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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

I don't think I will be allowed to see my new grandchild.

1000 replies

Chopinandchampagne · 13/12/2021 00:27

Some of you may remember my previous threads regarding my relationship with my daughter and SIL.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/4145356-SIL-and-money-issues?msgid=109152806#109152806

It has been a difficult year, following the death of DH, with lots of firsts to get through, but I have just about survived, with a lot of support from DD2 and DD3, DH's family and friends. And, earlier in the year, DD1 told me she was expecting DGS1 in early January. This time she told me very shortly after the pregnancy was confirmed, and was clearly thrilled saying that 'new life' was coming after DH's death. She was delighted to find out that the baby is a boy, as SIL particularly wanted a son, after two daughters.

I had thought that, if there were any positives from DH's death - and it is hard to think of any, as I loved him so much - the family might be reconciled and healed. And I was very happy to hear about the baby, although a bit concerned, given the two previous emergency C sections (although I kept my concerns to myself).

DD1 has now moved to Ireland, having purchased a small holding with her inheritance from DH's aunt, as DH drafted his aunt's will so that his share would go to his DC if he were to predecease her. DD1 had sent me photos of the new property, says how much they love it over there, it feels 'so right' etc. They went for about a month and have now returned to the UK for the birth. I thought all was fine with my relationship with DD1, we were having natural conversations, FaceTimes with DGD1 and DGD2, ending conversations with 'I love you; etc.

I had enjoyed picking out some Christmas presents, which I thought they would enjoy. With the DGDs, I have sent presents which I knew they would appreciate, for DD1 some cashmere hat, gloves, scarf etc, and socks for baby, as I know it will be cold on the small holding, but also a food hamper, chocolates and candles sent jointly to DD1 and SIL, saying with love from Mum etc.

I spoke to DD1 on Friday and I could tell that there was something wrong, as she seemed more tense, less relaxed. She started by saying that she thought I should claim a refund for the hamper, that I had wasted my money, as the ham was too dry and not as good as supermarket ham. I thanked her for letting me know and said I would do so. She said the chocolates had too many additives, so they couldn't eat them (I had chosen dairy and soy free ones, as DGD1 had an allergy to dairy), so I said fine, just regift or donate them. They are generally happy with the DGC's toys, although I shouldn't send anything else. I said I understood, and was conscious that they wouldn't want too much stuff to take back to Ireland.

Then I asked her about how she was feeling and how the 36 week scan had gone. It seems that the baby is small (10th percentile), although appears healthy, but she is very worried about the birth, which is understandable, given the history. She wants a natural birth and is terrified of intervention. She thinks some of the medical staff are horrible and referred to one who asked her last time if she wanted a dead baby on her conscience, after she refused medical advice to have an elective C section. I made reassuring comments. She also said that she might not tell anyone when she went into labour as she didn't want to worry anyone, such as SIL's grandparents (last time she sent me messages before the birth and we spoke afterwards).

We then had a discussion about Ireland. They have run into some problems to do with the Forestry/Agricultural Commission which are preventing them from obtaining a felling licence and flock number, which they need to purchase animals. It seems that not all of the land has been conveyed to them and they have fallen out with the solicitor, whom they feel has been negligent. SIL spent a long time composing a letter and was angry when he only received a brief reply from the solicitor.

Anyway, after all that, I said that I and her sisters were looking forward to seeing the baby, especially after not seeing DGD1 as a baby, and DGD2 because of lockdown. She went a bit quiet and was non committal just saying Mmm, we'll see, I need to have the baby first. I pressed the point and she said 'SIL is my husband'. I said 'Yes, I know'. She said that I had tried to make her feel guilty over her treatment of DH and that she didn't feel guilty. She repeated this and then said that I had said that I was going to write SIL a letter in the summer and that it might now be too late. I was genuinely taken aback by this.

For context, before I visited in the summer, we had a heated conversation where I said that she had hurt DH (and me) by not telling him about the birth of DGD1 for 14 months or her marriage and by moving without telling us. I admit I was angry as I felt that DH had been cheated of precious time with his granddaughter, although I said that I knew she hadn't known that he was going to die. I said that I thought that she had been emotionally abusive in 'ghosting' us and I didn't want to form an attachment to my DGCs if there was a risk of it happening again. It would just be too painful. It made me afraid of loving them as I would wish to. DD1 had referred then to the incident, some years before, where I had made SIL leave my house (they weren't married then), as I felt he was bullying her. I said that it was all a long time ago and that 'Dad didn't do anything wrong, did he?', to which she replied 'No'. She said that SIL had told her not to be in contact.

