Leaving husband or stay for the children?

[Mumof3confused]

I’ve NC for this.

The short story is, I have 3 kids (6, 8 and 10). Married 10 years, together 15, friends before that. Very lovely husband who pulls his weight around the house and very hands on dad.

The thing is, we are great friends but I can’t stand the thought of having sex with my husband anymore. It hasn’t been great ever since our first one was born and it has been getting progressively work. Different levels of sex drives, different wants, him asking me to do various things I don’t want (nothing awful but for example wants me to wear stockings etc occasionally even though I hate it). He has also been keeping tabs (actually keeping a record) of how often we have sex but only intercourse ‘counts’. Also keeping tabs on my cycle so he knows when he needs to have sex with me before having to wait a few days. He knows this drives me up the wall but did not actually stop keeping this record until I booked us a relationship counsellor. He also would comment about wanting sex every time he’d see me naked in the shower or walking past half dressed, only ever complimentary but actually this would make me feel a bit harassed. If he didn’t get sex for 3-4 days he’d get a bit tense/moody/struggle to sleep and even though he’d say nothing, I’d always know it’s because it’s been too long since the last time we did it. Also he does not seem to want to DIY it, it felt like a chore in the end or my responsibility. This has led to me losing all desire for him and in fact I don’t think I’ll be able to find it again, despite trying to work through things in counselling.

The other issue I have is that he leaves almost all ‘mental load’ responsibilities to me. He cannot organise, plan, fix, repair anything. When we need a new car I sort that, when something breaks at home it’s up to me to fix or get someone in to sort. Whether it’s something at home that needs fixing, finances, etc he categorically cannot do it. He’s just useless at it, so even if he takes on a task, I have to check he’s got it right. And no, it’s not just my standards being high. He actually seems incapable on so many levels, even though he has a good job with responsibilities so he clearly can do some things.

He does deal with things at home such as bins, some cleaning, a lot of the cooking and buying food, as well as the kids sporting clubs (organises, books, sometimes takes them). But in many ways he does feel like having an extra child because I can’t trust him to help me manage the mental load. I think he’s perhaps one of those people that is quite creative me very intelligent but lacks all common sense.

He also does not seem to notice me much, as in the real me. I’m independent and rarely need much emotional support but if/when I do, it’s like he doesn’t notice me or that I am struggling. He has also failed to stand up for me in situations involving certain family members of his in the past.

I realise I’m rambling but I’m writing in a rush. Basically I feel he needs to grow a bit of a back bone. Yes it’s my fault for marrying someone who I know is quite placid and laid back, certainly more of a metrosexual than manly man. But he was kind and I had not had many kind partners before him. And I knew he’d make a great dad, he’d be always faithful, and he adored me - he still does (or he adores the perfect image of me that he has created in his mind).

We have three children and people are often told on Mumsnet to stay for the sake of the children. I don’t know if that is something that is possible for us in the long run. I feel our relationship is not one of equals but I may be able to live with this. I could probably also live without sex but I don’t think he would agree to this. And even if he did, it seems like a slippery slope and the inevitable thing that would happen is one of us would eventually fall into an affair and then everything would blow up.

I am sure that I can’t fancy him again, regardless of how much therapy we have. I am repulsed by him. But he is an attractive man and I do believe that someone else would probably adore him and he does deserve that.

What would you do? Is it ok to leave a man who is kind, a good dad, pulls his weight around the house, but that you feel only friendly feelings for?

Joint counselling as well is NEVER recommended where there is abuse of any type within the relationship. That Relate counsellor you're seeing is not helpful and besides which NO decent counsellor would ever want to counsel you two in the same room together.

@Fluffycloudland77

People are often told to leave on mumsnet, I’ve only rarely seen people say you should stay in an unhappy marriage.

Usually though they go back to the dh even after they’ve slept with half the town and spent their savings on gambling etc.

I wouldn’t expect anyone to tell me to stay in an unhappy marriage but perhaps someone has experience of working on it and ending up happy in the end.

I’m not sure how that last comment is helpful to me?

