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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

I don't think I will be allowed to see my new grandchild.

1000 replies

Chopinandchampagne · 13/12/2021 00:27

Some of you may remember my previous threads regarding my relationship with my daughter and SIL.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/4145356-SIL-and-money-issues?msgid=109152806#109152806

It has been a difficult year, following the death of DH, with lots of firsts to get through, but I have just about survived, with a lot of support from DD2 and DD3, DH's family and friends. And, earlier in the year, DD1 told me she was expecting DGS1 in early January. This time she told me very shortly after the pregnancy was confirmed, and was clearly thrilled saying that 'new life' was coming after DH's death. She was delighted to find out that the baby is a boy, as SIL particularly wanted a son, after two daughters.

I had thought that, if there were any positives from DH's death - and it is hard to think of any, as I loved him so much - the family might be reconciled and healed. And I was very happy to hear about the baby, although a bit concerned, given the two previous emergency C sections (although I kept my concerns to myself).

DD1 has now moved to Ireland, having purchased a small holding with her inheritance from DH's aunt, as DH drafted his aunt's will so that his share would go to his DC if he were to predecease her. DD1 had sent me photos of the new property, says how much they love it over there, it feels 'so right' etc. They went for about a month and have now returned to the UK for the birth. I thought all was fine with my relationship with DD1, we were having natural conversations, FaceTimes with DGD1 and DGD2, ending conversations with 'I love you; etc.

I had enjoyed picking out some Christmas presents, which I thought they would enjoy. With the DGDs, I have sent presents which I knew they would appreciate, for DD1 some cashmere hat, gloves, scarf etc, and socks for baby, as I know it will be cold on the small holding, but also a food hamper, chocolates and candles sent jointly to DD1 and SIL, saying with love from Mum etc.

I spoke to DD1 on Friday and I could tell that there was something wrong, as she seemed more tense, less relaxed. She started by saying that she thought I should claim a refund for the hamper, that I had wasted my money, as the ham was too dry and not as good as supermarket ham. I thanked her for letting me know and said I would do so. She said the chocolates had too many additives, so they couldn't eat them (I had chosen dairy and soy free ones, as DGD1 had an allergy to dairy), so I said fine, just regift or donate them. They are generally happy with the DGC's toys, although I shouldn't send anything else. I said I understood, and was conscious that they wouldn't want too much stuff to take back to Ireland.

Then I asked her about how she was feeling and how the 36 week scan had gone. It seems that the baby is small (10th percentile), although appears healthy, but she is very worried about the birth, which is understandable, given the history. She wants a natural birth and is terrified of intervention. She thinks some of the medical staff are horrible and referred to one who asked her last time if she wanted a dead baby on her conscience, after she refused medical advice to have an elective C section. I made reassuring comments. She also said that she might not tell anyone when she went into labour as she didn't want to worry anyone, such as SIL's grandparents (last time she sent me messages before the birth and we spoke afterwards).

We then had a discussion about Ireland. They have run into some problems to do with the Forestry/Agricultural Commission which are preventing them from obtaining a felling licence and flock number, which they need to purchase animals. It seems that not all of the land has been conveyed to them and they have fallen out with the solicitor, whom they feel has been negligent. SIL spent a long time composing a letter and was angry when he only received a brief reply from the solicitor.

Anyway, after all that, I said that I and her sisters were looking forward to seeing the baby, especially after not seeing DGD1 as a baby, and DGD2 because of lockdown. She went a bit quiet and was non committal just saying Mmm, we'll see, I need to have the baby first. I pressed the point and she said 'SIL is my husband'. I said 'Yes, I know'. She said that I had tried to make her feel guilty over her treatment of DH and that she didn't feel guilty. She repeated this and then said that I had said that I was going to write SIL a letter in the summer and that it might now be too late. I was genuinely taken aback by this.

