Wife and male thread. Not sure about it

[Enginesear]

I have a situation that could really do with some level headed mumsnet wisdom please, before I try and navigate it, because I just don’t know if I have genuine cause for concern, or am just overthinking and being paranoid.

To set the scene. DW and I married for 10 years, with 2 primary school age children. We’ve always had a rock solid relationship with no issues.

We both have a shared interest/hobby, which she has gradually got into, as have the kids, and in recent years she has become the greater enthusiast. Through this she’s made a few new friends, male and female. but this is about one male friend in particular, let’s call him Steve.
DW has struck up a close friendship with Steve. I’ve had no problem with this up til now - she has lots of male friends. I’ve met Steve a couple of times and he seemed amiable and decent.

Steve is single and lives alone elsewhere in the country, but attends most of the events for this interest which happen in our area. My DW, a couple of years back started showing an interest in attending occasional events elsewhere in the country, and stays overnight at Steve’s on those occasions. Again I’ve had no problem with this, trust has never been an issue, and a I’ve never felt any reason to object.

However, recently a few red flags have started waving, that make me worry that there’s more to this friendship, like:

-These overnights at Steve’s have become more frequent, and have become full weekends rather than overnight stays. Two weekends on the trot now planned for after Christmas. This causes a bit of disruption to the kids hobbies/clubs, which I don’t mind now and then, but these weekends away now seem a greater priority to her than the kids clubs, time together as a couple, or anything else that could otherwise have been planned.

-She talks about him a lot. I don’t think she realises how much.

-They text each other a lot. I’m not privy to the contents of these conversations and have never considered it any of my business.

-There’s an event over the Christmas holiday that we’d talked about going to as a family. She seems to be steering me away from going though, insisting that youngest DC won’t want to go (youngest DC has told me he does want to go), which is weird.

There are other subtle little things but these are the main things bothering me.

I feel awful about it because I don’t want to poison the well by saying I’ve got an issue with it, or make her feel like she can’t be friends with who she wants, especially if it turns out that it’s all innocent. On the other hand their friendship is, at the very least, taking up enough space and time to be detrimental to family life. Not sure how I tackle this without implying some sort of impropriety on her part. Any advice, suggestions, head wobbling much appreciated.

I love the way you’re handling it, it’s mature and respectful. If she chooses not to tell the whole story during this discussion or overreacts in any way then I really don’t think you’ll be in any doubt. She’s already crossed your boundaries so it’s on her now to put this right. Sincerely hope it works out for you, you sound so decent.

You do sound like a very decent and lovely person.
Sometimes, though, people will take advantage of your easy going and kind personality.
You are very trusting so if you discuss things with her she will tell you a pack of lies which sound very convincing and you will believe every one.
I would go to this drinks meet-up with her and Steve.

Act normal as if you don’t suspect a thing.
Go off to the loo and watch them from a distance while they think you’re away.

It’s often the most trusting and deeply decent people who get shat on— look at some of the women on here!! Whereas the less trusting and often slightly less ‘nice’ women are in there confronting at the first sniff of anything a bit dodgy — i think a lot of us ‘people pleasers/nice women ‘ are more likely to sustain longer relationships but more prone to be crapped on

Hi and thanks again for all the replies and the support.
I’m going to have to have the chat with her tonight. I have hardly slept or eaten all week, stomach in constant knots. won’t be able to keep that up for any longer so will have to bite the bullet

Good luck OP.

I have to say I agree with the majority here. In the past when I was involved in an emotional affair I denied everything when asked but was finally caught out due to partner's snooping.

I know you have made your decision but I would feel guilty if I didn't make an effort to persuade you that you're making a mistake to talk to her. When my husband had an affair he completely denied, denied, denied and then as things started to come out he would only admit up to the point that there was evidence. I will never know the full picture.

As PP have said, you will probably get nothing from her reaction and will have warned her to be on her guard.

@Enginesear

Hi and thanks again for all the replies and the support. I’m going to have to have the chat with her tonight. I have hardly slept or eaten all week, stomach in constant knots. won’t be able to keep that up for any longer so will have to bite the bullet

Why have you spent the week hardly eating/sleeping, she’s your wife, you should be able to discuss these things with her.

