I don't think I will be allowed to see my new grandchild.

[Chopinandchampagne]

Some of you may remember my previous threads regarding my relationship with my daughter and SIL.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/4145356-SIL-and-money-issues?msgid=109152806#109152806

It has been a difficult year, following the death of DH, with lots of firsts to get through, but I have just about survived, with a lot of support from DD2 and DD3, DH's family and friends. And, earlier in the year, DD1 told me she was expecting DGS1 in early January. This time she told me very shortly after the pregnancy was confirmed, and was clearly thrilled saying that 'new life' was coming after DH's death. She was delighted to find out that the baby is a boy, as SIL particularly wanted a son, after two daughters.

I had thought that, if there were any positives from DH's death - and it is hard to think of any, as I loved him so much - the family might be reconciled and healed. And I was very happy to hear about the baby, although a bit concerned, given the two previous emergency C sections (although I kept my concerns to myself).

DD1 has now moved to Ireland, having purchased a small holding with her inheritance from DH's aunt, as DH drafted his aunt's will so that his share would go to his DC if he were to predecease her. DD1 had sent me photos of the new property, says how much they love it over there, it feels 'so right' etc. They went for about a month and have now returned to the UK for the birth. I thought all was fine with my relationship with DD1, we were having natural conversations, FaceTimes with DGD1 and DGD2, ending conversations with 'I love you; etc.

I had enjoyed picking out some Christmas presents, which I thought they would enjoy. With the DGDs, I have sent presents which I knew they would appreciate, for DD1 some cashmere hat, gloves, scarf etc, and socks for baby, as I know it will be cold on the small holding, but also a food hamper, chocolates and candles sent jointly to DD1 and SIL, saying with love from Mum etc.

I spoke to DD1 on Friday and I could tell that there was something wrong, as she seemed more tense, less relaxed. She started by saying that she thought I should claim a refund for the hamper, that I had wasted my money, as the ham was too dry and not as good as supermarket ham. I thanked her for letting me know and said I would do so. She said the chocolates had too many additives, so they couldn't eat them (I had chosen dairy and soy free ones, as DGD1 had an allergy to dairy), so I said fine, just regift or donate them. They are generally happy with the DGC's toys, although I shouldn't send anything else. I said I understood, and was conscious that they wouldn't want too much stuff to take back to Ireland.

Then I asked her about how she was feeling and how the 36 week scan had gone. It seems that the baby is small (10th percentile), although appears healthy, but she is very worried about the birth, which is understandable, given the history. She wants a natural birth and is terrified of intervention. She thinks some of the medical staff are horrible and referred to one who asked her last time if she wanted a dead baby on her conscience, after she refused medical advice to have an elective C section. I made reassuring comments. She also said that she might not tell anyone when she went into labour as she didn't want to worry anyone, such as SIL's grandparents (last time she sent me messages before the birth and we spoke afterwards).

We then had a discussion about Ireland. They have run into some problems to do with the Forestry/Agricultural Commission which are preventing them from obtaining a felling licence and flock number, which they need to purchase animals. It seems that not all of the land has been conveyed to them and they have fallen out with the solicitor, whom they feel has been negligent. SIL spent a long time composing a letter and was angry when he only received a brief reply from the solicitor.

Anyway, after all that, I said that I and her sisters were looking forward to seeing the baby, especially after not seeing DGD1 as a baby, and DGD2 because of lockdown. She went a bit quiet and was non committal just saying Mmm, we'll see, I need to have the baby first. I pressed the point and she said 'SIL is my husband'. I said 'Yes, I know'. She said that I had tried to make her feel guilty over her treatment of DH and that she didn't feel guilty. She repeated this and then said that I had said that I was going to write SIL a letter in the summer and that it might now be too late. I was genuinely taken aback by this.

For context, before I visited in the summer, we had a heated conversation where I said that she had hurt DH (and me) by not telling him about the birth of DGD1 for 14 months or her marriage and by moving without telling us. I admit I was angry as I felt that DH had been cheated of precious time with his granddaughter, although I said that I knew she hadn't known that he was going to die. I said that I thought that she had been emotionally abusive in 'ghosting' us and I didn't want to form an attachment to my DGCs if there was a risk of it happening again. It would just be too painful. It made me afraid of loving them as I would wish to. DD1 had referred then to the incident, some years before, where I had made SIL leave my house (they weren't married then), as I felt he was bullying her. I said that it was all a long time ago and that 'Dad didn't do anything wrong, did he?', to which she replied 'No'. She said that SIL had told her not to be in contact.