For context, before I visited in the summer, we had a heated conversation where I said that she had hurt DH (and me) by not telling him about the birth of DGD1 for 14 months or her marriage and by moving without telling us. I admit I was angry as I felt that DH had been cheated of precious time with his granddaughter, although I said that I knew she hadn't known that he was going to die. I said that I thought that she had been emotionally abusive in 'ghosting' us and I didn't want to form an attachment to my DGCs if there was a risk of it happening again. It would just be too painful. It made me afraid of loving them as I would wish to. DD1 had referred then to the incident, some years before, where I had made SIL leave my house (they weren't married then), as I felt he was bullying her. I said that it was all a long time ago and that 'Dad didn't do anything wrong, did he?', to which she replied 'No'. She said that SIL had told her not to be in contact.

I subsequently said, in another conversation, that I had been angry, but that I wasn't any longer, and that it would be nice if we could go out to lunch together, just the two of us, when I visited, and to start rebuilding our relationship. I duly visited, had what I thought was a very pleasant day with the family at a local attraction, then lunch with DD1 then next day. I said I thought that the previous day had gone well and she said that SIL had told her that he did not want me to visit too often (this was the first time I had visited since DH's funeral). I said that I was sorry to hear this and was there some way of resolving matters; that the 'incident' was all a long time ago, that it was time to move on, and that DH's death put disagreements into context. She said maybe I should say that to SIL and it was him I should be taking out or talking to. I said I would be happy to talk to him, but I doubted that he would want to go out with me, maybe I should write him a letter. So I floated the idea of a letter in a private conversation with DD1, but did not say that I was definitely going to write one and, upon reflection, I thought that it might be too much of a hostage to fortune.

During this lunch, which was mostly pleasant, and focusing on neutral topics, DD1 repeated again that she had cut us off because SIL had told her to, that she had had to choose and would always choose SIL. I said that I had made SIL leave my house on that occasion because I was trying to protect her, especially given her previous abusive relationship. She said she had not told SIL about this ie the previous relationship and she was not sure if she would behave in the same way as I did. She said she appreciated that I did not know that she would marry SIL at the time. I said that I understood that, in the final analysis, she would and should put her family first, but I thought she should also have some loyalty to her original family. After that, we returned to everyday topics and I thought we had both had a pleasant lunch, 'cleared the air', and that we were moving forward in rebuilding our relationship. However, it seems I was wrong.

When we returned to the house after lunch (for me to call a taxi back to the hotel), SIL went off to his workshop without speaking to me or saying goodbye. I went to the workshop and said goodbye and gave him a hug. I found it a gruelling trip without DH but went away thinking it had gone well.

Anyway, back to the present, I was blindsided by DD1's comments in the conversation to the effect that I should have written a letter and that it might be 'too late'. I said what did she think I should say in the letter. I said that it was all so long ago, that I had apologised to SIL, that we had met since then at DD1's 21st, that he had said we were 'ok'.DD1 said she didn't want anything that would upset her after the birth. I said that I would never do anything to upset her after the birth. I said that I was nice to SIL, praised him for his DIY skills and as a father, that I behaved in a civilised fashion, sent him cards and gifts, what more could I do, I couldn't make him like me. At this stage DD1 was clearly agitated and said she had to go and that she would speak to me another time. I said 'Alright darling, good bye'.

So I feel both devastated and empty at the same time. I had thought, after the most hellish two years, when I had to watch my beloved DH die and then lose his aunt, whom I was close to. When, more recently, my MIL nearly died, my sister in law has had major surgery, and I have lost one of my closest friends (the funeral is this week), I had thought that I had just about survived. I keep giving myself a talking to, saying come on, just one more step forward, nearly there, nearly the end of the year. And now this.

I apologise for the length of this post, but I would be grateful for any advice as to how handle the situation. Part of just feels like giving up, but I obviously don't want to lose DD1 again, and I am worried about the birth of DGS and would have wanted to be a support, not an aggravating factor.

OP posts:
kittykarate · 03/02/2022 18:46

I've never wanted to post the Admiral Ackbar "ITS A TRAP" meme so much. This card is designed to suck you back in so you can be kicked again.