This is from the sticky (permanent) thread at the top of these Relationships pages:-

Every person deserves to have a relationship where they are treated with respect, love and equality.

There is never an excuse for verbal, physical or financial abuse.

If you partner treats you like shit, it is their fault. It is not because of something you have done.

You can't change an abusive man by being 'better' or sticking by him where others haven't, or by changing yourself.

Most people have happy relationships, where disagreements happen and are resolved without resorting to shouting, name calling or violence or screwing someone else.

Most people's partners are happy for them to pursue their own friendships and interests, work and education, have access to money, make decisions.

Most people in a relationship stay faithful. They don't have affairs or cyber-sex or obsessively wank over porn day and night.

Don't be fooled into thinking that dysfunctional relationships are the norm. There are many of them on here, but then people don't tend to ask for advice on healthy relationships, so we hear less about them.

Relationships are not supposed to be hard work, that is a big fat myth. Yes, you should work at your relationship but that is not the same thing at all.

Nobody should live their life in fear of angering their partner, or skirting round issues that might upset him. Or put up with cheating and lying for fear of rocking the boat.

Nobody should 'stay together for the children', or because of your marriage vows. If your husband treats you badly, he has broken the vows. Children are much much happier being brought up by parents who live apart than in an atmosphere of fear and loathing.

Just because you've escaped a level 10 bastard, doesn't mean you should settle for the level 8 one that comes along. The only acceptable level of abuse is none.

Just because all your friends are in bad relationships, doesn't mean that you have to be.

I really want to debunk the myth that all men are bastards. They simply aren't. If you feel that all the men you meet are, it's because you are unconsciously sending out vibes to these men. They can spot a target a mile off.

Be on your own. It is much easier than sticking by a tosser. If you have been in more than one abusive relationship, seek some counselling, you may be co-dependant, or you may be modelling relationships on a warped template, perhaps from childhood.

If he abuses you, he is not a good father. Good fathers don't treat the mother of their children with disrespect.

It doesn't matter how much he says sorry and makes it up to you, if he continues to abuse you those apologies are worthless.

Don't be fooled into thinking the abuse isn't 'bad enough to leave'. If you are treated in any way less than cherished, loved and respected, it is bad enough to leave.

There is never a reason to stay with an abusive man. He won't kill himself if you leave him, he won't take your children, and yes, everybody will believe you.

I would add additionally to the above:-

1. The only acceptable level of abuse in a relationship is NONE.
2. Women should not act as rehab centres for badly raised men.

"I wouldn’t expect anyone to tell me to stay in an unhappy marriage but perhaps someone has experience of working on it and ending up happy in the end".

The only way such people are happy in the end is when they leave their abuser.

It takes two to work on a marriage and your H seems quite happy as he is. He is not going to want to change or even anything within this abuse dynamic because he has you just where he wants you i.e feeling trapped, without a voice and coerced.

Abuse is NOT a relationship problem. It is about power and control and your H wants absolute over you and in turn your kids.

@AttilaTheMeerkat I struggle to see the abuseiveness in his behaviour and probably she also hasn’t seen that (yet)? Thoughtless and selfish yes but abusive?

The only time I’ve thought there’s something about his behaviour that made me feel like I was being gaslighted is that when I found these messages between him and his ‘friend’, he turned it around to make it all about how outrageously I had behaved for snooping. It was the first time I had snooped in the 20 years is known him and I still think those messages were totally inappropriate. I could tell nothing had happened but definitely moving into emotional affair territory. He’s now changed his phone password.

OP, I could have written this post myself…my husband has completely damaged my view of sex because of nearly all the same reasons you have listed. I can genuinely smell the desperation on him and it is so unattractive. He’s mentioned previously (usually when drunk) that it’s “not normal” how infrequently I want sex, but I have genuinely never experienced his weird obsession with it previously and was as into the whole thing as much as any previous partner. It takes away from it being a totally natural urge, to something pressured and all consuming.