I subsequently said, in another conversation, that I had been angry, but that I wasn't any longer, and that it would be nice if we could go out to lunch together, just the two of us, when I visited, and to start rebuilding our relationship. I duly visited, had what I thought was a very pleasant day with the family at a local attraction, then lunch with DD1 then next day. I said I thought that the previous day had gone well and she said that SIL had told her that he did not want me to visit too often (this was the first time I had visited since DH's funeral). I said that I was sorry to hear this and was there some way of resolving matters; that the 'incident' was all a long time ago, that it was time to move on, and that DH's death put disagreements into context. She said maybe I should say that to SIL and it was him I should be taking out or talking to. I said I would be happy to talk to him, but I doubted that he would want to go out with me, maybe I should write him a letter. So I floated the idea of a letter in a private conversation with DD1, but did not say that I was definitely going to write one and, upon reflection, I thought that it might be too much of a hostage to fortune.

During this lunch, which was mostly pleasant, and focusing on neutral topics, DD1 repeated again that she had cut us off because SIL had told her to, that she had had to choose and would always choose SIL. I said that I had made SIL leave my house on that occasion because I was trying to protect her, especially given her previous abusive relationship. She said she had not told SIL about this ie the previous relationship and she was not sure if she would behave in the same way as I did. She said she appreciated that I did not know that she would marry SIL at the time. I said that I understood that, in the final analysis, she would and should put her family first, but I thought she should also have some loyalty to her original family. After that, we returned to everyday topics and I thought we had both had a pleasant lunch, 'cleared the air', and that we were moving forward in rebuilding our relationship. However, it seems I was wrong.

When we returned to the house after lunch (for me to call a taxi back to the hotel), SIL went off to his workshop without speaking to me or saying goodbye. I went to the workshop and said goodbye and gave him a hug. I found it a gruelling trip without DH but went away thinking it had gone well.

Anyway, back to the present, I was blindsided by DD1's comments in the conversation to the effect that I should have written a letter and that it might be 'too late'. I said what did she think I should say in the letter. I said that it was all so long ago, that I had apologised to SIL, that we had met since then at DD1's 21st, that he had said we were 'ok'.DD1 said she didn't want anything that would upset her after the birth. I said that I would never do anything to upset her after the birth. I said that I was nice to SIL, praised him for his DIY skills and as a father, that I behaved in a civilised fashion, sent him cards and gifts, what more could I do, I couldn't make him like me. At this stage DD1 was clearly agitated and said she had to go and that she would speak to me another time. I said 'Alright darling, good bye'.

So I feel both devastated and empty at the same time. I had thought, after the most hellish two years, when I had to watch my beloved DH die and then lose his aunt, whom I was close to. When, more recently, my MIL nearly died, my sister in law has had major surgery, and I have lost one of my closest friends (the funeral is this week), I had thought that I had just about survived. I keep giving myself a talking to, saying come on, just one more step forward, nearly there, nearly the end of the year. And now this.

I apologise for the length of this post, but I would be grateful for any advice as to how handle the situation. Part of just feels like giving up, but I obviously don't want to lose DD1 again, and I am worried about the birth of DGS and would have wanted to be a support, not an aggravating factor.

To me (and I may be wrong!), the way you interact with your DD depends on whether you believe she is in an abusive relationship and her behaviour reflects this, or if you believe she is in agreement with LB and what is happening between you is with her full knowledge and consent.
If it's the former, please continue to be kind and supportive whatever happens - she will need your help at some point in the future.
If it's the latter, I'm not sure there is anything you can do to resolve it except wait and hope for change. And also be kind. You've got to have faith that kindness will win in the end.

for you

I think it will be difficult to step away with the worry for you with the imminent birth and the risks DD1 and LB are preparing to take. So I don't think you should cut them off at this moment despite the pain you are feeling. Guard your heart though and keep the communication brief

As the daughter who watched how my brother treated both my parents I can only re-empahise REignbow point.

' As hard as it is, you need to let go over this notion of having a loving relationship with DD1 and your grandchildren. The only relationship they want is of monetary handouts and gifts. Do you not recall, that they were phoning constantly to you/her uncle regarding when they would get the inheritance last year?'

