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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

I don't think I will be allowed to see my new grandchild.

1000 replies

Chopinandchampagne · 13/12/2021 00:27

Some of you may remember my previous threads regarding my relationship with my daughter and SIL.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/4145356-SIL-and-money-issues?msgid=109152806#109152806

It has been a difficult year, following the death of DH, with lots of firsts to get through, but I have just about survived, with a lot of support from DD2 and DD3, DH's family and friends. And, earlier in the year, DD1 told me she was expecting DGS1 in early January. This time she told me very shortly after the pregnancy was confirmed, and was clearly thrilled saying that 'new life' was coming after DH's death. She was delighted to find out that the baby is a boy, as SIL particularly wanted a son, after two daughters.

I had thought that, if there were any positives from DH's death - and it is hard to think of any, as I loved him so much - the family might be reconciled and healed. And I was very happy to hear about the baby, although a bit concerned, given the two previous emergency C sections (although I kept my concerns to myself).

DD1 has now moved to Ireland, having purchased a small holding with her inheritance from DH's aunt, as DH drafted his aunt's will so that his share would go to his DC if he were to predecease her. DD1 had sent me photos of the new property, says how much they love it over there, it feels 'so right' etc. They went for about a month and have now returned to the UK for the birth. I thought all was fine with my relationship with DD1, we were having natural conversations, FaceTimes with DGD1 and DGD2, ending conversations with 'I love you; etc.

I had enjoyed picking out some Christmas presents, which I thought they would enjoy. With the DGDs, I have sent presents which I knew they would appreciate, for DD1 some cashmere hat, gloves, scarf etc, and socks for baby, as I know it will be cold on the small holding, but also a food hamper, chocolates and candles sent jointly to DD1 and SIL, saying with love from Mum etc.

I spoke to DD1 on Friday and I could tell that there was something wrong, as she seemed more tense, less relaxed. She started by saying that she thought I should claim a refund for the hamper, that I had wasted my money, as the ham was too dry and not as good as supermarket ham. I thanked her for letting me know and said I would do so. She said the chocolates had too many additives, so they couldn't eat them (I had chosen dairy and soy free ones, as DGD1 had an allergy to dairy), so I said fine, just regift or donate them. They are generally happy with the DGC's toys, although I shouldn't send anything else. I said I understood, and was conscious that they wouldn't want too much stuff to take back to Ireland.

Then I asked her about how she was feeling and how the 36 week scan had gone. It seems that the baby is small (10th percentile), although appears healthy, but she is very worried about the birth, which is understandable, given the history. She wants a natural birth and is terrified of intervention. She thinks some of the medical staff are horrible and referred to one who asked her last time if she wanted a dead baby on her conscience, after she refused medical advice to have an elective C section. I made reassuring comments. She also said that she might not tell anyone when she went into labour as she didn't want to worry anyone, such as SIL's grandparents (last time she sent me messages before the birth and we spoke afterwards).

We then had a discussion about Ireland. They have run into some problems to do with the Forestry/Agricultural Commission which are preventing them from obtaining a felling licence and flock number, which they need to purchase animals. It seems that not all of the land has been conveyed to them and they have fallen out with the solicitor, whom they feel has been negligent. SIL spent a long time composing a letter and was angry when he only received a brief reply from the solicitor.

Anyway, after all that, I said that I and her sisters were looking forward to seeing the baby, especially after not seeing DGD1 as a baby, and DGD2 because of lockdown. She went a bit quiet and was non committal just saying Mmm, we'll see, I need to have the baby first. I pressed the point and she said 'SIL is my husband'. I said 'Yes, I know'. She said that I had tried to make her feel guilty over her treatment of DH and that she didn't feel guilty. She repeated this and then said that I had said that I was going to write SIL a letter in the summer and that it might now be too late. I was genuinely taken aback by this.

