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I don't think I will be allowed to see my new grandchild.

1000 replies

Chopinandchampagne · 13/12/2021 00:27

Some of you may remember my previous threads regarding my relationship with my daughter and SIL.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/4145356-SIL-and-money-issues?msgid=109152806#109152806

It has been a difficult year, following the death of DH, with lots of firsts to get through, but I have just about survived, with a lot of support from DD2 and DD3, DH's family and friends. And, earlier in the year, DD1 told me she was expecting DGS1 in early January. This time she told me very shortly after the pregnancy was confirmed, and was clearly thrilled saying that 'new life' was coming after DH's death. She was delighted to find out that the baby is a boy, as SIL particularly wanted a son, after two daughters.

I had thought that, if there were any positives from DH's death - and it is hard to think of any, as I loved him so much - the family might be reconciled and healed. And I was very happy to hear about the baby, although a bit concerned, given the two previous emergency C sections (although I kept my concerns to myself).

DD1 has now moved to Ireland, having purchased a small holding with her inheritance from DH's aunt, as DH drafted his aunt's will so that his share would go to his DC if he were to predecease her. DD1 had sent me photos of the new property, says how much they love it over there, it feels 'so right' etc. They went for about a month and have now returned to the UK for the birth. I thought all was fine with my relationship with DD1, we were having natural conversations, FaceTimes with DGD1 and DGD2, ending conversations with 'I love you; etc.

I had enjoyed picking out some Christmas presents, which I thought they would enjoy. With the DGDs, I have sent presents which I knew they would appreciate, for DD1 some cashmere hat, gloves, scarf etc, and socks for baby, as I know it will be cold on the small holding, but also a food hamper, chocolates and candles sent jointly to DD1 and SIL, saying with love from Mum etc.

I spoke to DD1 on Friday and I could tell that there was something wrong, as she seemed more tense, less relaxed. She started by saying that she thought I should claim a refund for the hamper, that I had wasted my money, as the ham was too dry and not as good as supermarket ham. I thanked her for letting me know and said I would do so. She said the chocolates had too many additives, so they couldn't eat them (I had chosen dairy and soy free ones, as DGD1 had an allergy to dairy), so I said fine, just regift or donate them. They are generally happy with the DGC's toys, although I shouldn't send anything else. I said I understood, and was conscious that they wouldn't want too much stuff to take back to Ireland.

Then I asked her about how she was feeling and how the 36 week scan had gone. It seems that the baby is small (10th percentile), although appears healthy, but she is very worried about the birth, which is understandable, given the history. She wants a natural birth and is terrified of intervention. She thinks some of the medical staff are horrible and referred to one who asked her last time if she wanted a dead baby on her conscience, after she refused medical advice to have an elective C section. I made reassuring comments. She also said that she might not tell anyone when she went into labour as she didn't want to worry anyone, such as SIL's grandparents (last time she sent me messages before the birth and we spoke afterwards).

We then had a discussion about Ireland. They have run into some problems to do with the Forestry/Agricultural Commission which are preventing them from obtaining a felling licence and flock number, which they need to purchase animals. It seems that not all of the land has been conveyed to them and they have fallen out with the solicitor, whom they feel has been negligent. SIL spent a long time composing a letter and was angry when he only received a brief reply from the solicitor.

Anyway, after all that, I said that I and her sisters were looking forward to seeing the baby, especially after not seeing DGD1 as a baby, and DGD2 because of lockdown. She went a bit quiet and was non committal just saying Mmm, we'll see, I need to have the baby first. I pressed the point and she said 'SIL is my husband'. I said 'Yes, I know'. She said that I had tried to make her feel guilty over her treatment of DH and that she didn't feel guilty. She repeated this and then said that I had said that I was going to write SIL a letter in the summer and that it might now be too late. I was genuinely taken aback by this.

For context, before I visited in the summer, we had a heated conversation where I said that she had hurt DH (and me) by not telling him about the birth of DGD1 for 14 months or her marriage and by moving without telling us. I admit I was angry as I felt that DH had been cheated of precious time with his granddaughter, although I said that I knew she hadn't known that he was going to die. I said that I thought that she had been emotionally abusive in 'ghosting' us and I didn't want to form an attachment to my DGCs if there was a risk of it happening again. It would just be too painful. It made me afraid of loving them as I would wish to. DD1 had referred then to the incident, some years before, where I had made SIL leave my house (they weren't married then), as I felt he was bullying her. I said that it was all a long time ago and that 'Dad didn't do anything wrong, did he?', to which she replied 'No'. She said that SIL had told her not to be in contact.