I subsequently said, in another conversation, that I had been angry, but that I wasn't any longer, and that it would be nice if we could go out to lunch together, just the two of us, when I visited, and to start rebuilding our relationship. I duly visited, had what I thought was a very pleasant day with the family at a local attraction, then lunch with DD1 then next day. I said I thought that the previous day had gone well and she said that SIL had told her that he did not want me to visit too often (this was the first time I had visited since DH's funeral). I said that I was sorry to hear this and was there some way of resolving matters; that the 'incident' was all a long time ago, that it was time to move on, and that DH's death put disagreements into context. She said maybe I should say that to SIL and it was him I should be taking out or talking to. I said I would be happy to talk to him, but I doubted that he would want to go out with me, maybe I should write him a letter. So I floated the idea of a letter in a private conversation with DD1, but did not say that I was definitely going to write one and, upon reflection, I thought that it might be too much of a hostage to fortune.

During this lunch, which was mostly pleasant, and focusing on neutral topics, DD1 repeated again that she had cut us off because SIL had told her to, that she had had to choose and would always choose SIL. I said that I had made SIL leave my house on that occasion because I was trying to protect her, especially given her previous abusive relationship. She said she had not told SIL about this ie the previous relationship and she was not sure if she would behave in the same way as I did. She said she appreciated that I did not know that she would marry SIL at the time. I said that I understood that, in the final analysis, she would and should put her family first, but I thought she should also have some loyalty to her original family. After that, we returned to everyday topics and I thought we had both had a pleasant lunch, 'cleared the air', and that we were moving forward in rebuilding our relationship. However, it seems I was wrong.

When we returned to the house after lunch (for me to call a taxi back to the hotel), SIL went off to his workshop without speaking to me or saying goodbye. I went to the workshop and said goodbye and gave him a hug. I found it a gruelling trip without DH but went away thinking it had gone well.

Anyway, back to the present, I was blindsided by DD1's comments in the conversation to the effect that I should have written a letter and that it might be 'too late'. I said what did she think I should say in the letter. I said that it was all so long ago, that I had apologised to SIL, that we had met since then at DD1's 21st, that he had said we were 'ok'.DD1 said she didn't want anything that would upset her after the birth. I said that I would never do anything to upset her after the birth. I said that I was nice to SIL, praised him for his DIY skills and as a father, that I behaved in a civilised fashion, sent him cards and gifts, what more could I do, I couldn't make him like me. At this stage DD1 was clearly agitated and said she had to go and that she would speak to me another time. I said 'Alright darling, good bye'.

So I feel both devastated and empty at the same time. I had thought, after the most hellish two years, when I had to watch my beloved DH die and then lose his aunt, whom I was close to. When, more recently, my MIL nearly died, my sister in law has had major surgery, and I have lost one of my closest friends (the funeral is this week), I had thought that I had just about survived. I keep giving myself a talking to, saying come on, just one more step forward, nearly there, nearly the end of the year. And now this.

I apologise for the length of this post, but I would be grateful for any advice as to how handle the situation. Part of just feels like giving up, but I obviously don't want to lose DD1 again, and I am worried about the birth of DGS and would have wanted to be a support, not an aggravating factor.

OP posts:
LadyEloise1 · 05/01/2022 08:49

@Chopinandchampagne
hoping 2022 will be a better year for you and your daughters.
You are a Star Mum and I hope DD1, one day very soon, will appreciate all you have done for her and her family.

ESGdance · 05/01/2022 10:11

I think the detach / step back advice, which is counterintuitive, is so that you can keep a door open for your DD1 - all you have to do is smile and wave. Wait for her to contact you. Don’t initiate. Keep it vague and just respond to Qs and give v little info.

You are 100% correct that he is manipulating and stirring to upset you both so that you are both distressed and have a row - don’t fall into that trap - he wants her to slam the door on you. Don’t let him goad you.

Step back and let it be really clear to her that he is 100% responsible for her distress.

Don’t get in the way of her seeing, feeling and knowing it is him.

He and she are looking for a target to blame / redirect / project - don’t voluntarily walk in the firing line.