For context, before I visited in the summer, we had a heated conversation where I said that she had hurt DH (and me) by not telling him about the birth of DGD1 for 14 months or her marriage and by moving without telling us. I admit I was angry as I felt that DH had been cheated of precious time with his granddaughter, although I said that I knew she hadn't known that he was going to die. I said that I thought that she had been emotionally abusive in 'ghosting' us and I didn't want to form an attachment to my DGCs if there was a risk of it happening again. It would just be too painful. It made me afraid of loving them as I would wish to. DD1 had referred then to the incident, some years before, where I had made SIL leave my house (they weren't married then), as I felt he was bullying her. I said that it was all a long time ago and that 'Dad didn't do anything wrong, did he?', to which she replied 'No'. She said that SIL had told her not to be in contact.

I subsequently said, in another conversation, that I had been angry, but that I wasn't any longer, and that it would be nice if we could go out to lunch together, just the two of us, when I visited, and to start rebuilding our relationship. I duly visited, had what I thought was a very pleasant day with the family at a local attraction, then lunch with DD1 then next day. I said I thought that the previous day had gone well and she said that SIL had told her that he did not want me to visit too often (this was the first time I had visited since DH's funeral). I said that I was sorry to hear this and was there some way of resolving matters; that the 'incident' was all a long time ago, that it was time to move on, and that DH's death put disagreements into context. She said maybe I should say that to SIL and it was him I should be taking out or talking to. I said I would be happy to talk to him, but I doubted that he would want to go out with me, maybe I should write him a letter. So I floated the idea of a letter in a private conversation with DD1, but did not say that I was definitely going to write one and, upon reflection, I thought that it might be too much of a hostage to fortune.

During this lunch, which was mostly pleasant, and focusing on neutral topics, DD1 repeated again that she had cut us off because SIL had told her to, that she had had to choose and would always choose SIL. I said that I had made SIL leave my house on that occasion because I was trying to protect her, especially given her previous abusive relationship. She said she had not told SIL about this ie the previous relationship and she was not sure if she would behave in the same way as I did. She said she appreciated that I did not know that she would marry SIL at the time. I said that I understood that, in the final analysis, she would and should put her family first, but I thought she should also have some loyalty to her original family. After that, we returned to everyday topics and I thought we had both had a pleasant lunch, 'cleared the air', and that we were moving forward in rebuilding our relationship. However, it seems I was wrong.

When we returned to the house after lunch (for me to call a taxi back to the hotel), SIL went off to his workshop without speaking to me or saying goodbye. I went to the workshop and said goodbye and gave him a hug. I found it a gruelling trip without DH but went away thinking it had gone well.

Anyway, back to the present, I was blindsided by DD1's comments in the conversation to the effect that I should have written a letter and that it might be 'too late'. I said what did she think I should say in the letter. I said that it was all so long ago, that I had apologised to SIL, that we had met since then at DD1's 21st, that he had said we were 'ok'.DD1 said she didn't want anything that would upset her after the birth. I said that I would never do anything to upset her after the birth. I said that I was nice to SIL, praised him for his DIY skills and as a father, that I behaved in a civilised fashion, sent him cards and gifts, what more could I do, I couldn't make him like me. At this stage DD1 was clearly agitated and said she had to go and that she would speak to me another time. I said 'Alright darling, good bye'.

So I feel both devastated and empty at the same time. I had thought, after the most hellish two years, when I had to watch my beloved DH die and then lose his aunt, whom I was close to. When, more recently, my MIL nearly died, my sister in law has had major surgery, and I have lost one of my closest friends (the funeral is this week), I had thought that I had just about survived. I keep giving myself a talking to, saying come on, just one more step forward, nearly there, nearly the end of the year. And now this.

I apologise for the length of this post, but I would be grateful for any advice as to how handle the situation. Part of just feels like giving up, but I obviously don't want to lose DD1 again, and I am worried about the birth of DGS and would have wanted to be a support, not an aggravating factor.

OP posts:
DartmoorDoughnut · 24/01/2022 20:44

Congrats to you and DD and the family on DGS safe arrival Grin

Hope you’re feeling ok Gin

Mix56 · 25/01/2022 12:50

Oh God, they make bad choices then blame everybody, or anybody else.
Every, single, time.
You can see the pattern.
Starting with him behaving badly in your home, then blaming you.
They forced purchase on a dodgy property in Ireland, & are now blaming the solicitor
They refused repeatedly medical advice on this pregnancy/birth, & now are blaming the doctor for something.
Hey Ho, not Your circus..... Do not get involved, & do not send money

BorsetshireBanality · 25/01/2022 13:35

Congratulations on the safe arrival of your DGS.