I subsequently said, in another conversation, that I had been angry, but that I wasn't any longer, and that it would be nice if we could go out to lunch together, just the two of us, when I visited, and to start rebuilding our relationship. I duly visited, had what I thought was a very pleasant day with the family at a local attraction, then lunch with DD1 then next day. I said I thought that the previous day had gone well and she said that SIL had told her that he did not want me to visit too often (this was the first time I had visited since DH's funeral). I said that I was sorry to hear this and was there some way of resolving matters; that the 'incident' was all a long time ago, that it was time to move on, and that DH's death put disagreements into context. She said maybe I should say that to SIL and it was him I should be taking out or talking to. I said I would be happy to talk to him, but I doubted that he would want to go out with me, maybe I should write him a letter. So I floated the idea of a letter in a private conversation with DD1, but did not say that I was definitely going to write one and, upon reflection, I thought that it might be too much of a hostage to fortune.

During this lunch, which was mostly pleasant, and focusing on neutral topics, DD1 repeated again that she had cut us off because SIL had told her to, that she had had to choose and would always choose SIL. I said that I had made SIL leave my house on that occasion because I was trying to protect her, especially given her previous abusive relationship. She said she had not told SIL about this ie the previous relationship and she was not sure if she would behave in the same way as I did. She said she appreciated that I did not know that she would marry SIL at the time. I said that I understood that, in the final analysis, she would and should put her family first, but I thought she should also have some loyalty to her original family. After that, we returned to everyday topics and I thought we had both had a pleasant lunch, 'cleared the air', and that we were moving forward in rebuilding our relationship. However, it seems I was wrong.

When we returned to the house after lunch (for me to call a taxi back to the hotel), SIL went off to his workshop without speaking to me or saying goodbye. I went to the workshop and said goodbye and gave him a hug. I found it a gruelling trip without DH but went away thinking it had gone well.

Anyway, back to the present, I was blindsided by DD1's comments in the conversation to the effect that I should have written a letter and that it might be 'too late'. I said what did she think I should say in the letter. I said that it was all so long ago, that I had apologised to SIL, that we had met since then at DD1's 21st, that he had said we were 'ok'.DD1 said she didn't want anything that would upset her after the birth. I said that I would never do anything to upset her after the birth. I said that I was nice to SIL, praised him for his DIY skills and as a father, that I behaved in a civilised fashion, sent him cards and gifts, what more could I do, I couldn't make him like me. At this stage DD1 was clearly agitated and said she had to go and that she would speak to me another time. I said 'Alright darling, good bye'.

So I feel both devastated and empty at the same time. I had thought, after the most hellish two years, when I had to watch my beloved DH die and then lose his aunt, whom I was close to. When, more recently, my MIL nearly died, my sister in law has had major surgery, and I have lost one of my closest friends (the funeral is this week), I had thought that I had just about survived. I keep giving myself a talking to, saying come on, just one more step forward, nearly there, nearly the end of the year. And now this.

I apologise for the length of this post, but I would be grateful for any advice as to how handle the situation. Part of just feels like giving up, but I obviously don't want to lose DD1 again, and I am worried about the birth of DGS and would have wanted to be a support, not an aggravating factor.

OP posts:
Chopinandchampagne · 20/01/2022 14:55

I have sent this reply -

Yes, that’s ok. Good luck with the scan X

Short and sweet and Billy is right, this is not the time to draw a line in the sand. I am more than happy for her to order the headphones, anything to help her through this difficult and worrying time.

But yes, she could and should have offered to pay, and I would have refused, but it would have been nice to have been asked. You see what I mean though? She throws things back in my face as being unsuitable or too extravagant, but then just expects things when she wants them. It's all so inconsistent.

However, it's not a hill to die on, and certainly not now.

Thanks everyone. I will reply to your lovely, helpful posts later, but was just interested in what you thought of her message.

OP posts:
REignbow · 20/01/2022 15:14

@Billybagpuss that maybe so. However, why can’t her so called DH pop to a supermarket and buy her some?

@Chopinandchampagne as already suggested ask her to transfer the money to you. After her awful messages about the Xmas gifts l think that she is so entitled to then keep asking you to buy her stuff from Amazon.

BluebellCockleshell123 · 20/01/2022 15:21

Hi Chopin.

I would reply to say that you are concerned that any headphones ordered online would not reach her on time and if she wants to make sure she has some then she should go buy some from a local shop.

You could also say that you are trying to limit your purchasing on Amazon for ethical reasons as they do not pay taxes. That’ll annoy LB for sure!

You’re doing so well with your reasoning and boundaries. Keep going! 💐

REignbow · 20/01/2022 15:21

@Chopinandchampagne I say this kindly, but you realise she’s manipulated you again right?

As I said previously, why can’t LB buy her some from a supermarket?

