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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

I don't think I will be allowed to see my new grandchild.

1000 replies

Chopinandchampagne · 13/12/2021 00:27

Some of you may remember my previous threads regarding my relationship with my daughter and SIL.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/4145356-SIL-and-money-issues?msgid=109152806#109152806

It has been a difficult year, following the death of DH, with lots of firsts to get through, but I have just about survived, with a lot of support from DD2 and DD3, DH's family and friends. And, earlier in the year, DD1 told me she was expecting DGS1 in early January. This time she told me very shortly after the pregnancy was confirmed, and was clearly thrilled saying that 'new life' was coming after DH's death. She was delighted to find out that the baby is a boy, as SIL particularly wanted a son, after two daughters.

I had thought that, if there were any positives from DH's death - and it is hard to think of any, as I loved him so much - the family might be reconciled and healed. And I was very happy to hear about the baby, although a bit concerned, given the two previous emergency C sections (although I kept my concerns to myself).

DD1 has now moved to Ireland, having purchased a small holding with her inheritance from DH's aunt, as DH drafted his aunt's will so that his share would go to his DC if he were to predecease her. DD1 had sent me photos of the new property, says how much they love it over there, it feels 'so right' etc. They went for about a month and have now returned to the UK for the birth. I thought all was fine with my relationship with DD1, we were having natural conversations, FaceTimes with DGD1 and DGD2, ending conversations with 'I love you; etc.

I had enjoyed picking out some Christmas presents, which I thought they would enjoy. With the DGDs, I have sent presents which I knew they would appreciate, for DD1 some cashmere hat, gloves, scarf etc, and socks for baby, as I know it will be cold on the small holding, but also a food hamper, chocolates and candles sent jointly to DD1 and SIL, saying with love from Mum etc.

I spoke to DD1 on Friday and I could tell that there was something wrong, as she seemed more tense, less relaxed. She started by saying that she thought I should claim a refund for the hamper, that I had wasted my money, as the ham was too dry and not as good as supermarket ham. I thanked her for letting me know and said I would do so. She said the chocolates had too many additives, so they couldn't eat them (I had chosen dairy and soy free ones, as DGD1 had an allergy to dairy), so I said fine, just regift or donate them. They are generally happy with the DGC's toys, although I shouldn't send anything else. I said I understood, and was conscious that they wouldn't want too much stuff to take back to Ireland.

Then I asked her about how she was feeling and how the 36 week scan had gone. It seems that the baby is small (10th percentile), although appears healthy, but she is very worried about the birth, which is understandable, given the history. She wants a natural birth and is terrified of intervention. She thinks some of the medical staff are horrible and referred to one who asked her last time if she wanted a dead baby on her conscience, after she refused medical advice to have an elective C section. I made reassuring comments. She also said that she might not tell anyone when she went into labour as she didn't want to worry anyone, such as SIL's grandparents (last time she sent me messages before the birth and we spoke afterwards).

We then had a discussion about Ireland. They have run into some problems to do with the Forestry/Agricultural Commission which are preventing them from obtaining a felling licence and flock number, which they need to purchase animals. It seems that not all of the land has been conveyed to them and they have fallen out with the solicitor, whom they feel has been negligent. SIL spent a long time composing a letter and was angry when he only received a brief reply from the solicitor.

Anyway, after all that, I said that I and her sisters were looking forward to seeing the baby, especially after not seeing DGD1 as a baby, and DGD2 because of lockdown. She went a bit quiet and was non committal just saying Mmm, we'll see, I need to have the baby first. I pressed the point and she said 'SIL is my husband'. I said 'Yes, I know'. She said that I had tried to make her feel guilty over her treatment of DH and that she didn't feel guilty. She repeated this and then said that I had said that I was going to write SIL a letter in the summer and that it might now be too late. I was genuinely taken aback by this.