My mother in her last months had untreatable cancer. It was horrendous. My father was heartbroken. I spent half my time caring for mum and most of it organising NHS nursing care for end of life at home and helping dad.

Mum was well aware of what my brother was like and had cut him off from her personal funds. My brother - after a dreadful scene in the hospital where he was rolling on the floor screaming and crying 'what about me who will look after me now' whilst mum called for the nurses to call security and ban him from the ward. Knowing THAT cash cow was well and truly shut off to him he then changed his focus and set out to use the fact my dad was so distracted and upset to financially bleed him dry. Up until that point dad would never have let him but he could not cope with the endless phone calls that beat him down. My brother kept up a unpredicatable round of 'crisis' after 'crisis' that only my dads money could help solve. The amount ran into many tens of thousands. I only found this out when I saw dads cheque books on the day dad died.

Instead of being able to grieve on the day after both had died I had to act and freeze all their bank accounts as I discovered my brother had blagged mums house keys from hospital security and had been into their home and taken their bank cards. The screaming abuse I had on his discovery the bank cards he had would not work and give him access to their savings proved it was the sane thing to have done.

All my brother wanted was every single last penny and jottle that their joint estate ever had. Thank God my parents had the sense to set up a rock solid and legally binding trust will. He challenged that all the way through and took everything he could lay his hands on. He tried to bully me as the executor to get the estate to pay his legal fees in challneging their wills. TBH looking back it is possible he came from the same totally self-absorbed, entitled and selfish kind of mindset as LB. He even tried to move into their house and have it made out in his name 'so they could avoid inheritance tax'. I advised strongly against that one!

What my kind, caring and loving parents could not do over the years was leave my brother to face the consequences of his choices, gross over spending and frankly entitiled to everything attitude. It ended badly.

My parents went above and beyond to keep the door open in the hope he would reform. They gave endless time, money, love and resources all of which he took and never did anything constructive with. When he finally imploded and died I was releived as I was at the point of going NC as everytime he called me all he wanted was more money, more of mums and dads stuff, more, more, more......it was utterly relentless and unsaitable.

I think it will be a very, very long time before I reach the point I can let go of how cruel, manipulative, greedy and selfish he was in my parents last years. TBH I wish they had gone uber low contact, changed their phone numbers- anything- other than be manipulated and used so they could have enjoyed their last times together without worrying what my brother would try to do to them next.

For the record- I choose uber low contact with him once I had probate and I am sorry to say - I am glad he is dead because I no longer have to worry what nasty manipulative thing he might try and do next to get even 'more'.

As hard as it is to do, sometimes you need to put in serious bounderies to protect yourself and those you love who love you from those you love. Protecting adults from the consequences of their own choices and actions simply does not help or work. People need to fail before they can begin to realise what is truly important and what really matters in life.

@triballeader

Very much agree with tribal that protecting adult children from the consequences of their actions is a bad thing. It keeps your children in a sort of arrested adolescent state. It may feel easier or better in the short term but it causes longer term pain.

Thank you for your replies.

Random - you have clearly found an excellent coping strategy, which I would benefit from emulating, instead of letting things pile up on me. However, even after a few days without any communication from DD, I am already feeling better, calmer.

REignbow - thank you for reminding me of the inheritance situation last year. You are right, that they were pestering me with 'phone calls and, when I said I am not the executor, you will need to speak to DH's brother, DD just messaged BIL to ask when the money would be available (DH's aunt hadn't been dead very long). She didn't even call, just sent a text, although she said that DH's brother sent her lovely messages in reply, wishing them well in their new home etc. BIL is a total gentleman, just as DH was. I had been thinking maybe my gifts were inappropriate, and that LB and DH just seek a simple life and don't want me to 'waste' my money on them, when you reminded me of this incident, which doesn't quite fit with the modest, not spending my money scenario.

User - thank you for your post. I think we have all come across personality types like you describe, LB being a case in point. I did have a trial session with another therapist today, who specialises in bereavement, having lost her own DH 13 years ago. She was another kind soul and I have booked another session. However, I suspect that to obtain the in depth advice about psychological patterns of abuse etc, I may need to find a trained psychiatrist or psychologist. Sometimes, it seems like looking for a needle in a haystack, as it is hard to find independent reviews as you can with other professional service providers. I suppose it is trial and error.