I think when you suggest the following you are getting too involved with detail and actually minimising what HE has done and inadvertently taking the blame - don’t fudge the issue - let her see it for all it’s starkness - HE is directly causing her this distress - make sure she knows it - don’t give her an excuse to cover up for him. Don’t let it be YOU that covers up for HIM.

“I think I might just say that I am afraid of visiting, as I don't want to risk them catching Covid, as they are not vaccinated, and I have been out and about in London (which is also true). That way I prevent any drama, even if I ca't see DD and baby.”

You haven’t been invited - she knows that - let her experience that discomfort.

The more discomfort she feels and knows is directly from him the sooner she will hit her rock bottom and look to leave. So you making her emotionally comfortable is keeping her there.

There doesn’t need to be any drama if everything is grey rock and detached with your DD.

Know that she loves you and it’s all there in the unsaid. Trust that she knows you love her deeply - he can’t take that away from inside her heart unless you inadvertently provide any words or actions that he will always spin negatively. You are smarter than him - he can’t steal love.

Do be angry and rage and express and process your deep deep hurt - because what is happening to you is 100% toxic and dysfunctional and abusive - but do so to your therapist, on here, to trusted friends.

But to her turn on the grey rock robot to protect you both.

Have some self compassion - it’s v hard for you to know that your DD has a high risk pregnancy, that you can’t support or help her, that you won’t see the baby and that they are moving away soon. That’s hugely distressing and your hands are tied. Allow yourself to accept your powerlessness here - but don’t let it drain you because you have your own life to rebuild and that’s where you need to focus.

I wouldn’t worry too much about the legal or financial situation with the Ireland property it doesn’t sound like they need to sell it in the near future - he will stick it out - his ego will never let him return. It’s typical of his impulsive behaviour but he will make it “work” - he must have some financial acumen if he has acquired three properties mortgage free to date before he is 30 never having worked a day in his life.

Money isn’t an issue for them - although it must gut you that another relative grafted for their whole life to provide this inheritance.

Try to find distracting, sustaining and enriching things to do that will support you over these very tense few weeks.

SirVixofVixHall · 05/01/2022 11:29

I agree with ESG above.
I think you are so caught up in this that it has affected you very deeply, you question and second guess every action of your own. You still sound in shock, and as the whole situation has also been compounded by the tragic death of your DH the shock will take time to absorb.
LB is an arch manipulator, try to stand back from all his noise and as said above, let her feel it. You know that you would help your daughter if she left, she knows that she can turn up on your doorstep and be welcomed in, at any point. Really that is all that you can offer now. She is almost thirty, pretty much everyone is independent of their parents at that age, and not everyone has the good fortune of a mother who would take in an adult daughter plus several children if necessary.
I think you are as much a victim of his manipulative aggression as your daughter, I feel your tentative tip toeing around him through your posts and it makes me very angry with him, and I feel pain for you and want to pull you out of it. I know there is nothing at all that you can do, or not do, that will ever make him behave well towards you or your dd. He is who he is, he won’t change, your daughter needs to change, and as long as the dynamic of the three of you remains the same she won’t as it cements her into the two of them versus you. Stepping back and shifting that dynamic back into the duo that it should be is really the only hope for change. (That plus her children getting older and him being a terrible parent. I hold a hope that she loves her children more than she loves him, and that will push her to get out).

I think perhaps looking at the Freedom programme might help you, even though you are indirectly affected by this rather than being the person in the relationship. When you have had a long and happy relationship, as you have, the behaviour of very manipulative men can blindside you. Getting some tools via something like the Freedom Programme, or a counsellor specifically trained in coercion and abuse, would help you to stop agonising over your own actions, and to put LB in his box.
Really it is only time that might help here. Think of it like a garden. Sow seeds of discontent, by reinforcing your own boundaries, and exposing his actions, and wait.