UserBot999 · 25/01/2022 17:28

yes LB told chopin that the birth was straightforward, the baby is fine! What's the point suing? 🤔

Ohfortheloveofgodwhatnow · 26/01/2022 10:12

That’s great news! So glad your DGS has arrived safely @Chopinandchampagne
Flowers

Marylou62 · 27/01/2022 16:10

Congratulations on the safe arrival of your GS... From a lurker who can add nothing that hasn't already been said by some great people on this thread...

Chopinandchampagne · 28/01/2022 07:27

Thank you very much for your messages, both on this thread and privately, which are greatly appreciated.

I do think that I am handling things better, and I now make sure that I only communicate with DD1 when I am feeling positive. Which isn't to say that I don't have days when I feel negative, but I make sure to refrain from any messages or calls then, and try to distract myself. I have decided that the way forward is to be realistic and to accept that my relationship with DD, and certainly with the DGC, is not what I would have wished for in an ideal world. Having said that, my relationship with DD1 is actually very good at present, within its limitations. When she is not under pressure from LB to behave in a particular way, she is much more relaxed and natural, her old loving self.

We had a FaceTime yesterday, so I could see her and baby (still no sign of the DGDs but she inevitably has DGS with her all of the time). She was very happy and proud of herself for giving birth naturally and, I think, massively relieved. She is clearly besotted with DGS and is in that lovely, intense new born phase, when they are bonding. They are back at the house and she said that they will be staying in the UK for a few more weeks. I didn't mention visiting and nor did she, and I think she was probably relieved that I haven't made it any sort of an issue.

I suspect that LB just about tolerates her having telephone contact with me, but doesn't want to see me again or for me to see his children again or to have a relationship with them. I am obviously very disappointed but, by stepping back, I think that the situation will be better in the medium to long term. And it wouldn't have been either a pleasant journey, without DH, or a good experience, as I have no doubt that the visit would have been very tense. LB would find new things to criticise or reasons for me to be forever banished. At least this way I am in touch with DD, although I do worry that he will tighten his grip when they go back to Ireland.

Anyway, it was good to see DD and DGS, apparently safe and well, as I was concerned about DGS in particular, after DD had mentioned her 'problem' with the paediatrician. DD said that the reason that she is going to complain about the paediatrician is that she threatened DD with safeguarding procedures, as DD wouldn't agree to DGS having antibiotics when he was born, contrary to medical advice. DD said that she had allowed blood tests to be carried out and wouldn't agree to anything until the results were back, which took a couple of days. DD thinks that the paediatrician behaved very badly and unprofessionally, but was probably influenced by DD's notes and medical history and previous refusal to take advice. However, fortunately, DD and DGS are well. DD was pleased that it was a natural birth, as it was more 'interesting' for LB to share......!

Some time ago, I had bought DGS a special Steiff Rupert Bear, limited edition, but given what happened with the Christmas presents, I asked DD if it was alright to send it, together with some books for the girls, so they wouldn't feel left out. And she was fine with that. With hindsight, I think that the problem with the Christmas presents was that it was an open goal in terms of providing LB with a golden opportunity to criticise me for wastefulness, bad taste, not knowing what they liked, and not contributing anything useful. I expect that he upset DD with his adverse comments, and her stress was the deflected onto me. I won't make that mistake again. I remain a bit upset by the incident, but at least I can now see why she reacted as she did. As DD3 said, DD1 was not brought up like that.

I actually feel relieved now that I know that I will not be visiting, as I don't want to put myself through the stress of engaging in a battle which I cannot win. The more I step back, the easier it is becoming, and the more I understand the dynamic or, at least, I think I do. Hopefully, DD will see it too, as time passes, although she seems to have accepted that it is up to LB what relationship, if any, she has with her family, which I find hurtful. However, I must focus on the positives and be realistic as to what is achievable, rather than chasing what is not.