Flying - I honestly don't know whether or not DD is in an abusive relationship, or chooses to go along with it. Part of me thinks that the relationship is abusive, especially forcing DD to cut off from her family and friends. Then again, in some respects she seems happy, with her own home and family, and she just seems to worship LB, to the extent where she hands over all responsibility to him to make important decisions. She has implicit trust in him, to the extent that if he said black were white, I think she would believe him. I think that, over the passage of time, he has gone a long way in persuading her that her family leave a lot to be desired even if, at some level, she still loves us. And that really hurts, as DD used to be so proud of her family. Unfortunately, DD's favourite novels were Tess Of The d'Urbervilles and Wuthering Heights. Why couldn't she just have gone for Elizabeth Bennett, like the rest of us?

tribal - thank you so much for the post, which must have been very painful to write. I am so sorry to hear about your family situation. You and SirVix are right about allowing adult DC to live their own lives and deal with the consequences.

I do think this is an abusive relationship Chopin, he is extremely controlling. I find it hard to understand why she worships him though, what do you think attracted her to him ? I understand the dynamics as my first boyfriend was very controlling, and hated my family and friends. I didn’t worship him though, I really hated it, I just got a bit stuck as I was afraid of him. Eventually I ended it.
I know how it feels to be so exhausted from the emotional manipulation that you can’t progress or make plans to leave. What I don’t understand is how your dd can look up to such a horrible man . Maybe once she was pregnant she felt completely tied to him ? Have you seen any chinks of light at all, hints that she may see sometimes see another side to him ?

Hi Chopin. Have you had any advice on how to look for a counsellor or therapist?

It sounds to me as if you put Bereavement as top of your list in what you are looking for, when your posts are actually all about complex relationships and family dynamics (with some bereavement mixed in). Without the added stress of your DD, I do not think your bereavement would have been as difficult if you see what I mean.

You need to be looking for a BACP registered counsellor as a minimum. I'd search for those near you and then have a read of their bios and websites. Practically everyone will say bereavement as this is such a common reason for seeking counselling so ignore this, especially if that is ALL they do, it's not enough.

You also want someone who is trained in several modalities of counselling - this is usually put in the shorthand of 'integrative' or 'eclectic' which I always thought sounded offputting but are actually selling points.

I hope this helps in what you are looking for - you are not looking for a psychologist and definitely not a psychiatrist (it's a different role). Just looking through some bios, seeing any that have lots of clinical experience, especially any with domestic violence experience as then they will know about coercive control relationships would be perfect for you.

Also you should phone up therapists and have a chat about the issues and see if you click.

I agree that you need support to distance yourself emotionally from DD1 and step out the abuse triangle. The bereavement support is needed but secondary to that.

Echoing @AnnaMagnani's excellent advice about looking for a therapist/counsellor. Particularly about bereavement not being the primary focus for you, given what most of your posts are about.

A good counsellor trained in these dynamics is worth their weight in gold and will be aware of 'when to look at your boundaries' (dealing with my LB) and 'when to look at your role' (dealing with my boss). Mine helped me a lot and my mental health/happiness is a million times better for it - as long as I maintain my boundaries!

@Chopinandchampagne ... I have just stumbled upon your thread, and been drawn into it.

Firstly, let me say how much I approve of your username! The choice of which always poses a challenge, and I love your version. I'm not sure which I like best. Possibly Chopin. With a glass of very cold champagne on the top of the piano ...

You have such an elegant mind, and a natural impulse to arrange everything around you into the calm and happy. It is this instinct for tranquility which has, I think, been most awfully disturbed and actually trashed - disregarded, or misread, seen as an attack rather than the salve it really is - by the turbulent, resentful, self-serving influence of LB on DD1's life and behaviour.

Because he surely is the canker here.

My father had a long archive of very accurate Yorkshire truths, one of which was 'There's no defence against straight abuse. All you can do is get out of the way.' And this is what you need to do.

The attacks on you and your family's gentle, honest, positive perspective are, quite simply, brutal and base. You, as the remaining parent, now find your own deep grief ignored, or even used as another stick to beat you with. LB is sadistic in his wielding of power. As an example, his attitude towards DD's fear and the impending birth, and his ruling that you are 'never to see' your own grandchild. Quite frankly, how dare he. A child is nobody's possession, not even his.