ESGdance · 05/01/2022 12:30

@SirVixofVixHall

I agree with ESG above. I think you are so caught up in this that it has affected you very deeply, you question and second guess every action of your own. You still sound in shock, and as the whole situation has also been compounded by the tragic death of your DH the shock will take time to absorb. LB is an arch manipulator, try to stand back from all his noise and as said above, let her feel it. You know that you would help your daughter if she left, she knows that she can turn up on your doorstep and be welcomed in, at any point. Really that is all that you can offer now. She is almost thirty, pretty much everyone is independent of their parents at that age, and not everyone has the good fortune of a mother who would take in an adult daughter plus several children if necessary. I think you are as much a victim of his manipulative aggression as your daughter, I feel your tentative tip toeing around him through your posts and it makes me very angry with him, and I feel pain for you and want to pull you out of it. I know there is nothing at all that you can do, or not do, that will ever make him behave well towards you or your dd. He is who he is, he won’t change, your daughter needs to change, and as long as the dynamic of the three of you remains the same she won’t as it cements her into the two of them versus you. Stepping back and shifting that dynamic back into the duo that it should be is really the only hope for change. (That plus her children getting older and him being a terrible parent. I hold a hope that she loves her children more than she loves him, and that will push her to get out). I think perhaps looking at the Freedom programme might help you, even though you are indirectly affected by this rather than being the person in the relationship. When you have had a long and happy relationship, as you have, the behaviour of very manipulative men can blindside you. Getting some tools via something like the Freedom Programme, or a counsellor specifically trained in coercion and abuse, would help you to stop agonising over your own actions, and to put LB in his box. Really it is only time that might help here. Think of it like a garden. Sow seeds of discontent, by reinforcing your own boundaries, and exposing his actions, and wait.
Brilliantly articulated @SirVixofVixHall

Especially this part:

“ He is who he is, he won’t change, your daughter needs to change, and as long as the dynamic of the three of you remains the same she won’t as it cements her into the two of them versus you. Stepping back and shifting that dynamic back into the duo that it should be is really the only hope for change.”

And your very poetic closing sentence.

Failingallotmenteur · 05/01/2022 13:07

Wanted to pick up on this:

It may be that LB is still after revenge for my making him leave my house, nearly 7 years ago now

You do realise that his behaviour towards you has actually nothing to do with this? You repeat throughout your threads, that you believe he particularly dislikes you because you once threw him out. It's nothing to do with that at all. It's because you're her mother, and she loves you. Therefore you threaten his overall control of her. There is nothing at all you could have done differently in your behaviour towards him that would have meant you'd end up in a different place now. Nothing at all. I do hope you don't blame yourself.

YY to the freedom programme as suggested above. Please find yourself a new counsellor.

Billybagpuss · 05/01/2022 13:19

Oh chopin my heart breaks every time I read an update from you. Have you heard from her recently?

I think the way you are imagining any visit is 100% accurate. I know you’d do it, but boy will it be hard. I’d be inclined to just not mention the possibility at all.

As for the inheritance, yours will be substantial how about splitting 3 ways as you always intended, but of Dd1 portion she gets a nominal amount so she is still included and the rest of her share in trust between her DCs until they are 25 which is late enough to avoid lb influence. You can always change it if things change in the future.

LadyEloise1 · 05/01/2022 13:28

Such great advice from @SirVixofVixHall and @ESGdance.
I think you're right @Failingallotmenteur, he resents Chopin because dd1 loves her and because of that love he loses a tiny bit of control over her.
It's a waiting game.
It will be slow.
It will be painful.

SirVixofVixHall · 05/01/2022 13:47

Totally agree with Falling above.
It is because you are her mother, and she loves you, therefore you threaten his overall control of you controlling men hate their partner’s mothers above everyone else.
There is nothing you could have done differently that would have led to another outcome. Isolating your daughter, and using you as a cash cow has always been his aim. The only thing you could have done is step back earlier, which would have saved you some pain, but not changed the basic situation.

SirVixofVixHall · 05/01/2022 13:47

Should read control of her not of you, sorry.

Sidehustle99 · 05/01/2022 13:52

@Billybagpuss

Oh chopin my heart breaks every time I read an update from you. Have you heard from her recently?

I think the way you are imagining any visit is 100% accurate. I know you’d do it, but boy will it be hard. I’d be inclined to just not mention the possibility at all.

As for the inheritance, yours will be substantial how about splitting 3 ways as you always intended, but of Dd1 portion she gets a nominal amount so she is still included and the rest of her share in trust between her DCs until they are 25 which is late enough to avoid lb influence. You can always change it if things change in the future.

This is very sensible and as already mentioned could be changed if DD1 was to divorce LB. Presumably the will would have to be updated anyway as other DGC arrive? Thanks
SoonbeSpringtime · 05/01/2022 17:17

I appreciate I may be speaking out of turn as I haven't even said Hello yet, but I have been reading the last two threads and thinking about your situation @Chopinandchampagne It's just never seemed the right time to comment as others have more background knowledge and ideas than I do.

