Wife and male thread. Not sure about it

[Enginesear]

I have a situation that could really do with some level headed mumsnet wisdom please, before I try and navigate it, because I just don’t know if I have genuine cause for concern, or am just overthinking and being paranoid.

To set the scene. DW and I married for 10 years, with 2 primary school age children. We’ve always had a rock solid relationship with no issues.

We both have a shared interest/hobby, which she has gradually got into, as have the kids, and in recent years she has become the greater enthusiast. Through this she’s made a few new friends, male and female. but this is about one male friend in particular, let’s call him Steve.
DW has struck up a close friendship with Steve. I’ve had no problem with this up til now - she has lots of male friends. I’ve met Steve a couple of times and he seemed amiable and decent.

Steve is single and lives alone elsewhere in the country, but attends most of the events for this interest which happen in our area. My DW, a couple of years back started showing an interest in attending occasional events elsewhere in the country, and stays overnight at Steve’s on those occasions. Again I’ve had no problem with this, trust has never been an issue, and a I’ve never felt any reason to object.

However, recently a few red flags have started waving, that make me worry that there’s more to this friendship, like:

-These overnights at Steve’s have become more frequent, and have become full weekends rather than overnight stays. Two weekends on the trot now planned for after Christmas. This causes a bit of disruption to the kids hobbies/clubs, which I don’t mind now and then, but these weekends away now seem a greater priority to her than the kids clubs, time together as a couple, or anything else that could otherwise have been planned.

-She talks about him a lot. I don’t think she realises how much.

-They text each other a lot. I’m not privy to the contents of these conversations and have never considered it any of my business.

-There’s an event over the Christmas holiday that we’d talked about going to as a family. She seems to be steering me away from going though, insisting that youngest DC won’t want to go (youngest DC has told me he does want to go), which is weird.

There are other subtle little things but these are the main things bothering me.

I feel awful about it because I don’t want to poison the well by saying I’ve got an issue with it, or make her feel like she can’t be friends with who she wants, especially if it turns out that it’s all innocent. On the other hand their friendship is, at the very least, taking up enough space and time to be detrimental to family life. Not sure how I tackle this without implying some sort of impropriety on her part. Any advice, suggestions, head wobbling much appreciated.

I think so too Steve— most of us who have snooped don’t have anything we can ‘hang a conversation on’ and gauge reaction— your wife must know her behaviour is somewhat off the wall in a committed relationship/marriage and hence it can hardly be a surprise if you start to comment/ask questions. If she does get agitated and you sense something or she starts fiddling with her phone— I would probably ask her to hand it over just so you can ‘ease your mind’

Part of my problem was that I'd never heard of gaslighting back in those days. So if you go in well prepared, you might well do better than me. Read up on possible tactics and don't let her make you feel like a bad person. Think about what you would do, practically, if it's true/if you break up, so she can't threaten you with not seeing the kids, etc. Also, however much of a nice person she might be, make sure she can't empty your bank account and copy important documents; people can act out of character in a panic.
It's a shit time of year for this but stay strong and good luck.

Oops many apologies OP— didn’t mean to call you Steve !!

And hopefully we really are the horrible bitter doomsayers that MN users are generally made out to be! Keeping my fingers crossed that I am a nasty witch for doubting her.

Also a small update: I bought tickets for this event over Christmas, it’s local to us. My wife seemed pleased that we’ll all be there. She did suggest meeting up with the group that includes Steve though - that suggestion can fuck right off.

@ravenmum

And hopefully we really are the horrible bitter doomsayers that MN users are generally made out to be! Keeping my fingers crossed that I am a nasty witch for doubting her.

Ha hopefully! To be fair, I asked how the situation looked from the outside, and got told exactly how it looked.

'Steve' is either an incredibly innocent/naive man who doesn't realise the potential implications of spending this sort of time alone with a married woman, or, he is lacking in morals. Which is it would you say?

The plan is to talk to her about it, set out my point of view and boundaries, without any accusations or insinuating, and gauge her response. She’ll either engage in the conversation and we’ll come to a resolution, or she’ll try and shut me down with gaslighting tactics. And that will tell me, if not explicitly in black and white, more or less what I need to know.

I think this is a good plan. I hope that it works out for you.

Good luck OP. I am on the fence. All is not lost. As much as I want you to snoop the phone, I am in awe of you not doing this. I hope she deserves your trust. Worst case scenario, you could not have behaved with more decency and integrity.

she did suggest meeting up with the group that includes Steve though - that suggestion can fuck right off

I wonder though if you allow her to invite them/him, so you can observe her body language? That might give you your answer!