Sorry, I didn’t mean to go on about myself there; I just wanted you to know that I full my empathise. Whilst he and I are in a generally much better place, I think our sex life is permanently damaged because of previous behaviours sadly.

I’m not sure if this applies to your situation, but my husband’s mum has this exact same quality (not with regards to sex obviously 😂), but she is very immature in trying to get her own way constantly, and openly sulks if she doesn’t. I can totally see where my husband gets it from and he is actually no contact with her now as her behaviours have been so outrageous over the years. He has seen that he can behave like this too and this has helped him change. Does your husband have any such influence in his life, I wonder?

I think once the attraction goes then it’s done. If you can afford to part and provide reasonable lives for all then I think that sounds a better option than plodding on and forcing yourself to have sex with someone when you don’t want to.

@ShellfishLove I’m sorry to hear you are going through this, too. I also thought that we had a pretty good relationship apart from the sex, until I started to open my eyes to the fact that we weren’t really. He has in the past asked me to get blood tests to rule out any medical reasons for my low libido, which I have done a few times now. I feel like an idiot for doing that now. There’s nothing wrong with me!

My MIL is a nightmare and SIL calls her manipulative. I don’t speak to her as little as possible. She’s a bit of a ridiculous woman. She did bulldoze in when we had our first newborn who was unwell at birth. I asked my husband to keep her away and he said he couldn’t keep her away from her own grandchild. Therapy has reminded me of this, and how violated and unprotected I actually felt. He ‘does not remember’ this happening!! He’s very non-confrontational and I put it down to this but I am now getting angry about all sorts of past issues like this. We also send his mum £50 every month even though money is very tight for us right now. It was her choice to never work…now I need to stop re my MIL or my blood will boil over!

@Sosoo finances will be very tight that’s for sure. There’s no way we could get two large flats or houses where we are now.

I have forced myself to have sex with him for too long. That has stopped now, and I don’t see it ever being on the cards again.

Looking up coercive control he does not do any of those things ie instil fear, limit my access to finances, not letting me go out (I have a very active and social life), he’s not possessive, jealous, does not tell me what to wear/do. If anything he encourages it but also rides on my coat tails a bit in terms of social life. I’m very independent and actually, it was lockdown that made me begin to doubt our relationship as we were suddenly seeing so much of each other and I felt completely suffocated. A bit like people might feel when they retire, I suppose. He can’t wait to retire together whereas the thought of just the two of us at home without children fills me with dread.

Looking up coercive control he does not do any of those things ie instil fear, limit my access to finances, not letting me go out (I have a very active and social life), he’s not possessive, jealous, does not tell me what to wear/do.

He does not have to do all those things but he is still abusive towards you all the same. He is a sex pest, he does not notice you, he gives you all the mental load to carry, he's gone off to play sport this morning whilst you are at home with a sick child, you now find him repulsive (understandably) and unsurprisingly his mother is awful as well. The rotten apple that is your H did not fall far from the rotten tree that is his family.

Consider ditching the joint counselling and talk with Womens Aid about your life within this home.

@AttilaTheMeerkatWomen’s aid? im not in any danger.

It is not only beatings that put women in danger. I am really surprised you have normalised someone monitoring sexual activity as a job and telling you you are missing your targets. No wonder you find him repulsive.

That, not the lack of sex, is what can push you to frustration, anger and mental health problems and eventually to be in a situation were you start being more physically aggressive to each other. Are you already living your life one day at a time? If your DD told you their partner is doing that to them would you just brush it off as “one of those things man do”? If you do, you need to get out of that cycle. If you won’t then this is the time when you need to stop your husband doing that to you but honestly, once the attraction goes/you fall out of love it is only very very rarely that it comes back.

@GoodnightGrandma definitely never thought that was normal, it has always disturbed me but when you can’t talk to someone else about it because it makes you cringe, his attitude was all I had to go by, I suppose. Yes it’s no wonder I went off sex. That discussion was brought up by him, because he wanted more sex! Totally missing the mark, as he seems to do with so many other things.