I haven't time to write more now, but wanted just to join my voice with others in saying that you are indeed embattled, and I'd like to help you too, with anything useful I can suggest in how to get through. Because you will get through, one way or the other. I hope this support helps to make the path smoother and kinder for you. I think your strengths in this challenge are your humility, intelligence and loving nature. These qualities must work to see you through.

I'm so sorry DH isn't here, but then, of course, you know he is, and you can always hear his voice and thoughts and love for you. You have only to close your eyes and be still and listen to him.

I've read your posts before and it's always so obvious that she's being co trolled BUT there's got to come a point where she makes a decision and she's already told you she will always pick SIL.

As sad as it is, leave her to it, she's in deep and until she wants to do something about it there's nothing at all you can do to change the situation. She's her own person, don't force the relationship on her if she doesn't want it as much as you.

@SirVixofVixHall - if I remember correctly there was a lot of extreme stress and intensity at the beginning of LB/DD1 relationship - so an emotional roller coaster with some deep lows and intermittent highs which form a trauma bond. It’s almost like he distressed her so much and opened up a wound and dependency that he enmeshed himself into to dominate and exclude all of her family and friends so that he is in total control.

There is no doubt from all of the events over the years that DD1 is in an extremely coercively controlling abusive relationship - on every level from fertility to financially.

However currently she is so emotionally merged and enmeshed with him (almost physically as he rarely leaves her side 24/7) she is also participating in emotionally abusing Chopin - and Chopin may also be in some sort of trauma bond with her own daughter.

Bit of insight on to trauma bonding here which explains the irrational.

www.healthline.com/health/mental-health/trauma-bonding

I've read your post and your initial post from earlier in the year.

From what I've read: you sound lovely and I know it's easy for me to say but I would just leave them to it.

Your son in law sounds like an absolute shit and as for your daughter, yes it sounds like she probably is in an emotionally abusive relationship but she sounds hard work, frustrating and doesn't seem interested in receiving any help / support.

I would videocall your daughter and ask to speak to your grandkids regularly. I would be friendly and polite but wouldn't really engage with your daughter or SIL.

Concentrate on your other children, and try and keep in contact with your grandkids. It's all you can do. Don't prostate yourself any further - your SIL is loving it and it isn't getting you anywhere.

He sounds like such a prick. She'll either realise this or she won't, but being there supporting her clearly isn't working so I'd just back off. That might make her think.

Thank you for your replies.

SirVix - Initially, DD had concerns about LB, that he was exercising controlling behaviour - examples I have mentioned being that he tried to stop her going on holiday with her friends, and was laying down the law to the other tenants in DD's house at university (even though he was not a tenant himself). He would tell DD that she did not stick up for herself and seems, over a period of time, to have persuaded DD that he is her knight in shining armour, that she needs him to protect her. And I think that there is a part of her that likes someone to lean on and to feel protected and that, accordingly, her dependence on him has grown. And now, of course, they are tied together by the children.

I did wonder, after she had told me about the situation with the tenants, how long it would be before LB decided that she needed to be protected from her own family. But I also sense that she has learned to appease him, to play by his rules, that is her life now and that her birth family are collateral damage. I honestly believe that, if I were to die, she would not come to the funeral - saying that it would be too difficult with the distance and the DC and the dogs, but she would still be wanting everything she could get from my estate, seeing it as her entitlement, as LB would persuade her that it is rightfully hers. They even contemplated not coming to DH's funeral, although they were only a couple of hours' drive away at the time. I said to her 'you are coming aren't you?' and she said that she had to talk to LB about it. Then the next day, her exact words were 'It has been decided that we shall come'.

Anna and Random - thank you so much for the advice about therapists, that is really valuable information. I will look for a new therapist in the new year. slippery, I am so pleased to hear that finding the right therapist worked out so well for you.

Aphrodite - I love your user name too and thank you for such a lovely, supportive post, especially your words about DH. I do like to think that his presence is still around me. I agree that children are nobody's possessions and I really don't understand why LB wouldn't want me to have a relationship with them and with DD, even if he hates my guts and doesn't want to see me, personally. I am polite and nice to him, genuinely try hard to forge some sort of a relationship, and never speak ill of him to DD (and of course I would never speak ill of him to the DGC). I wouldn't be any trouble. I am not saying that I would be the best granny, not least because I live so far away, but I would not be the worst. either. I would like to play with them, to talk to them, to spend time with them, to listen to what they have to say, and to encourage them in their talents and passions. Above all, I would love them. As I have said to both LB and DD, I wish nothing but good things for them.