I think you won't get far with a conversation. I asked my dh many times if he was cheating and he looked me in the eye and said No.
I knew something was going on though and kept in checking his phone until I found one short message that he'd forgotten to delete.
You're clearly a very decent person, but if your wife is having an affair, she will not treat you back with dignity.

All relationships are different but if my husband was unhappy about a friendship I had with (Steve) I would absolutely cut all ties with (Steve) because I love and care for my husband and wouldn't want him to feel the way you do and he wouldn't continue a friendship that was causing me to feel this way.
If your wife is willing to put you through this, knowing how it looks and (she's not stupid) knowing how you must feel then I think you have to give yourself the respect she doesn't give you and walk away, you get treated how you allow people to treat you and don't sit her down and give her the opportunity to lie to your face as well, just tell her you are not being part of this triangle anymore.

@Enginesear

Hi and thanks again for all the replies and the support. I’m going to have to have the chat with her tonight. I have hardly slept or eaten all week, stomach in constant knots. won’t be able to keep that up for any longer so will have to bite the bullet

Oh I know that feeling oh so well and totally understand the need to end the uncertainty and get answers, but I really would urge you to be patient for a while longer and try to find some evidence. My OH pretty much laughed in my face and said I was imagining everything, when I, distraught, asked him if something was going on with him and OW.

i am sorry op but i think there is something going on with her and Steve.

i dont know if talking with her will help. it may put her more on guard of deleting any evidence.

but you can say you are not happy with the situation - explain what it is- and need change.

why not go to a relationship counsellor together asap?

Bite the bullet and check her phone.

I know you have said you can’t but I think that a little snooping is the only way you’ll find out.

You owe it to yourself and your mental health to get some real answers.
The conversation with her will only leave you confused.
She may convince you initially and you may feel better for a short time but you will still have doubts which will eat away at you.
You may find yourself back at square one but with her on her guard deleting messages.

If you really can’t do the phone, then conversation followed by PI.

Good luck tonight, your planned talk sounds the most sensible course of action at this point. Fingers crossed it goes well for you & it's innocent on your DWs part.

I said it before and others have said it you really genuinely sound like a lovely guy. Your wife sounds like a fucking idiot who doesn’t appreciate the way that you treat her or the freedom that you give so that she can pursue her hobbies. Just got to look in here to see how many men act nothing like that.
I honestly do hope it turns out to be an oversight on her part, but she must know how it looks and how you are feeling about all this. I can’t think of a single married man who would be ok with his wife spending regular weekends with a single guy so she could do a hobby.
If it is innocent I hope she changes her behaviour pretty damn quick so you don’t have to live with this anxiety. If she doesn’t, that in itself says it all
Good luck mate 👍

Good luck @Enginesear. I admire your restraint re phone. Personally I think when someone has acted in such a boundary-less way and a way that has at best put your family second, they are inviting some scrutiny.

Worth giving some thought to how you ended up here. Looking back were there points at which she suggested certain things (first time she stayed at his) etc where you overrode your own objections and right to say “that makes me feel uncomfortable”. Probably unPC to say it - but in your wife’s position, if I was feeling an attraction to
Steve the fact that my husband didn’t assert himself and protect our relationship might add fuel you my attraction. Even though I totally get your reasons for being cool with it all.

You haven’t responded to any of the queries re your sex life (as is your right) - but if it was fairly sexless to begin with, or has either significantly increased or decreased in frequency since Steve came on the scene - those are red flags too.

You need to talk to her. Don’t accuse her of anything, but explain you are no longer comfortable with the situation. “Look, things have got weird. You’re regularly sleeping over at another man’s house, to the extent that I and the kids are seeing much less of you. How would you feel, if I frequently slept over at a female friend’s house and texted her constantly? Why do you want to be there with him so often and not here with us? What’s going on? We can’t go on the way things are, this is making me miserable and we all miss you. What is missing in our marriage that you have to hang out with another man all the time? Is Steve / the hobby more important than your husband and children? ” Etc

This from @skysblue is exellent advice. It starts from where you've always thought your relationship to be, and hope it still is: a loving, trusting, communicating partnership.