I’m not living my life one day at a time. And no, I would not just brush that off but I would ask lots more questions about why etc. I don’t actually have a straight answer as to why he found this was somehow necessary. He’s been doing it for years as well, it makes my skin crawl. Obviously he has stopped doing everything including ogling etc, I have said I am nowhere near ready to have sex. In fact our counsellor suggested we’d hold hands occasionally ‘to show we are working through this together’ and I have refused that, too.

I also think I am unlikely to fall back in love with him. I find him a bit pathetic.

I think he’s controlling and I don’t think he is a good husband. He sounds very selfish in some respects.

He is not incapable, he would face up manage all those things if he lived on his own, he’s just leaving it up to you. Teach your daughters that this isn’t okay and leave the idiots!

@Lovelymincepies yes of course he would find ways to deal with things if living alone but thinking back, he would lean on me and other friends loads even before we were together. He used to be a bit skint and hopeless and perhaps played on that a bit as well. He wasn’t anymore when we got together, had bought a flat etc, but the dynamics were there from early on I suppose. He was in a relationship with someone really awful and controlling before me, I think she had a diagnosis or bipolar or something.

@AttilaTheMeerkat

"Women’s aid? im not in any danger".

You've missed off the rest of what I wrote here; the rest of my sentence about your life at home. That is what I would like you to talk to them about.

Leave. There’s no such thing as staying for the children. You would be staying for your image of how family living should be. It wouldn’t benefit them

"He was in a relationship with someone really awful and controlling before me, I think she had a diagnosis or bipolar or something".

A diagnosis or "bipolar or something?!. Is this what he told you and do you actually believe him?. I think he is lying through his teeth; if anyone is really awful and controlling here it is him. Not you and not any ex of his.

Would you want your children as adults to be in a relationship or marriage like yours?. No you would not, you would say you want better for them. I would urge you to prove that fully by both word and deed.

@AttilaTheMeerkat I didn’t know they offer random chats with women like myself. As for his ex, I knew him well and knew her. She behaved awfully in front of us also. I’ve nothing to prove to Mumsnet if that is what you are asking me to do.

@BurntO I don’t give a toss about my age but it’s well proven that children suffer in divorce so forgive me for wanting to make sure I’m not making a mistake.

He was in a relationship with someone really awful and controlling before me, I think she had a diagnosis or bipolar or something.

Controlling men always have a controlling, toxic, crazy, abusive ex they blame for their own behaviour.

If you spoke to her you may well find he was the controlling one, and either made her mentally unwell, or chose a mentally unwell woman, targeting her vulnerability.

However, given we know your husband is controlling, it's interesting that he claims his ex was both controlling and that she had "bipolar or something". You mentioned that your MIL is manipulative and difficult. Do any specific mental health issues run in your husband's family?

You said you don't know how to broach this with him. I think an honest answer: "You're an amazing dad and I care about you, but I'm no longer in love with you. The therapy has helped me to realise this."

Could you seek a trial separation as a way to get further space and perspective for yourself?

Your children are like sponges; they have and will indeed pick up on all this between you two within their home. We learn about relationships first and foremost from our parents just as you did from your own parents.

You have not answered the question as to whether you would want them as adults to have such a relationship but I would assume you would want better for them. What about you though, you most certainly matter.

This man targeted you deliberately and he acts like this towards you because he can. He feels absolutely entitled to do whatever the hell he pleases because he knows you will carry the can.

Divorce, in and of itself, need not be harmful to children. It is the adversarial and contentious process of divorce, if continued, that may wreak damage. Yet research indicates that most children adapt to their new circumstances within a few years. Having two parents successfully move forward with their lives teaches an invaluable lesson: that we deserve to be happy and to feel loved. Conversely, remaining in relationships that perpetuate anger, devaluation, and lack of positive interactions leaves an indelible scar on children.

The good divorce — one in which parents focus on the wellbeing of the children — is becoming more commonplace and is certainly a goal. Either way, for the sake of the children, we should either commit to making our marriages the best they can be. And if we can’t succeed in that endeavor, we should demonstrate lovingly to our kids that we all deserve happiness, even at the cost of divorcing.