They berate you for choosing some thoughtful gifts but then expect you to order X, Y and Z from Amazon. You need to draw a line and say that you’ll order items for her, but she needs to transfer the money to you first (if it’s not done first, then any excuse will be made about not transferring in order to make it awkward for you).

BluebellCockleshell123 · 20/01/2022 15:24

Ah crossed posts. I understand why you have allowed her to order the headphones, but as other posters have said…she has to realise her situation. Why couldn’t LB have popped to a shop to get some headphones? They sell them in every supermarket.

RandomMess · 20/01/2022 15:27

Time for you to close your Amazon Account. Set up a new one if she has the password to it.

Say that you don't wish to use it anymore for environmental reasons.

Interested to see how much she spent on them. Seeing as though they demanded top of the range iPads for the DDs their use already. Talk about extravagant when it suits LB wants.

Chopinandchampagne · 20/01/2022 15:37

I know, you are all right, I am being used as a facility, and I am not happy about it. I do recognise this and please don't think that I am disregarding all of your wise advice. I do appreciate it. Slipperly, thank you for your helpful post, which crossed with mine.

But I just want her to have something to make her feel a bit more comfortable at this difficult time. I think we all know that LB won't spend the time or the money in buying headphones for her.

I presume that tonight the hospital staff will be advising her to have an elective C section, which will throw her into fear and turmoil. The last two deliveries were terrifying for her. I am feeling much more detached and I am now being manipulated by consent on this occasion, if you see what I mean. I am resigned to not seeing the baby or DD for the foreseeable future, but I want her and baby to be ok. Then I can step back and relax.

OP posts:
LetsGoParty · 20/01/2022 15:48

Your reply was perfect OP. Hope everything goes well for your daughter. It must be worrying for you.

RandomMess · 20/01/2022 15:54

It must be awful for you. This is a risky time for both DD and the baby.

It's upsetting for us when we don't know her so I can only imagine how it is for you.

Thanks
ESGdance · 20/01/2022 15:56

I 100% agree this is manipulation

I 100% agree this is not the moment to draw your line in the sand

It would be playing right into LB hands and would forever be associated with the birth

Perfect response

Keep your powder dry - this is possibly a test or trap.

You will have PLENTY of other opportunities to put your boundaries down.

Wise decision and good that you can see the emotional manipulation.

Ohfortheloveofgodwhatnow · 20/01/2022 15:58

It’s all been quite a process for you @Chopinandchampagne but I think we can all feel your change in attitude and approach. This is most definitely the right thing to do. You weren’t going to ever win by trying to ingratiate yourself there, although it was evident it’s been a really hard and painful road for you. I really feel dd1 has been awful to you because she can. She can feel your constant love so it feels safe to take her shit out on you. She’s disappeared before and come back and there you are. Calm and collected, doing the best you can. One day I really feel she will hold that constant love up against LB’s controlling and the fog will lift.

I think you were right to just let her get the headphones btw. It’s not the time to teach her a lesson as she’s at her most vulnerable.

Chopinandchampagne · 20/01/2022 16:00

Thanks everyone. She does have my Amazon password. I have just realised that, if she looks at my order history, she will see that earlier this week I purchased the Kindle edition of 'Paranoid Personality Disorder'! Confused

OP posts:
Lovemelongthai · 20/01/2022 16:06

I would be concerned that she is moving to Ireland with him, sounds incredibly controlling, and the isolation stage is the worst. Once they help destabilise your relationship with others, they move you away. However, you need to look after yourself too. Ultimately, it's her life and choices, it doesn't make it easy but a step back may leave you worrying less. Let her come to you if and when she is ready.

RandomMess · 20/01/2022 16:06

🤣

RandomMess · 20/01/2022 16:08

Once she's purchased it change your password.

When she next asks for something tell her you had a fraud alert/issue and that then makes it easier for her to send £ and link for what she wants and you buy.

2 birds with one stone.

Angelswithflirtyfaces · 20/01/2022 16:11

Just wow gone from pay per view to just pay up. You are fab to let it go but after the birth maybe enquire as to why LB didnt purchase these locally. I do hope you are not being groomed for bigger and more shameless purchases in future.

OrangeBlossomsinthesun · 20/01/2022 16:15

@RandomMess

Once she's purchased it change your password.

When she next asks for something tell her you had a fraud alert/issue and that then makes it easier for her to send £ and link for what she wants and you buy.

2 birds with one stone.

Yes, this is a good idea.
LorthernNights · 20/01/2022 16:16

Ah Chopin everything she sends reminds me of my daughter who has her very own “LB”
From the “You’re rich- give us money” ( well ours was “you earn well above the national average -give us money “ to “ The amount you and dad spend on holidays is just ridiculous - give us money”
Messages all sent while neither of them worked ( both very capable of doing so ) but led a very chaotic life .