For context, before I visited in the summer, we had a heated conversation where I said that she had hurt DH (and me) by not telling him about the birth of DGD1 for 14 months or her marriage and by moving without telling us. I admit I was angry as I felt that DH had been cheated of precious time with his granddaughter, although I said that I knew she hadn't known that he was going to die. I said that I thought that she had been emotionally abusive in 'ghosting' us and I didn't want to form an attachment to my DGCs if there was a risk of it happening again. It would just be too painful. It made me afraid of loving them as I would wish to. DD1 had referred then to the incident, some years before, where I had made SIL leave my house (they weren't married then), as I felt he was bullying her. I said that it was all a long time ago and that 'Dad didn't do anything wrong, did he?', to which she replied 'No'. She said that SIL had told her not to be in contact.

I subsequently said, in another conversation, that I had been angry, but that I wasn't any longer, and that it would be nice if we could go out to lunch together, just the two of us, when I visited, and to start rebuilding our relationship. I duly visited, had what I thought was a very pleasant day with the family at a local attraction, then lunch with DD1 then next day. I said I thought that the previous day had gone well and she said that SIL had told her that he did not want me to visit too often (this was the first time I had visited since DH's funeral). I said that I was sorry to hear this and was there some way of resolving matters; that the 'incident' was all a long time ago, that it was time to move on, and that DH's death put disagreements into context. She said maybe I should say that to SIL and it was him I should be taking out or talking to. I said I would be happy to talk to him, but I doubted that he would want to go out with me, maybe I should write him a letter. So I floated the idea of a letter in a private conversation with DD1, but did not say that I was definitely going to write one and, upon reflection, I thought that it might be too much of a hostage to fortune.

During this lunch, which was mostly pleasant, and focusing on neutral topics, DD1 repeated again that she had cut us off because SIL had told her to, that she had had to choose and would always choose SIL. I said that I had made SIL leave my house on that occasion because I was trying to protect her, especially given her previous abusive relationship. She said she had not told SIL about this ie the previous relationship and she was not sure if she would behave in the same way as I did. She said she appreciated that I did not know that she would marry SIL at the time. I said that I understood that, in the final analysis, she would and should put her family first, but I thought she should also have some loyalty to her original family. After that, we returned to everyday topics and I thought we had both had a pleasant lunch, 'cleared the air', and that we were moving forward in rebuilding our relationship. However, it seems I was wrong.

When we returned to the house after lunch (for me to call a taxi back to the hotel), SIL went off to his workshop without speaking to me or saying goodbye. I went to the workshop and said goodbye and gave him a hug. I found it a gruelling trip without DH but went away thinking it had gone well.

Anyway, back to the present, I was blindsided by DD1's comments in the conversation to the effect that I should have written a letter and that it might be 'too late'. I said what did she think I should say in the letter. I said that it was all so long ago, that I had apologised to SIL, that we had met since then at DD1's 21st, that he had said we were 'ok'.DD1 said she didn't want anything that would upset her after the birth. I said that I would never do anything to upset her after the birth. I said that I was nice to SIL, praised him for his DIY skills and as a father, that I behaved in a civilised fashion, sent him cards and gifts, what more could I do, I couldn't make him like me. At this stage DD1 was clearly agitated and said she had to go and that she would speak to me another time. I said 'Alright darling, good bye'.

So I feel both devastated and empty at the same time. I had thought, after the most hellish two years, when I had to watch my beloved DH die and then lose his aunt, whom I was close to. When, more recently, my MIL nearly died, my sister in law has had major surgery, and I have lost one of my closest friends (the funeral is this week), I had thought that I had just about survived. I keep giving myself a talking to, saying come on, just one more step forward, nearly there, nearly the end of the year. And now this.

I apologise for the length of this post, but I would be grateful for any advice as to how handle the situation. Part of just feels like giving up, but I obviously don't want to lose DD1 again, and I am worried about the birth of DGS and would have wanted to be a support, not an aggravating factor.

OP posts:
LarryUnderwood · 14/12/2021 15:48

Gosh, how awful of her. I'd be minded to simply say that she can do what she wants with them and if that means she throws them away then so be it - but manners cost nothing and a simple thank you would suffice. And that you won't send gifts in future as you can see that they are not of benefit to her or you.

mbosnz · 14/12/2021 15:54

Well. . . you could send her a book on modern etiquette and manners. Or that classic, 'How to Win Friends and Influence People'.

It sounds like they need both. . .