Also on the positive side, DD2 has sent a message of congratulations to DD1, who has sent her photos of the baby. DD2 had also bought some wooden games for the DGDs, in a favourite local charity shop, but in perfect condition, which I have included with the other gifts, so hopefully that relationship is slowly improving. DD1 and DD2 used to be very close until LB sabotaged DD3's graduation (which was the subject of an earlier thread). I am sure that DD1 would like to rebuild links with the family, especially after the loss of DH but, again, there will inevitably be limitations on this.

UserBot999 - thank you for the recommendation for Teal Swan, whom I hadn't heard of before. I have watched a couple of the videos, which I found helpful.

RandomMess - thank you for your helpful comments. Sometimes, I think LB might be more forgiving if he knew about DD1's previous abusive relationship, so that at least he would have understood the context a bit more. DD1 said that she has not shared this information with LB and clearly doesn't intend to. I am slightly surprised by this, as she confided in her previous boyfriend, who was very understanding.

In response to your question, I have got as far as checking out new therapists and there is one nearby who sounds promising, although it doesn't really matter about location, now that everything is by Zoom. She offers a free initial half hour, to see if it is a 'fit', which I think is a good sign, so I just need to pluck up my courage and go for it. I was thinking of trying to find someone who understands Paranoid Personality Disorder but, of course, when you search, it brings up recommendations on the basis that the person consulting them will be the one with the personality disorder etc.

ESGdance - thank you for your lovely, supportive message.

Sorry, this is another long one!

OP posts:
Billybagpuss · 28/01/2022 09:57

Well done Chopin there is a calmness and a strength in your post that I don’t think I’ve ever seen. It will see you through this. 💐

legosnowqueen · 28/01/2022 12:33

Thanks for updating us @Chopinandchampagne it sounds as if things are going well. However, I have to say when I read your calm acceptance of having no expectation of seeing DD1 & meeting your new DGS I felt so angry & sad that you are being denied this. Don't get me wrong, I think your approach & acceptance is the only feasible approach but damn that LB...

LadyEloise1 · 28/01/2022 12:49

I echo @legosnowqueen - your having to accept that you will not see DD1 or your new grandchild is heartbreaking but necessary.
Stay strong.
Softly softly catch ye...........
Play it right and she will be back.
But it will take time, possibly a long time.
I hope the therapist works out.
What a lovely Mum you are. Star

SirVixofVixHall · 28/01/2022 13:03

You have done the right thing OP.
I found it heartbreaking reading about your dd showing you the baby over Facetime, and being in the country, but not asking you to visit. I think that is really quite cruel. It is about bloody time she stood up to that absolutely horrible man and got on a train to visit you.
I know you have to play the long game, but please look after yourself first and foremost. Your daughters are all adults, you are the one who is suffering the most from the loss of your DH and you need some TLC after this terrible few years.
Do something really nice just for you, or have a trip somewhere beautiful with your younger dds. Flowers for you.

forrestgreen · 28/01/2022 14:58

You sound like you've accepted that this is the way it is. That you get a better relationship with dd when you don't push/ask/offer.
And I think you're right, try is way you keep a contact open. But for the love of god put a stop to her using your Amazon account!

UserBotTrending · 28/01/2022 15:08

Glad you're in a strong, wise place right now and that the contact is warm and fairly breezy. You're handling it so well.

Bendyrabbit · 28/01/2022 18:43

You sound like such a lovely mother.

Chopinandchampagne · 31/01/2022 20:14

I just wanted to say a slightly belated thank you for the latest posts.

I have exchanged a few more cheerful messages with DD and she has sent some more photos.

I had a call today from my daughters' former nanny, who has remained a good friend. She has also just become a granny and her DS now lives in California with his American wife. She struggled to bring him up, as a single parent, and they both had to work hard for everything. She has been invited to stay with them to meet the new arrival, and DS has bought her business class flights. She was absolutely thrilled and I am so pleased for her.

However, it did make me think how nice it must be to be able to just have spontaneous joy in what is a wonderful event. Not only am I not welcome, but I doubt whether LB would even give me my bus fare home. Grin There has been no mention of any visit and I have not been expecting it, but I still feel oddly disappointed and a bit empty, probably not helped because there are a couple of significant 'anniversaries' coming up this week.