It is a strategic mis-step, as many others have said, if your relationship is no longer what you thought, alerting her and allowing time for deletions and subterfuge.

You're best placed to consider carefully all the signals, what the reality is, and which approach chimes best with your values.

I once felt driven to check a partner's email (long before smartphones), and even as I logged in, before I'd read anything, I realised with shining clarity that the mere act of my doing so meant we had grave problems, no matter what I found; I didn't feel safe, trusting, loved anymore. The emails did show something amiss, but when he got home, the very first thing I did, because it had felt so wrong, was to apologise wholeheartedly for intruding on his email. That was a breach of trust on my part. Then we moved on to the rest. I'd not check email again, although I do understand the reasons why people do.

You sound lovely @Enginesear, I hope a happy outcome for you.

I know everyone sees this differently, but for me trust is part instinct part decision. A part of you feels you could trust this person, the rest of you decides to do it. I don't see it's a terrible thing to question that decision if the person you trusted is starting to behave in a somewhat untrustworthy manner!

Interesting viewpoint @crosshatching. Sort of 'trust, but verify if you have to'? Going to ponder that ...

Good luck OP. In all honesty, I'd be concerned.

Either Steve is interested in her or they are interested in each other.

Don't let her fob you off, listen to your gut.

You are trying so hard to be the perfect non controlling, cool partner that you have allowed a situation to develop where at best you are being taken for granted, and at worst being cheated on. Very few people would find a lot of aspects of your wife's behaviour acceptable, regardless of whether she is actually cheating or not. It is not abusive, controlling or insecure to have boundaries regarding what is acceptable to you, and making these clear to your partner. She seems to be breeching yours, so tell her. Her reaction will be an indicator as to whether this has crossed into betrayal. And don't be manipulated into thinking you're being unreasonable.

@5128gap. Yes OP as previous poster just said, please do keep in mind you are not being remotely unreasonable— in fact you have been far too reasonable in my book. I have been that person !!! this is why I don’t want to see you crapped on— I was a very cool dude about ‘friendships ‘ and my H took it too far, not an affair as such but definitely an infatuation where he wrote songs etc about this other person and then hid them all- I found them all many years later and whilst we haven’t split , for me its soured the relationship somewhat- we still get on but I can never feel 100% the same and that’s why I think you need to get to the bottom of this— it could well be just an emotional entanglement, but if it is it needs nipping in the bud now if she genuinely cares about you

Hi @Enginesear I am sorry you are going through this situation, I know how it feels when you cant sleep or eat. My advice would be to meet with Steve and his friends for the pre drinks, as much as you might feel like smashing his face in. You'll get to see if there's a "vibe" amongst the group, or if your wife seems nervous or different around him. Hell, you might even find out he's gay! See it as an opportunity to make a judgement no matter how difficult it seems. Keep us posted :)

How did it go op?

I'm guessing she admitted everything, told you you weren't imagining things and promised she'd never go to Steve's house again and quit the hobby?

You took the right decision.
I hope all went as well as these things can go and she understood your point of view and will cool down the time with Steve.

I would personally have checked the phone and then spoken with her. Regardless of whether she is romantically involved with Steve, this hobby is taking up too much of family life and seems to be her focus.

This happen to friends of mine. He was interested in live action role play and she then joined in. She became keener that he was so go to events without him or the dc (the dc did it too) and then he had the talk with her.

She denied anything untoward was happening, why was he having ago and being unkind when she was taking an interest in HIS hobby, it was his fault for getting her into it etc. Tried to say that he could spend more money on it to appease him.

He didn’t believe her but didn’t push it as it was his hobby etc Things carried on as they had been and although he was suspicious he kept quiet and then when she was supposed to be at a work social evening, the house phone rang and it was her work friend.

He then logs on to track my phone and finds her at this guys house from the hobby. He texts to see if she is having a nice time and to say hi to work colleague who phoned and the others for him. She then replies work colleague is a bit tipsy so she is going to take her home and crash over.

Needless to say at 7am the next morning, his sister was babysitting and he was sitting outside the house where she was and a divorce was on the cards.