Bendyrabbit · 03/02/2022 18:49

Such a shattering message from them. I’m so sorry this has come to you when you were finding some peace.
Echoing other wider posters, please try not to respond for a few days and then something bright and cheerful. The truth will out one day. Flowers

Bendyrabbit · 03/02/2022 18:49

Wiser, not wider posters obviously

Lanique · 03/02/2022 19:28

Chopin I have been quietly following this thread, and while I have no further advice that that which has already been given by the wonderful posters already supporting you, I just wanted to wish you well and offer you a little solidarity. What a complicated and head messing situation, you have my most profound sympathies.

Funnily enough I thought of you the other day, as I met a woman on a dog walk who is going through a very similar situation with her dd, who has also become almost estranged from her, and is not allowing her to see her gcs. In her case, the Dh has become fervently religious, so much so that he has either become (or is planning to become) ordained as a minister. I could see the utter pain, bewilderment and powerlessness that the woman was facing, and it really struck me how terrible you must be feeling, especially against the backdrop of your Dh passing away.

Sending you lots of love ThanksThanks

LorthernNights · 03/02/2022 20:01

Goodness that must have stung!

I agree though don’t fall into their trap . Ignore - it was a really really weird thing for them to do anyway .

I’m so sorry you are facing such a tough time with all the “anniversaries” . Surround yourself with your 2 lovely daughters.

💐💐💐💐

tribpot · 03/02/2022 20:24

Totally agree with @kittykarate, Admiral Ackbar "it's a trap" indeed.

Think about the situation he has engineered. He has never told you himself that you cannot visit. DD1 has hinted at it - from your opening post - She went a bit quiet and was non committal just saying Mmm, we'll see, I need to have the baby first. I pressed the point and she said '[LB] is my husband'. I said 'Yes, I know'.. If you call his parents and give your version of the story, there is ample wiggle room in what has actually been said for him to claim it's all a misunderstanding, he never said anything at all and you're trying to blame him, etc etc.

His parents are clearly being flying monkeys, I would guess he's told them that DD1 is upset you haven't been to visit and they said they would write to 'encourage' you.

It is 100% a trap. You are starving them of drama and you haven't offered them any money despite DD1 being nice to you. I think this is the start of another cycle of nasty to see if that will work instead.

Newestname002 · 03/02/2022 20:47

@kittykarate

I've never wanted to post the Admiral Ackbar "ITS A TRAP" meme so much. This card is designed to suck you back in so you can be kicked again.

Yes, I'm afraid I also think it's a trap. Go carefully, @Chopinandchampagne 🌹

RandomMess · 03/02/2022 20:51

The PIL sending you a card is just utterly bizarre on every level.

SirVixofVixHall · 03/02/2022 22:03

@tribpot

Totally agree with *@kittykarate*, Admiral Ackbar "it's a trap" indeed.

Think about the situation he has engineered. He has never told you himself that you cannot visit. DD1 has hinted at it - from your opening post - She went a bit quiet and was non committal just saying Mmm, we'll see, I need to have the baby first. I pressed the point and she said '[LB] is my husband'. I said 'Yes, I know'.. If you call his parents and give your version of the story, there is ample wiggle room in what has actually been said for him to claim it's all a misunderstanding, he never said anything at all and you're trying to blame him, etc etc.

His parents are clearly being flying monkeys, I would guess he's told them that DD1 is upset you haven't been to visit and they said they would write to 'encourage' you.

It is 100% a trap. You are starving them of drama and you haven't offered them any money despite DD1 being nice to you. I think this is the start of another cycle of nasty to see if that will work instead.

Having taken a bit more time to mull it over I agree with this . And also agree it is very weird. It is a mix of gloating and strangely pushy. Even if they think you have chosen not to visit it is very odd to try and persuade an adult who you don’t know to do something that they evidently either can’t or don’t want to do.
CaperCaper · 03/02/2022 23:21

Hey Chopin, I have followed your story and really feel for you. This is most certainly a move from LB to provoke response.