That said
As for the inheritance, yours will be substantial how about splitting 3 ways as you always intended, but of Dd1 portion she gets a nominal amount so she is still included and the rest of her share in trust between her DCs until they are 25 which is late enough to avoid lb influence. You can always change it if things change in the future.
was something going through my mind, with the Trustrees to be your other daughters. As any inheritance is solely from you, I think their Aunts would be best placed to safeguard the DGCs interests at the appropriate time.

I'll come back some other time with my wider thoughts, when I can perhaps condense them down somewhat. Meanwhile, all good wishes Flowers

tribpot · 05/01/2022 19:43

I agree with all the other posters and just wanted to add it's really really important you don't get dragged into any discussion about why you're banned from visiting. My guess is that LB wants you to ask so that he can reiterate his demand for that letter you should never have offered to write. Don't give him the opportunity - if DD1 mentions obliquely that you can't visit just say 'well of course you're so busy now, anyway have you heard that DD2 '.

Of course no presents for the baby except cash, since anything you do buy will be thrown back at you.

And for your wills I agree, the amounts held in Trust with your other daughters as Trustees. DD1 doesn't need to know anything about this for now, and your will can be revised later if she breaks free of LB.

Littlepaws18 · 05/01/2022 21:07

Rather than make an excuse about not visiting, which will no doubt be used as an axe to grind in the future I.e your mother didn't care enough to come when gc was born etc. She knows the exact reason why you can't come, so instead say I'm always here for you if you want me to come all you have to do is say and I'll be there in a heartbeat. You haven't invited yourself, you haven't said you won't come, you don't come across uncaring and she is the one who makes the decision.

As for gifts, I'd get the local knitters to knit some cardigans! Handmade, personable and not an expensive gift which will be shipped off to the nearest charity shop. I would secretly also set up a trust fund for your grandchildren for when they turn of age. I know that topic is linked to a previous thread.

The advice you have been given on this thread is fantastic. I myself was in an incredibly physical and emotionally abusive relationship and I never thought about the impact it had on the rest of the family particularly my mom. This thread has truly opened my eyes to my own relationship with my mother and how I'll never take it for granted again. And have hope, you gave her a solid grounding in her childhood and a good foundation of morality. It's well hidden under his dogma currently, but it's there and one day she will realise and one day she will act on it.

Mix56 · 06/01/2022 12:43

"You do realise that his behaviour towards you has actually nothing to do with this? You repeat throughout your threads, that you believe he particularly dislikes you because you once threw him out. It's nothing to do with that at all. It's because you're her mother, and she loves you. Therefore you threaten his overall control of her. There is nothing at all you could have done differently in your behaviour towards him that would have meant you'd end up in a different place now. Nothing at all. I do hope you don't blame yourself."

Yes yes yes, YOU are the biggest threat to his megalomania, the only person that could make DD1 see the light.

I would say to DD, that she knows how much you love her & have missed any meaningful relationship with her, that has been removed by LB. If she needs help, or support she just needs to call & ask, but in the mean time, you will not be hiking across the country to have a meagre 5 minutes with LB's hate oozing out of every pore. or even refused to visit.
The ball is in her court, she is the only one who can break down the walls he has built around her.

FollowYourOwnNorthStar · 06/01/2022 15:24

Hey OP, I’ve read all your other thread and commented on some. I recall with horror her asking you to be party to a signature being forged - as a fellow solicitor this cut me to the quick, as it is at the heart of our professional honour and obligations, and she was disregarding it as though it were nothing.

Your graciousness, thoughtfulness and compassion shines out from every post you make. I wish I could take you out for coffee and cake and spoil you a bit, as I can see that you wish to do for those you love.

You’ve had such good advice on here, I really can’t add to it. Except perhaps to emphasis one point that has been made a different way - there is no point in going over your actions again (specifically throwing LB out 7 years ago), as if you hadn’t done that, he would have waited for the next thing you did to ‘create the drama’. Think about it, and you know it to be true.

