Wife and male thread. Not sure about it

[Enginesear]

I have a situation that could really do with some level headed mumsnet wisdom please, before I try and navigate it, because I just don’t know if I have genuine cause for concern, or am just overthinking and being paranoid.

To set the scene. DW and I married for 10 years, with 2 primary school age children. We’ve always had a rock solid relationship with no issues.

We both have a shared interest/hobby, which she has gradually got into, as have the kids, and in recent years she has become the greater enthusiast. Through this she’s made a few new friends, male and female. but this is about one male friend in particular, let’s call him Steve.
DW has struck up a close friendship with Steve. I’ve had no problem with this up til now - she has lots of male friends. I’ve met Steve a couple of times and he seemed amiable and decent.

Steve is single and lives alone elsewhere in the country, but attends most of the events for this interest which happen in our area. My DW, a couple of years back started showing an interest in attending occasional events elsewhere in the country, and stays overnight at Steve’s on those occasions. Again I’ve had no problem with this, trust has never been an issue, and a I’ve never felt any reason to object.

However, recently a few red flags have started waving, that make me worry that there’s more to this friendship, like:

-These overnights at Steve’s have become more frequent, and have become full weekends rather than overnight stays. Two weekends on the trot now planned for after Christmas. This causes a bit of disruption to the kids hobbies/clubs, which I don’t mind now and then, but these weekends away now seem a greater priority to her than the kids clubs, time together as a couple, or anything else that could otherwise have been planned.

-She talks about him a lot. I don’t think she realises how much.

-They text each other a lot. I’m not privy to the contents of these conversations and have never considered it any of my business.

-There’s an event over the Christmas holiday that we’d talked about going to as a family. She seems to be steering me away from going though, insisting that youngest DC won’t want to go (youngest DC has told me he does want to go), which is weird.

There are other subtle little things but these are the main things bothering me.

I feel awful about it because I don’t want to poison the well by saying I’ve got an issue with it, or make her feel like she can’t be friends with who she wants, especially if it turns out that it’s all innocent. On the other hand their friendship is, at the very least, taking up enough space and time to be detrimental to family life. Not sure how I tackle this without implying some sort of impropriety on her part. Any advice, suggestions, head wobbling much appreciated.

You should worry less about being accusatory. Even if she isn’t having a physical affair, she is investing too much time and energy into a man who isn’t her husband, and that isn’t OK in any marriage. Her actions are causing you to worry - again, not OK in any marriage. You sounds very balanced and have put up with A LOT so far, so forget about being seen as controlling - you’re just not. She’s overstepped your very sensible boundaries and you’re entitled to your boundaries.

If you don’t want to look at her phone, I would have a very candid sit down chat with her about all of it, and don’t hold back. If she loves you and there is nothing going on she should be kind, sympathetic, eager to make it right and feel some degree of bad feeling that she’s upset you. You should ask to see her phone and she should allow you to. If she gets defensive, angry and accusatory, then you have your answer.

My DW, a couple of years back started showing an interest in attending occasional events elsewhere in the country, and stays overnight at Steve’s on those occasions

Are the events in other parts of the country always near Steve's house? Seems a bit odd.

I'm so sorry you're going through this OP. I've been there a couple of times over the years, with OH and it's miserable, but I agree with others that her behaviour is highly suspicious, not least, if it is entirely innocent there is the safety aspect of a woman staying alone overnight, at the house of a person that was, in effect, a complete stranger, in the beginning. Did that alone not ring alarm bells with you at the start?

Your marriage sounds very like ours in that we both have opposite sex friends & trust each other never to take the pee & we are both equally laid back over friendships

This though I'm sorry to say has red flags all over it & id be very unhappy if DH did this as I'd never do it to him as even if it's not an affair, she's taking the pee cutting in to too much family time to spend time with her "friend"

If nothing else Steve definitely has designs on her & she's not handling that well at all, if not why isn't he going out his way to make sure you are comfortable with their friendship, that's what I'd do with a new male friends partner as I'm sure you would too if it was a new attached female friend. That this is so separate from you & family & two trips planned in one moth without you, stinks tbh

DH & I never check each other's phones, but they are open to pick up & check if either of us wanted to, we'd ask each other to check something if phones have been left behind accidentally etc. if I was ever doing anything to make DH feel insecure, I'd have absolutely no problem with him checking my phone & I know he's the same.

Depending on your financial circumstances, I'd be sitting her down & confronting her & asking her to reassure me by letting me see their conversations. If it's innocent, she won't take issue with that, if she does, then there is your answer

I'd also consider checking her phone when she isn't looking if your finances are such that you need to protect yourself & get your ducks in a row.

So sorry, I hope you can navigate this for a happy outcome

.....did you check if she took the new underwear with her the last time she went away? If she did, then that will give you the biggest clue that something is going on.

Sorry OP, the two weekends away + mentionitis + new underwear = massively dodgy.

I'd be checking the phone...

To be honest, op you sound really lovely and unfortunately she’s taking advantage of this right now. I get the feeling that you are being a bit too nice. If and when it does come to a head, you are perfectly within your rights to be angry with her and stand up for yourself and the family. Don’t let her take the piss out of you for fear of rocking the boat. If something feels off, it usually is. You trying to suppress your emotions around this is not a good idea.

Someone who is confronted about being dishonest might try to gaslight you. Things they might say:
How dare you suspect something like that of me!
Do you really think I'd be capable of doing that?
How about all your outings?
How about your friend so and so?
Isn't it you who introduced me to this hobby and wanted me to take it up?
Are people not allowed to have friends?
Am I not allowed to have a social life?
Must I check with you first who I can be friends with?
I didn't realise you were so insecure.
Why would I even want Steve, he's not even my type... Etc etc..
All these type of comments are meant to throw you off guard and confuse you even more without answering the actual question.
If you choose to speak to her, the only acceptable answer is: No I'm not having an affair. Here's my phone, look through. I have nothing to hide.