I agree with others here that you need to keep any reply vague. I'd go bright and breezy just a few lines...'so lovely of LB's parents to be in touch, isn't it wonderful, nice that new baby is named after DH, so happy for DD and LB, you hope they are keeping well'. Say nothing about visiting.

I think they either know full well you can't visit OR they suspect it strongly because they know their son OR they created this monster and are part of the problem. On this basis don't feed the monkeys at the zoo. This is a provocation- refuse to be provoked!

PearPickingPorky · 04/02/2022 00:24

If you feel you have to reply, then a "such wonderful news, he looks adorable, so relieved DD and DGS are well, 3 absolutely beautiful children"... something like that. Don't engage. What their awful son has done to you isn't a suitable conversation for the moment.

Maxiedog123 · 04/02/2022 01:52

Dear Chopin. So sorry for your heartache. I have followed your story but not posted before.
I recall some time ago a comment regarding DDs FIL that made me think " So that's where he gets it from". Tread carefully.

danny735 · 04/02/2022 04:29

Oh Chopin,

I can see what lovely person you are because you only see the good in PIL.

Unfortunately, despite what might appear at surface level, they are very unlikely to be kind, content, emotionally stable people. What @ESGdance said is entirely correct.

People from highly dysfunctional families are almost obsessed with "putting on a show" that everything is perfect. That was the phrase my cousin always used for how my deeply dysfunctional family would "perform" for the outside world.

My parents constantly obsessed over "What will the neighbours think?".

PIL will want to project an image of a happy family. This could be very far from the reality. They raised LB, they know what he is.

This is a trap. Don't fall into it. Don't respond. They are not your friends. Their opinion of you does lot matter - you know your truth and that's enough.

Sending best wishes at this difficult time. X

Chopinandchampagne · 04/02/2022 08:19

Thank you so much for all of the advice. You are bright rays of sunshine piercing the clouds which seem to envelop me. I am so grateful to have some objectivity, as my brain feels so foggy at present, that I just can't think straight.

Experience has taught me that, when I feel like this, it is better to do nothing. I also keep quoting to myself the mantra that, if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all. I know that if I respond when I am angry and upset, it never ends well. Also, if I respond to provocation and say something which they perceive as unpleasant, they will become defensive and it gives them the excuse to vilify me. Even DD must realise that LB is being unreasonable at present, so I don't want to supply any ammunition for him to use against me and present himself as reasonable. He will then persuade DD that his actions are to protect her, as this is his usual MO, and she believes him. She regards him as the one, above all others, who loves and protects her, who has her best interests at heart.

Regarding the PIL, I have met them once, for coffee, when we visited DD just under two years ago, which was shortly after DH's diagnosis. In fact, they contacted us at the hotel where we were staying, to say that they would like to see us. I had previously suggested a meeting to DD and LB, but LB was vehemently opposed to this, presumably because at some level he knows that they would disapprove of his behaviour. When we did meet them, they seemed pleasant enough, and I know that they have been supportive to DD, for example after the births of the DGC, for which I am grateful.They also advised DD and LB to tell us about the birth of DGD1.

So I am inclined to take the card at face value, although it has caused me pain, like picking the newly formed scab from a wound. I think that LB's mother means well, but is not the most tactful person. When DH and I met her and her DH, virtually the first thing she said was that she knew someone with the same type of cancer as DH. So, of course, you say how are they, don't you, to which the response was that they had died. She also said two or three times that DD was like a daughter to her, which was a bit hurtful, and what a lovely family DD and LB and their DC were, and how they could achieve anything. I just smiled and nodded and I suspect that the PIL were a bit nervous about the meeting. I know I certainly was. DD says that LB's father and grandfather are like LB in that they are both recluses, who prefer not to see anyone, but he and MIL were perfectly pleasant at the meeting.