It was interesting reading your thread in full tonight, as - having a 1000 mile view on the situation, I could just see and predict some things that happened, but which took you from left field. To continue that, I predict:

  • it will be a difficult birth for DD1, she has already set herself up in opposition to drs and to their medical advice. I don’t want to upset you, but you should consider the a motions ramifications of this.
  • whatever happens, after the birth LB will take DD1 and the DGC to Ireland and far away from people well before she is medically ready to do so. You may be called on for guilt money, in some way to alleviate your daughters distress, or to get access to see you DGS, especially if there are medical conditions.
  • they will continue to fight the solicitors, and put new solicitors and other people in the area off. They seem incapable of getting on with people.
  • the property will never be transferred correctly/have the EU grant to their satisfaction, and this will be an issue. You will be called on or hinted to pay money that would fix the situation, and probably guilt will be used.
  • any baby presents will be wrong. No matter what they are. Even if it was a cow with an accompanying milkmaid to give them all fresh, healthy milk for a year - they would have switched to almond milk for the environment the week before. And if you got a supply of almond milk, you would be accused of not being thoughtful and being too generic with a gift anyone could give.
  • you will buy another cask of whisky, and whilst this may have been ok for the other two DGC, because this is now expected, I bet it ends up being ‘wrong’ somehow.
  • they will find out about the $ you gave to DD2, or spent on a holiday for yourself, or something, and there will be a huge outcry about money.
  • in May DD1 won’t get a new phone (or LB won’t let her) and you will step in and go to great trouble to get a new one for her.
  • along the way DD1 will continue to lean on you when she is in emotional distress (causing you emotional distress at hearing her), but still pull away and hurt you whenever LB requires her to do so.

I hesitate before sending this, as I don’t mean to be cruel. I just don’t want such a lovely, kind woman (who obviously sent those thoughtful Christmas gifts with such love) to be writing about her hurt at rejection again in a years time.

I hope 2022 gives you the gift of being able to put the DD1 you knew ‘on ice’, and store all your love and future thoughts of a relationship there too. This new person is a stranger, don’t give them much engagement, short texts, don’t initiate, keep a door open, but don’t be a doormat. Be brisk. Like you’d respond if a new colleague said she didn’t like the presents and could you return them - “Sorry, you didn’t like them DD1, yet we’re sent with love. Yes, do re-gift or take to charity as you think best. If you really would prefer no presents, then perhaps we should stop now. It seems a shame, but I want to do what makes you happy, darling.”

I agree with others about no offering your opinion. Whatever she says “sounds like you have it all in hand, DD1”. “Small holding? Whatever makes you happy darling.” Concerns over hospital staff/advice? “You are the one in the room, dear, so whatever you think.” Can’t visit new DGS? “Yes, January is so busy, and my February is filling up now too! Let me know when suits you and I’m sure we’ll squeeze something in.”

I’m another one who think that as soon as DD2 or DD3 get married and have children, she will be FaceTiming daily and you will have unrestricted access to her children. Cynically, I think it is because at the moment they are pawns to get money, and then later they will fear they are being supplanted by other DGC and will use them at you.

RandomMess · 06/01/2022 18:18

I have to agree with the last few posters.

I also strongly recommend you start spending your money on you and having some lavish holidays, meals out, spa weekends with or without your younger DDs. Absolutely help them onto the property ladder and don't restrict yourself to what DD1 got. House prices have risen massively since then and you funded her through further studies that she never intends to use.

Being fair isn't the same as handing out the same in time or money.

Absolutely light and airy and superficial with DD1 until she hopefully one day walks away.

Thanks
LadyEloise1 · 06/01/2022 18:44

@FollowYourOwnNorthStar
Great advice.

OrangeBlossomsinthesun · 06/01/2022 19:16

Light and airy and superficial must be your watch words from now on in your dealings with DD.

Immunetypegoblin · 06/01/2022 20:18

I agree completely with FollowYourOwnNorthStar.

mathanxiety · 06/01/2022 20:29

she has already set herself up in opposition to drs and to their medical advice.

I would not be so sure that the DD is the one who is opposed to doctors and medical advice here.

I think this man is disturbed enough to see everyone with any potential influence over DD as a threat to his authority/ monstrous ego, including doctors who might be vital to her and his own baby.

When you go grey rock, make sure you choose your words to her to emphasise warmth and deep affection, and honoring her preference as to visiting. Everything you say will be analysed by him and presented to her in the worst possible light, so make sure it's warm and loving, with as little as possible that he can twist. He is going to try despite everything, but as others have said, this isn't on you - you can't win with this man. Just do your utmost to give him as little ammunition as possible.