SpringCrocus · 14/12/2021 15:54

Oh dear. What a cruel message.
I've read all your threads, and posted on some.
Please, go vLC from now on, any contact just opens you to further abuse from both of them.
And yes, just reply that she should donate them to a refuge, if the gifts are not acceptable to them.
And don't apologise, arrange refunds etc.

Then just drop the rope and get on with the life you have with your family and friends.
Your eldest daughter may eventually escape from LBs malign clutches, if so you can consider then, how you want to react

Lasair · 14/12/2021 15:59

That message is straight from his mouth. I’m so sorry that is a really awful message. One I’d never send any parent or anyone. We all get gifts we don’t like sometimes and just say “thanks so much! So lovely!”

peboh · 14/12/2021 16:00

I'd tell her to grow up and be grateful for all you've done and tried to do for her.
I'd really consider Lc moving forward op. This isn't good for your own mental health, and it seems as if dd and sil enjoy the drama.

WhoAre · 14/12/2021 16:00

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WhoAre · 14/12/2021 16:02

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CharityDingle · 14/12/2021 16:03

@SpringCrocus

Oh dear. What a cruel message. I've read all your threads, and posted on some. Please, go vLC from now on, any contact just opens you to further abuse from both of them. And yes, just reply that she should donate them to a refuge, if the gifts are not acceptable to them. And don't apologise, arrange refunds etc.

Then just drop the rope and get on with the life you have with your family and friends.
Your eldest daughter may eventually escape from LBs malign clutches, if so you can consider then, how you want to react

I agree. It has puzzled me slightly that they don't sweet talk the OP, to keep the money flowing.

But their cruelty is getting them what they want, and I guess that is why they continue to keep OP dancing to their tune.

Chopinandchampagne · 14/12/2021 16:04

Thank you so much for your kind replies.

Maybe my presents were not well judged, although they were sent with love.

However, I console myself by thinking that they are probably better than the one which they gave to DH for his last birthday, a month before he died - a second hand paperback copy of the Gulag Archipelago by Solzhenitsyn, a story about people perishing in death camps, just what you give to a terminal cancer patient.... Sorry, if that sounds bitter. I am determined not to turn into a bitter and twisted old woman!

OP posts:
Thegreencup · 14/12/2021 16:05

I wouldn't response. Just withdraw for her completely.

Are you sure it is her even sending these messages and not lobster boy?

Shortbread49 · 14/12/2021 16:07

You sound lovely I wish my mum was so kind and caring , good luck xx next time buy the candles and pyjamas for yourself and pamper you

blahblah789 · 14/12/2021 16:10

@Chopinandchampagne

Hi Mum, Hope you are well. Just received a parcel of scented candles..did you order them before we spoke? This is awkward to say but are you able to get a refund on them?

If i'm honest Mum i feel a bit upset. It's kind of you to send us presents, but none of them have been suitable at all. They are the complete opposite of anything we would ever want or need. Now i dont know what to do with them if you cant send them back. I don't know enough people to re gift them. The whole thing has been causing me anxiety to be honest.

I've talked many times of my dislike of fake vegan foods and ive definitely said i don't like perfumed things. I've also said many times that i like us all to only wear natural fibres. The pyjamas were nice but they are synthetic so i will have to exchange them for something else. The gifts are also extravagant and expensive and i dont like thinking you have wasted your money. I would have been happy to have not received any gifts or if you really wanted to give something then something useful that we actually need of which there are many things as you can imagine when moving house.

I don't want to sound ungrateful, I just feel like you don't really know me at all to be honest.

I have just received the above, so upset!

I actually think your daughter has worded her message perfectly and don’t understand why you’re upset. Giving and receiving gifts is such a good way to show how you know know about the other person and that you care about their interests and know what they would like and I’d be massively disappointed if everything my mum sent me was unsuitable or things I’d mentioned not wanting or liking because it shows a complete lack of understanding and interest. I’ve read all the way through this thread and the previous one you linked and you sound quite tiring to placate and get along with. Fully understand the issues with sil but that isn’t the problem, the massive differences in life choices and personalities between you and dd are because neither is interested in understanding the others position. You spoke disparagingly many times about her life choices, for example switching from veganism to meat and butchery and she absolutely would be able to tell how much you judge and disagree with those choices. It wouldn’t surprise me if she didn’t tell you about her marriage and child for so long because she just didn’t want the feeling of being judged on every decision she makes. I seem to be of complete opposite opinion to every other person who’s replied to you but the amount you read into and blow out of proportion would be so tiring to be around and I’d definitely distance myself too
Chopinandchampagne · 14/12/2021 16:10

Shortbread - you are right, I feel like responding that you can regift to me and your sisters!