They subsequently sent flowers after DH died and I would probably have seen them in the summer, but their dog was terminally ill. I sent flowers when she died and I rang to say how sorry I was, as I know how devastating it can be to lose a much loved family pet. So I don't think that this card was sent to me, in order to gloat, or at LB's instigation. I think that they probably feel sorry for me and are trying to make me feel included. They are also probably curious why I haven't already visited. I expect they have been asking questions, and LB and DD have said that I have been away on trips etc.

I won't reply at all until I am completely calm and composed, but I do intend to disabuse them of the fact that I have not visited because I have been travelling elsewhere. So I will probably just send a bright and breezy response, as suggested, and say that I had a couple of UK breaks last summer and that I am planning a trip to Africa in July, what are their plans etc. I am in two minds as to whether I should say that I am just waiting for an invitation to visit, as soon as DD has recovered from the birth, but I won't say more than that.

I also think that I should send a message to DD asking whether or not the parcel arrived and asking when I can visit, or simply saying that I would like to visit her and the new baby and the rest of the family. I suspect that she will just ignore me, which will be hurtful, but I will steel myself for rejection. Otherwise, as some posters have said, they will tell the PIL that I didn't ask to visit, which conveys the impression that I can't be bothered. DD will also come to believe that herself.

So my proposed strategy is to send short, pleasant and inoffensive messages to both DD and the PIL. But I will hold off until I am absolutely clear about what to say, as there is potential for anything I say or do to backfire and cause further trouble. LB is quite capable of cutting off his own DP, if they cease to be useful.

In the meantime, DH's sister FaceTimed me last night to say that my MIL is very frail and may not make it to her 90th birthday next month. She is going to try to FaceTime me and DD2 and DD3 when she visits her today. Needless to say, DD1 has not enquired after her DGM...

OP posts:
Billybagpuss · 04/02/2022 08:30

In the meantime, DH's sister FaceTimed me last night to say that my MIL is very frail and may not make it to her 90th birthday next month. She is going to try to FaceTime me and DD2 and DD3 when she visits her today. Needless to say, DD1 has not enquired after her DGM

I’m so sorry you’re having to deal with this too. I hope dd doesn’t pick up interest if she believes more inheritance due?

I agree with asking about the package and the possibility of a visit, but it does leave you open to hoop jumping again. If she agrees don’t let them mess you around be very firm with your availability, maybe give her a choice of dates you’re free and stick to them. If they subsequently cancel just back away graciously with an oh that’s a shame I would have loved to meet him.

billy1966 · 04/02/2022 08:47

OP,
If you feel you have to enquire about a visit to cover yourself, you could frame it as " I appreciate that you both must be so busy with the children, would you like me to visit? Absolutely no problem if the timing isn't good. Let me know when might be a good time, but as I wrote, absolutely no pressure at all."

I would put it firmly back on THEM, whilst remaining very upbeat.

Don't give him oxygen or power.

Your daughter will do what suits her best in all of this.

Flowers
Cavagirl · 04/02/2022 08:49

I also think that I should send a message to DD asking whether or not the parcel arrived and asking when I can visit, or simply saying that I would like to visit her and the new baby and the rest of the family. I suspect that she will just ignore me, which will be hurtful, but I will steel myself for rejection. Otherwise, as some posters have said, they will tell the PIL that I didn't ask to visit, which conveys the impression that I can't be bothered. DD will also come to believe that herself.

Why do you care what PIL think? Isn't protecting yourself more important?

The card has had the effect it was intended to IMO - it's shaken your core resolve of Grey Rock and now you're considering actions that two days ago you'd have never considered, because you've been (deliberately) exposed to a competing view of GPs and their relationship with your DD1 and DGCs. Please take some more time to consider your response, if any. Things will feel very different after a few more days.

It doesn't matter if her PILs think you are the wicked witch who doesn't visit. It doesn't matter if they believe you live on the moon. It doesn't matter.

And absolutely agree with PP saying the apple doesn't fall far from the tree - it can be no coincidence that LB is how he is. You always see the best in people Chopin, but in this case I think you'd do well to put some cynical glasses on.