However, as bigred and yourestanding rightly say, I can't foist myself on them or force a relationship which they do not want. I think that DD would like to have a relationship with her family, but LB makes it so difficult that she is inevitably getting to a stage where it isn't worth the aggravation. I think that she was thrilled when we were back in touch for a while, which is why she inundated me with messages, trying to make up for lost time, trying to go back to where we were, also to make it up to me, in a sense, for the time we had lost. She would also keep FaceTiming and looked so happy to be talking to me with the DGC, as though we had just turned back the clock.

With hindsight, why couldn't I have accepted that? Well, I did accept it to a large extent, and was very happy to be back in touch. But I was so upset by what had happened, so scared at being hurt again, that I was afraid to really love my DGC, to put may heart out there, my vulnerability, because I felt that I honestly couldn't go through all that pain again.And so, I thought we were getting somewhere that, as the trust was being rebuilt, that I needed to have an explanation, why it had all happened, so that it wouldn't happen again. I wanted our relationship to be authentic, like other families, who have rows, and clear the air, and make up, with a better understanding. But that was a mistake, because LB will never allow a 'normal' relationship, it has to be strictly on his terms, or not at all.

But I do now realise that this situation cannot continue and that I need to step back, as so many of you have advised me. I struggled so much last time, it was so excruciatingly painful, but I had DH to support me, and the difference is that now I don't have DH, and all my reserves of strength are severely depleted.

When I attended my friend's funeral last week, there were a number of people there whom I knew from when we worked for the same law firm. I spent a while chatting with one woman, whom I had actually recruited, many years ago. She is bright and confident and amusing, a forceful but charming character. She was joking about her DC and how she was, in effect a 'Tiger mother', that when she called her son's halls of residence, the other students knew who she was and that she was not to be messed with. The love for her DC shone out, but she also had the confidence, to be that matriarch figure, as others have mentioned up thread. It's a confidence that goes with the belief that your children will always love you, even if you get things wrong from time to time. And I thought - that is how I used to be - but no longer, I don't know who I am, just a shadow of that confident woman I used to be.

And I can see why women become ground down and keep going back to their abuser, even when they have a support network around, which she doesn't. When I was a young barrister, still 'wet behind the ears', I would represent some of these women and I would think, why don't you just leave, but now I know that it is not so easy. I don't even have any communication with LB, but I feel ground down and a bit terrorised. I can't believe that I was even contemplating writing the letter to him. That is just not the confident woman I used to be. How must it be for someone who is with him 24/7, living in an isolated situation, probably with no access to money, with no family, friends, or other support.

ESGdance - thank you for another brilliant insight. My DH used to think that it was maybe a form of 'Stockholm syndrome', which I think is a similar situation to what you describe. I think that she just does as he says, regardless, hence the hesitancy and then saying that LB was her DH, before telling me that she wouldn't be telling anyone (ie me) when she went into labour, and that I needed to write a letter to LB before they would consider whether or not I could meet DGS. In that sense, at least Covid is a sort of get out for all of us. Even if I were allowed to go, I would be afraid that I would travel hundreds of miles and LB would find a reason at the last minute to refuse his permission, in order to humiliate me, and then I would be alone. If I had DH with me, it would have been different, but I don't. Also, DD said that she didn't want to be upset after the birth, so I think that she must anticipate that there could be tension and, of course, I don't want her to have any additional stress.

Sorry, I am rambling on, just feeling a bit low today.

I think, @Chopinandchampagne we all do what we think we need to do to survive and your daughter is no different. She got together with LB, he ‘helped’ her in some way to ‘deal’ with the other tenants in her uni accommodation and she was sucked in. She possibly started off feeling grateful and like she owed him and now, to deal with him on a day to day basis (he really is an utter shit) she has taken on his thinking and methods. It’s a bit like those religious cults that start off fixing something for you and then suck you in.
I do think you need to have a conversation with her where you reiterate your love for her and the children and tell her you will always be there for her and then regardless of anything. Then quietly and gently, work on detaching yourself. It won’t mean you have given up on her. It doesn’t mean you don’t love them. It doesn’t mean you won’t keep in touch. In your own head and heart, detach. You can’t do anymore and your daughter is as complicit in the bad behaviour as LB is. Keep in touch, keep it bright and loving but no more money and gifts. It’s giving him an excuse as you’ll always do the wrong thing.
One day she may wake up to it all or she may not. You don’t deserve this treatment, you sound like a thoughtful intelligent woman.

