multidate now or in the future?

1. Are you exclusive? This is different to the boyfriend/girlfriend question. Is he chatting/flirting/sexting/emotionally or physically intimate with anyone else?

Some people think exclusive is sexual exclusivity but I think sexting others is not an exclusive behaviour.

1. What are you? Casually dating? Going with the flow? Boyfriend/girlfriend?

Lots in between all those too.

1. For further down the line....what do you think is cheating? Years ago I never thought I'd have this conversation with someone but after my husband emotionally cheated I felt I should and so Mr K and I had the chat once we'd had the exclusive and boyfriend/girlfriend chat. It was important for me (and him actually) that we had similar views on what constituted cheating and what was acceptable behaviour.

Think about what you want now and in the future and your answers to those questions and then ask him.
If you're intimate already then questions 1 -3 are perfectly fine to ask for now.

Question 4 can come later or if 1 - 3 go well.

@thegreenestbear @thegreenestbear It doesn't sound like you've ever had any conversation.
Assuming is just the worst thing.
Sounds like he's not as invested in your 'relationship' as you are.
This shows a lack of respect for you and I'd be getting STI testing done

@ibelieveinmirrorballs
Ms W is actually from the Home Counties & we used to work together for a while, about 15 yrs ago, she married a Welsh man and they moved to Wales as he had land and family and to bring up their kids in the countryside, we kept in touch over the years, through her divorce etc, (she is actually from quite a well off family), and she now has a couple of horses, a pony, few dogs / cats / chickens etc, like a bloody menagerie
Earlier this year one of my friends go married in mid Wales, and ms W was my + 1.
I used to use her for my dating advice, so she knows all about me,

@thegreenestbear This would be a hard no from me. 12 months is a decent length of time and I don't think I could get over the fact he's still (despite what he says) clearly active on a dating app. Even if he's not been talking/meeting with anyone, it still leaves a nasty taste of him 'keeping an eye out' or 'looking for something better'. This is no reflection on you, his shitty behaviour is all on him.

I've been in the position of 'assuming' exclusivity, and as @SortingItOut says, it really is the worst thing to do. I did this in my first relationship following the end of my ltr last year. I naively assumed we were 'boyfriend and girlfriend' without needing to have a chat about it. Long story short, we weren't, and a discussion on this unfortunately is always needed in modern dating.

I'm sorry you're going through this

@SpringlikeBunk biii 👋🏻 and enjoy your well deserved screen break ❤️

@thegreenestbear you've had some great advice here. There might be an innocent explanation however you need to have the conversation. Alternatively you could decide that given you didn't have the conversation but that your actions towards him had been 'acting as if you're exclusive' and he didn't bother to tell you otherwise (eg hasn't deleted the app) then he doesn't deserve you. Either way 💛💛💛

@FabulousMrFifty I do know some very busy country types who are crap at communication, however you should be able to tell her how you feel about that and you should be able to just pick up the (landline) phone to any FWB and have a chat, especially if she's not so good at initiating contact.

[quote ibelieveinmirrorballs]@FabulousMrFifty it's weird to think about reverting to email writing style - where it's more of a complete update rather than back and forths. Sorry if my question sounded overly-nosy but I'm glad you got a decent response. How did the two of you meet, given she lives so far away?[/quote]
If you get the chance, read Bram Stokers Dracula, it’s a book written in letter writing style, fascinating read ( not at all Scary),
If you ever go to Whitby you will why Bram Stoker choose that location as a plot vehicle

@thegreenestbear, I’m sorry that you have encountered this situation with your relationship. It must feel very unsettling. You’ve had some good advice and all I would add is someone with nothing to hide would seek to reassure. He may have felt very on the spot when the notification came up but it sounds like he reacted as someone caught out rather than mystified at it happening. I think as difficult as it feels you need to address this. Be strong and say that you feel it is something that you want to discuss, are we exclusive? I was in a similar situation with a previous partner and it completely eroded trust (although we were having issues in general)

thegreenest it's rule 12 in our introductory rules-to-date-by, isn't it? If he's committed and wants to be with you, he'll have the conversation and want to reassure you. If he isn't.... this is how you found out. Such a shit thing to have happened to you, I'm sorry.

Bye springlike - see you next year!

Interesting isn't it now when you start settling on one iron, the others seem to start ruling themselves out.
MrBoxing tried to start a half arsed argument with me about the vaccine and then left me some drunk voice notes which were fine in themselves but not really screaming 'interesting guy' to me.
So I'm down to MrA, long distance flirting and no relationship likely now or in the future
MrBeau - slow fade from both sides
MrPoet - nice, respectful FWB but won't be long term due to bedroom issues
MrDublin - organising childcare and talking and flirting and laughing and generally a lot of fun and have really clicked with him. Low expectations etc etc but this is the one I'll focus on for now

Thank you so much everyone - I'm not clever enough on my phone to tag you all.

Some very wise words here. You are all right in what you say - he's not as committed as I am in a nutshell.

I was beating myself up thinking what else does he want. I'm secure financially, good job, no ex issues, low maintenance, kind, loving, same values and sense of humour and the sex is the best ever. What more could he realistically want?

Then I realised if he has all this on tap without any commitment on his side, then this is exactly what he wants.

Absolutely gutted - after eight years OLD I really thought I'd found someone special.

So annoyed with myself - only gave him his present on Saturday and a card saying 'to someone special'.

To those who queried me not meeting his family - I live closer to his Mum than he does, and his adult children live ten minutes away.

I've been such an idiot