DD1 knows you want to visit her, you can easily make that point in your next call without asking in case you want to avoid any doubt on her part "well of course I'm so looking forward to meeting him one day when you're ready" if that would make you feel more comfortable.

Please please prioritise getting a new therapist!Flowers

Chopinandchampagne · 04/02/2022 08:53

Thanks Billy. I am now thinking that a better form of wording to the PIL would be 'I would very much like to visit etc, but I don't know if it will be possible', which doesn't blame anyone, but leaves them to draw their own inferences.

Maybe, to DD, I should say something along the lines of 'I would very much like to visit but I understand that this may not be possible' ? Or is that letting her off the hook too easily? Also, if LB reads it, which he will, he will know that DD has spoken to me previously, and that might cause trouble for her. He probably can't understand why I am not already begging to come.

Oh, I don't know - save that I am spending too much headspace on this. I don't even really want to go, I don't think. It would just be too awkward and stressful, and I don't think I would cope very well with the journey and the tension. I feel quite fragile at present. I just want to weather this storm and kick the can down the road.

And yes, I am upset about MIL but, to be honest, she is ready to go. She lost her DH 17 years ago and never fully recovered, then her beloved elder brother, but losing DH was the last straw. She adored him and has been a broken woman since he died - and she used to be so strong. They said goodbye by FaceTime at the hospital, it was heart breaking, she said he would soon be with his DF.

But there won't be any inheritance. All her savings were used up in care fees long ago. She lives in a flat in central London, owned by her daughter, who lives close by. SIL could rent out the flat for a considerable sum - she originally bought it to let out - but she prefers that her mother lives there. The family pay the care fees (MIL has a live in carer) and SIL visits every day - or at least she did until MIL went into hospital. SIL is still paying the carers, so that they will be available if MIL returns to the flat, although this now seems unlikely. DH once said that his sister would never have behaved as DD has, and he never said anything bad about anyone, but I know how deeply disappointed he was.

DD3 and I were discussing having a 90th birthday party for her DGM only a few days ago. DD3 adores her granny. I suggested inviting DD1; but DD3 said no, she would only spoil it, create drama etc. I don't suppose she would come anyway.

OP posts:
ESGdance · 04/02/2022 09:00

Please don’t ask DD to visit - this is a HUGE learning opportunity for her.

Let HER sit in the discomfort.

Please don’t ask if the package has arrived - you know it has - “gifts” are one of their games.

Don’t play it.

Please don’t respond to the PIL at all - they are complicit in this.

It’s the FIL and his enabling wife.

Doing any of these will undermine everything you have achieved.

Sit on your hands and bite your tongue.

Do anything and everything to not be drawn into this trap.

See it as a development opportunity for your DD.

SHE needs to feel what he is making her do.

ESGdance · 04/02/2022 09:06

@Cavagirl

I also think that I should send a message to DD asking whether or not the parcel arrived and asking when I can visit, or simply saying that I would like to visit her and the new baby and the rest of the family. I suspect that she will just ignore me, which will be hurtful, but I will steel myself for rejection. Otherwise, as some posters have said, they will tell the PIL that I didn't ask to visit, which conveys the impression that I can't be bothered. DD will also come to believe that herself.

Why do you care what PIL think? Isn't protecting yourself more important?

The card has had the effect it was intended to IMO - it's shaken your core resolve of Grey Rock and now you're considering actions that two days ago you'd have never considered, because you've been (deliberately) exposed to a competing view of GPs and their relationship with your DD1 and DGCs. Please take some more time to consider your response, if any. Things will feel very different after a few more days.

It doesn't matter if her PILs think you are the wicked witch who doesn't visit. It doesn't matter if they believe you live on the moon. It doesn't matter.

And absolutely agree with PP saying the apple doesn't fall far from the tree - it can be no coincidence that LB is how he is. You always see the best in people Chopin, but in this case I think you'd do well to put some cynical glasses on.