This man is a possible family annihilator, I am convinced of it.

That is why I would try my utmost to contact local community leaders/mandatory reporters in Ireland and tell them what you know of his coercive control over the DD and the children and his hostility toward anyone seeking to establish links with the family or to give support to DD and the children in any way.

NearlyAHoarder · 06/01/2022 20:57

It's true what posters say, he doesn't hate you because of anything to do with you. It's because you would show her mercy if he was trying to leave her with two options; be homeless or do what he demanded.

The fact that she can always go to her family means he has to watch himself.

When I left my abusive x, he berated my Dad for taking me in Confused It really frustrated him that my Dad took us in.

I don't know whether this is better or worse but she may not be brain washed, she might just know on a really factual level that nothing is worth it. Let everything slide. Sad

Rightshoardingsaurus · 06/01/2022 21:54

I’ve commented on previous threats and Lobster Boy in various guises and feel very sad just how much hurt both of them caused you. However, there comes a point when you have to acknowledge the fact that your D1 isn’t just an innocent victim in this but also one of your abusers. It simply is not ok to be this cruel to your parent, regardless of how much coercive control her H subjects her to. She knows where you live and has your number, the ball is in her court and she actually has to show some consistency in her contact and behaviour. I think you need to pull even further back. She is no longer a child but an adult that needs to be held accountable for her actions. It is simply outrageous that she expected you to mentally prostrate yourself in front of her ridiculous pompous brat of a partner. She knows that you have done nothing wrong and continues to set you up. Sometimes as a parent, you have to distance who yourself, like you would with an addict. Her behaviour is pretty nasty and rather than reading her temporary closer contact as positive, I am inclined to see it as calculating and be very suspicious of her motives, such as getting further funds from you. She comes across as a very scheming and quite cruel person who brought her ‘shit’ to your door literally and then stabbed you in the back, when you tried to help her as her then boyfriend tried to harass her in your home. She will have quite a tough time in Ireland, well, tough shit! Actions have consequences.

Billybagpuss · 07/01/2022 06:52

I take it they’ve now categorically said you can’t see ds?

Sadly I agree with pp, you just need to say ‘look I’m not playing this game any more’ and take a step further back. If she mentions a visit can you say that you’d love to see ds when are they going to come it’s not reasonable for you to travel alone, with the possibility of the dangled visit being withdrawn at the last minute.

As for your will, just to clarify my pp, I know you already have her share split between her and dc but I would reduce hers to a nominal amount like £10k and put the rest in trust for dc. It can always be changed if the situation changes.

SoonbeSpringtime · 07/01/2022 10:28

@Chopinandchampagne I did say I'd come back with some thoughts, so I'll precis and be quite matter of fact, although I fully appreciate and understand all the emotional turmoil having been through similar. I definitely know it's far from easy.

• I think you do what I used to do and analyse too much and too deeply about past (and recent) events and understandably dwell on them. This stems from the belief that as a mother it's your job to make everything right. Once your children are independent adults this is no longer your role and it's much better for your own sanity to let some things lie. Do as others have said and stand by with open arms waiting to catch DD should she fall that way. LB's influence and DD's current attitude show that you won't come out of this situation by using logic and kindness alone.

• I wouldn't book a holiday for around the due date for your next DGC. Don't give them any ammunition to criticise your interest and availability, even while contact is denied. Go away later on a very neutral date

• Take a lead from what's being said and if you would like to send gifts make them basic, ethically sourced and practical. Cashmere gloves are lovely and are warm, but serve as a reminder of your more luxurious and secure lifestyle, not theirs. They'll also serve as a reminder to DD of what she's now missing. I'd look for Fairtrade thermal layers or similar to suit their circumstances

• Above all reassure yourself that you and your late DH did your very best for your children and raised lovely daughters. You're seeking answers, but sometimes, given that we all have free will and we all take on influences from the wider world, there just is no explanation why situations like this occur. Sit tight, remain loving but bland and wait it out.

• Meanwhile, take good care of yourself this year and enjoy the daughters who are close to hand

I wish you well Flowers

BorsetshireBanality · 07/01/2022 12:20

The more babies born by CS section, and the shorter the recovery/healing time, means there may be scar tissue making further births/sections increasingly dangerous.

I really hope that LB doesn’t push for more babies (forbidding contraception or just him wanting more boys etc.) for DD1s sake.

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