......many years ago my OH and I were friends with a couple that announced they were splitting up....he had met someone else. The GF seemed very pragmatic and accepting of the situation, but when we were all at a party together shortly after, they both looked very glum, so feeling a bit sorry for them, I suggested to my OH that we ask each of them to dance. While dancing with the man, I looked across the room at my OH dancing with the GF, but huge alarm bells rang after seeing their body language and the way they were looking at each other! It was a complete bolt out of the blue, as I never suspected he had any feelings for her. I confronted him, but of course he denied it, but other subsequent stuff that came to light, makes me 99% certain that something did go on between them.

You should definitely meet with Steve and the group, abs watch their body language with each other as well as how he behaves around you. Invite him to stay, to repay the multiple favours ;)

Trenchcoat detective time! Exciting!

I hope she's not having an affair though, if your relationship has been solid so far then an affair would be... disappointing 🙁 to say the least

@Enginesear

Also a small update: I bought tickets for this event over Christmas, it’s local to us. My wife seemed pleased that we’ll all be there. She did suggest meeting up with the group that includes Steve though - that suggestion can fuck right off.

She wants to invite Steve to a family outing?? Like PP have said, it’s very sus that all these weekend events are near Steve’s house. It’s also ridiculous that she’s prioritising Steve over her family by spending her weekends with him! Did she pack her new underwear for this latest trip?

I really hope she isn't having an affair, however she is very clearly prioritising her friendship (or more) with him over her family life. I would be telling her she needs to look at her priorities honestly.

No she’s suggesting we meet up for a drink with him and his friends beforehand

Might it be worth going, just to observe?
Might it be worth flatly refusing, or be an opening for you to have "the conversation,"?

Bit confused - if Steve lives elsewhere in the country how come he is available to meet up for drinks locally ? Or just a coincidence he is in the area ?

Anyhoo - please update us

@Enginesear I think you are very admirable. I am tempted to check my DH’s phone atm. (His name is not Steve, btw, and he is not traveling for hobbies. Another situation entirely.) I think I’m about to crack.

In my opinion, Enginesear, you are making a mistake by not searching for information. Knowledge is power. Your Wife is detaching—giving less to you/the children and more to Steve. Your family is in a crisis, so unusual measures and interventions are justified. You are looking for the truth.

It sounds like she is deep into an affair addiction, so it would be smart to navigate this from an informed position. There very well may be information on her phone, a source that will not lie. She might be deleting, but as you’ve been so accommodating, she may not be…yet.

It’s highly doubtful that she will give up her addiction unless faced with the sharp consequence of loss. If you speak to her in general about your boundaries, there’s every chance she will manipulate to the nth degree and you’ve acknowledged that. All evidence will be wiped. As a tactic, she may agree that she has been over-investing, then lie low for a while before resuming. If, however, you go in armed with as much of the truth as possible, you will obviously be in a stronger position.

Other thoughts:

You are choosing to believe that your W and Steve are in ‘a platonic friendship that has crossed some boundaries.’ If boundaries are crossed, then there is an attraction, and that is an affair, either EA or PA.

I wouldn’t meet up with Steve. It would give them the opportunity to buzz in each other’s presence.

Again, good luck with everything.

@Enginesear

Has your sex life changed?

I like your approach. You sound very balanced. I hope it's all fine. You might find out this guy is gay, who knows, or something else that confirms it's just friends. I have lots of male friends through a hobby and I will never be anything other than friends with them. I really hope it's just a friendship as you sound like a fantastic partner m. Don't snoop on her phone (I don't think you will) as it will sort itself in time - probably over Xmas.

@Enginesear

Thanks for all the kind replies. I wasn’t really ready for them To be honest I half expected to be told to chill and be more trusting/less insecure. It’s a lot to take on board - of all people she’s the last one I’d have thought could get involved with someone else

To be honest sometimes little crushes happen but it sounds like she's not definitely avoiding it, she's actually encouraging it. It sounds like she's kind of swept up in it. Is too busy focusing on herself and how good it's making her feel than looking at the bigger picture and how it will affect her family. At this point, I'd probably have a snoop through her phone. Not great to do but hopefully would give you some answers.

It would feel like an act of distrust and trying to catch her out...

Personally I think there's a big difference between checking someone's photo because there are a number of quite specific red flags that have made you uncomfortable, and checking someone's phone because you like to keep an eye on them.

I wish I'd checked my partner's phone when I first started having a bad gut feeling about him, but I felt it wasn't right to invade his privacy. I could have saved myself half a decade of gaslighting, incredibly confident lying to my face, false promises and more before I snooped and uncovered financial abuse that ran to hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Does she take her best underwear when she goes to Steve's? Red flag here.