DD1 knows you want to visit her, you can easily make that point in your next call without asking in case you want to avoid any doubt on her part "well of course I'm so looking forward to meeting him one day when you're ready" if that would make you feel more comfortable.

Please please prioritise getting a new therapist!Flowers

Agree with this 100%

They have rattled you to consider taking the wrong reactive action.

Don’t even think of a response for at least a week.

Our rational brains are not switched on when we are upset.

Concentrate on your DD2/3 and MIL.

PD are due to relational trauma in childhood.

The GF and FIL are nasty.

Peridot1 · 04/02/2022 09:22

Chopin I too have followed your threads and I am so sorry that you are being tormented so much by LB and your DD.

I think a non commital response to the ILs once you are calm is a good idea.

I wouldn’t contact DD just yet. You have sent a gift. She knows you would want to see her and the new baby. She sent those hurtful messages about previous gifts so just wait for her to contact you.

A few people up the thread mentioned she is possibly in an abusive marriage and I would agree. I know others feel she is being equally nasty and I agree but it could be due to the pressure she is under from LB. She comes across as grasping and mercenary and it could well be a form of Stockholm syndrome. He has her so convinced he is right that it’s hard or impossible for her to think differently.

I know it’s not definite that this is all the case but it is a possibility.

I wondered if you could raise the issue with her in a conversation when you know she is alone. Along the lines of “DD I have something to say that I just want you to listen to and reflect on. You don’t need to comment. I am concerned that you may be in an abusive relationship. Both you and LB have punished me for something that any parent would have done trying to protect their child. Since then LB has isolated you from your sisters, your parents and your friends. He took you from hospital against medical advice after a c section. He has now persuaded you to isolate you and the children further by taking them to Ireland. Please just think about all of this. Please know that as your mother I will always be there to help you leave if you ever decide to do so. You don’t need to say anything now. I just wanted you to know that I love you and worry about you and I will always help you and the children if necessary. I may well be wrong and I hope I am but I felt I needed to say this.”

Wiser posters may think that this isn’t a good idea but I thought it was worth suggesting. I would be interested in reading their thoughts on my suggestion.

Peridot1 · 04/02/2022 09:23

I posted before reading your most recent post.

Billybagpuss · 04/02/2022 09:26

I don't even really want to go, I don't think. It would just be too awkward and stressful, and I don't think I would cope very well with the journey and the tension. I feel quite fragile at present. I just want to weather this storm and kick the can down the road

There’s your answer right there.

They can not string every emotion out of you, hang you out to dry and expect you to still be champing at the bit for more. If you accept this feeling you have right now it will be liberating for you.

Keep the line of communication open, as you have been.
Make sure she knows your door is always open, as you have been.

You will become bullet proof.

If DD wants to see you, she knows where you live, it’s a meeting between mother and daughter not an audience with the queen that’s a privilege to be granted.

Ask if she received the package but leave it to her to mention a visit. Who cares what mil think, they know you were excluded from her life, you don’t know what they were told about this. Their opinion is irrelevant.

ImJustMadAboutSaffron · 04/02/2022 09:27

This is so long I can't trawl (no pun intended) through it, but why is the guy called Lobster Boy? I'm curious.

Billybagpuss · 04/02/2022 09:29

I wondered if you could raise the issue with her in a conversation when you know she is alone. Along the lines of “DD I have something to say that I just want you to listen to and reflect on. You don’t need to comment. I am concerned that you may be in an abusive relationship. Both you and LB have punished me for something that any parent would have done trying to protect their child. Since then LB has isolated you from your sisters, your parents and your friends. He took you from hospital against medical advice after a c section. He has now persuaded you to isolate you and the children further by taking them to Ireland. Please just think about all of this. Please know that as your mother I will always be there to help you leave if you ever decide to do so. You don’t need to say anything now. I just wanted you to know that I love you and worry about you and I will always help you and the children if necessary. I may well be wrong and I hope I am but I felt I needed to say

@Peridot1 I think chopin did say similar in a previous thread, although not in as much detail and more focus on their treatment of her, it didn’t end well.

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