Please don't start checking her phone. It's a terrible way to deal with your relationship and starting down that road is the beginning of the end. It's only useful if you want to find a reason to end your relationship.

You've been reasonable and honourable in your conduct so far, I don't think you should change yourself.

But you do need to talk to her. Even if she's not having an affair (which is possible but unlikely), her behaviour is not appropriate. What you do know for sure without snooping is that she's making your mutual family life less of a priority which feels worrying and threatening to you. So what does she plan to do so you both can fix that?

Would she really talk about him so openly if there was something going on?
Yes, unfortunately - agree with the others that this sounds like mentionitis. My exh did this, though without mentioning names - at first, I believe, just so excited that he wanted to tell someone, later because he had realised how exciting the subterfuge was.

Also agree that if you confront her, she'll move into gaslighting mode. It does your head in - you start thinking you are the one in the wrong - muddies the water and makes them more secretive.

I also gave my exh the benefit of the doubt - I don't think it's being taken for a mug; it's just what a decent person does. But it sounds like you've reached the point when you can't any more. Keep an eye on bank accounts.

No no no...you definitely need a wake up and smell the coffee moment. She's prioritising weekends with Steve over you & the children. To be honest I'm surprised you let it get this far! The next time she goes off on a Jolly romp weekend with Steve I'd get someone to look after the children and get yourself over there and see what they're up to.
She's taking the piss alright and more than likely getting a good leg over with Steve. Sorry to be brutal but that's the way it is!

I suspect those who are ardently anti looking at phones haven’t been completely blindsided and crapped on at some point— if there’s nothing to hide then it’s no big deal. Personally if you’ve got the cash I would be getting a PI on the case when she’s away . I’m sorry but in these circumstances you just need to know or it’s living a lie. All this talk to them!! Do you honestly believe most people when cornered will just say— yep- I’m knocking Steve off, only likely if they are literally about to end the relationship with you.

There’s an event over the Christmas holiday that we’d talked about going to as a family. She seems to be steering me away from going though, insisting that youngest DC won’t want to go
Is this also near his place? I wonder if they might actually be planning a holiday like my exh did. If you know the time/place it might offer an opportunity to check whether she really went.

starting down that road is the beginning of the end. It's only useful if you want to find a reason to end your relationship
That is, however, actually useful, if the alternative is to spend longer in limbo, feeling like a fool while your "dp" runs rings around you and gradually gets more and more unpleasant.

This sounds just like what happened to my DH’s best friend. It was an affair in plain sight, he convinced himself it wasn’t but then found evidence it was happening.
I would not be happy with my DH investing this much time into another woman at this level and would certainly not be happy with him staying the weekend at another woman’s house.
You need to have a talk now, if she isn’t willing to respect your boundaries, then you tell her the relationship is over.

if there’s nothing to hide then it’s no big deal

I don't agree with that. I think once you start spying on your spouse you don't have a relationship any more. If that's what you want, fine. But suppose you discover that there is no affair - or no explicit text about WHEN WILL WE MEET TO CONTINUE DOING OUR AFFAIR BEHIND MY HUSBAND'S BACK THE FOOL so nothing concrete, where do you go from there? You might say life just goes on as normal after that, but now that you've become someone as untrustworthy as a cheating spouse, there's nothing much left, is there?

Seems unlikely to be innocent
Can you stay at Steve’s as well next time? If you are able to arrange child care?

In my view, checking somebody's phone hoping that your suspicions are not confirmed is a much lesser sin that cheating on your husband. I do think anybody in your circumstances would be suspicious about what was going on. Even if you find nothing, she is not prioritising you or your children

I think once you start spying on your spouse you don't have a relationship any more
I only started spying when I suspected that I didn't have a relationship any more, because my exh was cheating on me. I just wanted to end the misery rather than have it drag out longer while my exh made up his mind. I think that's what OP is doing here too, alas.

"This is what I hope. Would she really talk about him so openly if there was something going on?"

OP - my mother left my father for another man she met through a mutual interest group. She talked about him openly all the time to the point that my dad jokingly referred to the affair partner as "mum's boyfriend" because she mentioned him so often. When she left, he was totally blindsided. He never imagined that this man really was the boyfriend because he trusted her.

So openly talking about him a lot only means this man is on her mind. She may not be intending to have an affair but the attraction is there otherwise she wouldn't be talking about him.

I only discovered my husbands repeated, ongoing infidelity by snooping through his MacBook and subsequent messages app linked to it through his phone. He had deleted all traces of any conversations with women but had proof tracing back years with a few friends and colleagues bragging about it, making crude comments and sharing all the slimy details. In one message a friend had joked to him about me finding out and my husbands response was "deny until you die."

I don't care how big an invasion of privacy it was, if I hadn't looked my life would of been wasted on somebody who had no regard for me, our shared children or my sexual health. If there is reasonable doubt, invade the hell out of their privacy, better that then the alternative. I thought my husband was a good man, he wasn't, how many others would deny 'til they die?

Checking a phone is not remotely comparable to being a cheating spouse. How ridiculous.

If Steve was ugly she wouldn't stay over and keep texting him for fear of leading him on (unless he's gay). Trust your instincts. This isn't normal at all.

You seem lovely OP I really hope it isn't what it looks like

Check her phone for sure. It might give you your answers.
If she’s secured her phone with passwords I’d get a PI.
I think in this situation you need to know for certain what’s going on. Otherwise you continue to live in limbo.
Talking to her will get you nowhere as she won’t admit to an affair.
Keep an eye on the bank balance too.

I think you should get a PI for the next time she goes to stay with Steve. Act like you suspect nothing.