OP posts:
Noshowlomo · 14/12/2021 16:10

You sound lovely. My mother sometimes gives me things I don’t need or want. I tell her I love them and regift ! It makes her happy to think her family are happy and that’s the normal way to be! DD and LB are so ungrateful and he just wants to live in his own poisoned mind, and poison your DD as well. I’d go NC for now and don’t send anything except cards.

FedUpAtHomeTroels · 14/12/2021 16:11

Stop replying, LB is trying his best to keep you on the back foot and keep you upset. Drumming into Dd1 how you are such a problem to keep her to himself and his unhinged thoughts.
If you step back and leave them to it, she will eventually see him for what he is and by giving him ammo for complaints and stupid emails, you are delaying her from coming to her senses.

FrenchBoule · 14/12/2021 16:17

I’m literally speechless over the message you got.

I’d be asking to send the stuff back even at my cost and get them NOTHING so it wouldn’t cause any “anxiety”and upset.

To turn it around on you and blame your good gesture as causing “anxiety”

So rude. So greedy.So disrespectful.

Absolutely outrageous behaviour 😡😡😡

neverornow · 14/12/2021 16:18

@blahblah789 - I never respond to trolls but absolutely f off you nasty piece of work.

Squeezita · 14/12/2021 16:19

Is there a link to the original Lobster Boy thread or other threads? Or have they been deleted?

Noshowlomo · 14/12/2021 16:20

@neverornow - agree. Ridiculous post.
Or it’s the LB…

blahblah789 · 14/12/2021 16:25

[quote neverornow]@blahblah789 - I never respond to trolls but absolutely f off you nasty piece of work. [/quote]
So you wouldn’t be at all disappointed if your mum revealed that they know absolutely nothing about you by the choice of gifts they sent? I would be. Not because I wasn’t grateful for the money or time that they had spent, but because they either didn’t care enough to learn what I did or didn’t like, or that she knew and completely disregarded it. It’s no different to the posts on here every year like ‘dh got me a toothbrush, I needed one but I’m still disappointed’ posts 🤷🏻‍♀️

REignbow · 14/12/2021 16:25

That message from her was completely unnecessary and horrible!

I agree that they wanted money and this message really proves it. I would answer and tell them to donate/sell/regift and l would not be sending anything to her again.

I appreciate that you have suffered loss, but this is clouding your judgement with you relationship with DD1. She reels you in (love bombs) and then is horrid and manipulative. This is a cycle of abuse.

You need to detach. You need to remain silent and not jump every time they say (when they need more money).

I am sorry, as this must be so difficult. But you have two wonderful and kind daughters that you now need to focus on.

Flowers
Nanny0gg · 14/12/2021 16:26

@Maxiedog123

I would wonder if sending beautiful things like Diptyque candles is too much of a reminder, esp to SIL, of the life she had rather than her present life on a rundown farm with multiple small children and a workshy husband.
Whilst I think she's being vile I do think that this may well be a valid point
blahblah789 · 14/12/2021 16:26

[quote Noshowlomo]@neverornow - agree. Ridiculous post.
Or it’s the LB…[/quote]
He doesn’t sound intelligent enough to string a sentence together so that seems unlikely doesn’t it 😂

MondayTuesdayWednesday · 14/12/2021 16:27

Did you really read the previous thread? The OP’s daughter is more than happy to accept copious amounts of money and have her phone bill paid while having 3 properties and is only nice to the OP when she wants money. She is lucky that the OP gave her any presents at all.

Talking about the message in isolation you may have had a point but without knowing the back story you are not giving it any context.

Frankly, I wouldn’t know what to buy someone who was a vegan one minute and eating squirrels the next.

MondayTuesdayWednesday · 14/12/2021 16:28

My message was in response to @blahblah789 apologies - I thought I had quoted.

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