And I thought - that is how I used to be - but no longer, I don't know who I am, just a shadow of that confident woman I used to be.

I just want to put my arms around you and hug you, reading that @Chopinandchampagne. You will find yourself again, you really will.

I too want to give you a hug @Chopinandchampagne and say you will get through this.
Your dd2 and dd3 need you.
They must not feel all your energy is going in to "fix" the relationship with dd1.
That "fix" can't happen until dd1 sees the light. Sees the malevolent partner for what he that she has hooked up. It may never happen.
Don't waste time on it. It's not in your power.

Super advice on here. Almost 100% saying step back.

How is he getting on with his parents now ?
You had mentioned before there was a crack in that relationship because they didn't jump to his call.

Take care.

I think your last post shows clarity. I'm sorry you're feeling low.

Hi Chopin So so sorry you are being treated appallingly again and that you are feeling low today .

We had a very similar situation with our daughter and have posted about it on your previous threads .

I agree it does sound as if you are thinking more clearly, Maybe stepping back and concentrating on the people in your life who actually wanted to be with you and who don’t treat you with such cruelty will highlight just how damaging it is trying to have a relationship with DD1. Not just damaging to you but damaging to those who love you .

Just concentrate on your lovely, supportive Dd2 and 3 and focus on planning some exciting trips in 2022 ( fingers crossed travel will be easier by then ) I’m sure you’ll soon find that confident woman again !

I know how blooming painful this is though . 💐

Made me well up reading your post Chopin.
It is really shocking to read about the funeral. Her lovely Dad, I just can’t take in that callous response.
In the paragraph where you talk about previously not understanding why women stay - that is what I was trying to ask, because for women like that, women who are basically terrorised into acquiescence and live with daily fire fighting, there are the “chinks” .Someone might not have the resources to leave, or they might be too scared to leave, but deep down they really want to be free of the person they are scared of, and that is your way in, to help.

Does your dd now ever seem scared of LB ? She really does sound more like someone in a cult, the adoration, the religion like structure to her life, the cutting off of love towards her family and friends. 

I know all this must be a thousand times worse now, at Christmas. I am missing my parents terribly, it highlights all the gaps in a family , and I am so sorry.

@Chopinandchampagne you're very welcome, and I just hope we are helping you. You really aren't alone. So many kind thoughts and useful wisdom will always be here for you.

Speaking as a survivor of Stockholm syndrome, trauma bonding and all of it - yes, that's what she has, without a doubt. Someone spoke about the chinks in this defence she has about her (which keeps her in). The chinks will be there. But also, you being there and always accepting, always dependable, is the best role you can play right now.

Maybe you could somehow lead her back to that more comfortable place of the FaceTiming and messaging? And I'd suggest no pussy-footying around and being nice to it about LB - just don't mention him. Focus on her and the DGC.

But yes, as others say: be judicious now in how much attention you give her. Immerse yourself in your other DC and GDC. She is in prison. :(

Xxx

I feel very sorry for you in your horrible situation. I think it's clear that your daughter is in some kind of abusive relationship but I wonder whether you are also being emotionally abused by him/them?
You have been conditioned to question and worry over every interaction you have with them, be it gifts or visits or even opinions.
It's easy for outsiders to look in and say, "tell him to shove it," and I know it's easier said than done. For your own health though, I really do think you have to step away.
for you.

I think as far as gifts go moving forward just send small practical things for the DGC - jumpers, vests, t-shirts - bland.

If you are still criticised for them I would tell her that ok you won't send anything anymore.

You cannot win on the front they already bled you dry buying them tablets and other expensive items.

Certainly no more ordering things on her behalf!

I am very low contact with my parents (well only Dad now) and I absolutely expect no help or £ from them because why should they when the have no real relationship with them.

It hurts that my brothers DC are getting all the financial benefit but that's life and the price for not having people that make me mentally unwell in my life.