We also used to get manipulative texts similar to the one you received today although ours were never quite as polite ( at least your DD said please 🤣)

I know she’ll be very self absorbed right now but did she ask how you were at all in that text Chopin?

I agree it certainly isn’t a hill to die on - not at the moment . LB would have a field day if you did ! She, he ( or maybe both ) are master manipulators though . Yuk !

As a PP says It will be interesting to see whether she orders a £10 pair or some all singing all dancing ones !

💐 for you Chopin.
Glad your DD2 has a lovely boyfriend and I am sure DD 3 will do just fine with her diagnosis - after all she has you on her side !! Xx

Oh and I’d be changing my amazon password ( just say you’d been hacked or something )
Xx

flashy44 · 20/01/2022 16:24

@ivykaty44

i think you need to detach as much as possible. These people just take take take from you on their terms. Send your grandchildren presents, speak to your daughter once or twice a year, and focus on your other children so you are not constantly caught in this emotional turmoil, especially when you are coping with the loss of your DH.

This ^

Unfortunately your SinL sucks the life out of everything

Your dd1?is behaving like a spoilt child

Detach yourself for your own sanity

Send money for the children and vouchers for the adults - saves the bother of getting presents to be nick picked over & critiqued

All of this,think of your own metal health ,detach yourself.Stay strong x
GooseberryJam · 20/01/2022 16:31

Good response @Chopinandchampagne. I know it's a struggle to keep to the shorter messages but that was exactly what to do - very brief, as neutral as possible but still well disposed towards her.

You've also avoided the trap of them being able to pick over and find fault with your response. LB would love to be able to point out how mean you were being if you refused (even though he'd be unlikely to buy them for her himself!) Or to complain about you sending long emotional messages as you trying to 'manipulate' them. Good to avoid all these pitfalls.

Agree with the advice to change your password. I'd give it a week or so not to look too obvious, then do it (don't use anything she may be able to guess) and if she mentions it at any point, use one of the suggestions here. You were hacked, you're trying not to use it as much and buy locally so you haven't remembered the new password. It's fine to go along with this relatively small thing now - I think - but to take steps so that it doesn't become a regular thing.

Stay strong in this tricky phase as you wait for more news. You are managing well. We're all with you and holding your hands.

SecretDoor · 20/01/2022 16:37

@RandomMess

Once she's purchased it change your password.

When she next asks for something tell her you had a fraud alert/issue and that then makes it easier for her to send £ and link for what she wants and you buy.

2 birds with one stone.

Excellent idea

I completely understand why you have agreed to the purchase today though.

MrsPotatoHead22 · 20/01/2022 16:41

Hi Op. I've been reading your thread and don't know what LB means? Sorry if its obvious.

So sorry about the loss of your husband last year and the break down of your relationship with your daughter. I hope it can be fixed. Sounds like she's been listening to her husband too much. I also wish her baby a safe delivery. Scary that she's decided to risk her child's life by going to 42 weeks and refusing intervention! Some of us never had that choice to begin with.

AtLeastPretendToCare · 20/01/2022 16:44

If you don’t want to lock her out the Amazon account but also don’t want her to see the book you bought then you can “archive order” so it doesn’t come up in your order page. It will still be in your underlying records.

You do this through a web browser (not app) - go to “your orders” and at the bottom of an order on the left there will be a link to “archive order.

Mix56 · 20/01/2022 16:45

Dont they have Amazon account ?.. of course they fo, esp. as they now live in the middle if a bog. Or she could add her card to your account temporarily.
This is cheeky fuckery, or LB has refused to finance new ones... except, what, wait, who's invested her inheritance into this new project?
I would look & see if she has bought simple ones, or top of the range.
So that you can say,
"Well, I am sorry to see you have ordered the high end head phones. You can count them as your birthday present,
At least that way you wont complain about unwanted gifts"

I know she is about to have a baby, but there will always be an emergency.

Pfbing · 20/01/2022 17:42

@Chopinandchampagne I've just spent the last 2 hours reading through this and your previous thread. I couldn't just read and run. I just want to say what an absolutely incredible mum you are for still being there despite all the crap you've endured. My dad has oesophageal cancer so your story feels close to my heart. I'm so sorry for your loss. Much less extremes, but I have an older sister who pushes my mum away and alienates her from her life, where as me and my mum are very close as you sound with DD2 and DD3. I have recently had a DD myself and my mum's relationship with her is incredible to watch. Awful as it is to not have that closeness with your current DGC, one day you'll have this lovely relationship with DD2 and DD3's children. I'm keeping your DD1 in my thoughts for a safe birth. Keep being the incredibly thoughtful person your are OP, despite the toxicity your SIL tries to inject into your life

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