Anyway, the sun has been shining and there are some new shoots coming through in the garden, so here's to new beginnings! Wine

OP posts:
RandomMess · 31/01/2022 22:53

It's ok that's is sad and "unfair" and you don't have the joy of most grandparents.

Yes Wine to new beginnings and a new therapist Wink

ESGdance · 01/02/2022 07:49

It’s not odd to feel disappointed and empty - because this situation is emotionally derelict.

It’s good that you are noticing and respecting your feelings and sitting with them in contemplation. What’s significant now and is an indication of your strength and wisdom is that you have not acted on them directly with your DD and LB because you know it is a cruel game / trap, is futile and is designed to inflict pain on you and sabotage your fragile relationship with your DD with LB smirking away at the distress and chaos he inflicts on you.

And you are now centred and smart enough not to walk into that trap.

But it is still truly devastating that you will not see your DGS, your DD after giving birth and your other DGDs. It’s far from normal or acceptable but if you stand out of his way and don’t get lured into the emotional trap your DD will soon see where the chaos and pain is coming from.

Allow yourself plenty of self compassion during these difficult weeks and months for this cruel situation, feel and express your emotions to process them but be proud that you know what’s going on and that you can manage your actions to preserve contact with your DD.

Sorrow and acceptance of the situation but also turning your back to embrace nurture and rebuild other areas of your life which non time will grow so big and deep that they will more than dampen down and balance out the pain and loss from your DD.

I am thinking back two years to the shenanigans of when DD2 was born and the ever smaller humiliating hoops LB made you jump through for months. You have come such a long way since then.

Billybagpuss · 01/02/2022 07:58

I agree, you’ve come such a long way in such a vile game.

What will be truly interesting is how things change if/when one of your other dds get pregnant.

UserBot9to5 · 01/02/2022 08:26

@RandomMess

It's ok that's is sad and "unfair" and you don't have the joy of most grandparents.

Yes Wine to new beginnings and a new therapist Wink

I agree. Really mindfully acknowledge how challenging the pain of the nanny being invited is. It's salt in a wound.

Don't be hard on yourself for normal predictable feelings of sadness or injustice. Kristen neff phd is good for the practice of self compassion; acknowledging that something is very challenging and extremely painful and it's a predictable response to feel how you do, reminding yourself ur not alone with it, many have been in these shoes and they felt the exact same. Then remind yrslf the feelings of injustice done to you will pass
They arent defining you, they're passing through. 🧘‍♀️

My therapist really got me in to self compassion. I didnt get it at first. I felt she was just lowering all the bars which would make all of my "low achievement" worse.

Good luck with the new therapist. I liked mine
Cant imagine it if i hadnt.

SecretDoor · 01/02/2022 08:30

Well done Chopin . You have stayed calm and loving but have not fallen into the trap of asking to visit. It is interesting that DD1 has continued to contact you since being discharged from hospital. I wonder why LB is allowing this contact? Tread carefully 💐

ESGdance · 01/02/2022 08:37

@SecretDoor

Well done Chopin . You have stayed calm and loving but have not fallen into the trap of asking to visit. It is interesting that DD1 has continued to contact you since being discharged from hospital. I wonder why LB is allowing this contact? Tread carefully 💐
I suspect that he is just waiting for Chopin to bite….
ESGdance · 01/02/2022 08:38

Disappoint him!

FelicityPike · 01/02/2022 08:44

Congratulations on the new baby x.

Billybagpuss · 01/02/2022 10:31

@SecretDoor

Well done Chopin . You have stayed calm and loving but have not fallen into the trap of asking to visit. It is interesting that DD1 has continued to contact you since being discharged from hospital. I wonder why LB is allowing this contact? Tread carefully 💐
I think he realises dd won’t accept full nc again. He needs to allow enough to keep her under control
SirVixofVixHall · 01/02/2022 11:38

Sadly I don’t think that is the reason, I think he likes keeping Chopin on a hook because he thinks she may be financially useful in the future, and because he enjoys hurting her.

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