Thread 219: Dating in a winter wonderland

[Shayelle2009]

The Rules:

1. The first rule about the dating thread is don't talk about it with people you're dating.
2. Develop a thick skin.
3. Do not invest emotionally too soon.
4. It's all BS until it actually happens.
5. Trust your gut instinct.
6. People vanishing, lying & being generally weird is not your fault.
7. Know your worth.
8. If it's not fun, stop.
9. Loo update is mandatory.

10. No dating the thread. 11. Treat others as you'd like to be treated 12. Any relationship you have that could get ruined by having a conversation about your feelings, standards and/or expectations wasn't really stable enough to begin with 13. The things you choose to ignore/ tolerate now are the reasons you will break up in the future 14. OLD can get very time consuming. Keep doing other activities you enjoy.

Optional: Please give your irons (potential dates you are talking to) nicknames like Mr Scottish. Initials are allowed (Mr S) when you are an item

[quote StartingAgain33]@VanGoghsDog that is super impressive!!!!

If I paid that £1000 savings into my mortgage every month I would have paid it off by the time i'm 53. But I've heard it's better to put any extra you have into pension as it will compound more there?

Haha, sorry, yes back to love...... how do guys react when they see you so sorted?

I'm the only person I know that's bought in London without any parental help. I think most people assume I'm from a well off background which brings its own weirdness because I tend to go out with middle class guys / attracted to them and vice versa and then they realise my family is very very different to what they would expect which can be an interesting test for whether someone is a snob or not![/quote]
Hmmm ......I think compounding in that sense is a red herring.

Interest compounds. Investments don't. Pensions are invested. They don't get interest. They get investment returns which is different. Over time it should increase but there's no guarantee. And depends what you've invested in (you can hold cash which gets interest, but very low).

The big win for pension is the tax relief at source. If you're a higher rate tax payer when earning, but likely to be a basic (or zero) rate tax payer when drawing, then it's a big boost. You won't get that sort of return any other way. I pay all my higher rate earnings into the pension, to keep me at the basic tax rate. So, essentially if I put £10k in, it "costs" me £6k, because of that ten k I'd actually only earn six due to tax and NI. When I draw it, I'll pay 20% tax, once I've used my annual tax allowance. So, I'll get £8k minimum (ignoring any returns or increase in value).

Mortgage interest compounds negatively. So, the longer you owe money, the more real money you pay in interest. Of course, rates are quite low currently. But it is still a cost.

If I had £1k to save each month, I'd both overpay the mortgage and out some in my pension. Because I like to hedge.

I don't tell guys I'm that sorted, but I make it clear I'm independent. I expect men to be the same type of sorted so that's why it comes up.

@VanGoghsDog thank you, that’s helpful - although I do get lost with all of the calculations. I put my pension through my limited company so it has tax benefits there. I think I’m officially a lower rate tax payer as my accountant does the dividends thing… (money is not my strongest point), but I guess that’s irrelevant if I’m paying from the company and not my salary?

So if I have £2k spare, I should maybe put 1k in pension and 1 in mortgage then? I do love the idea of bringing down my debt.

On the pension, I think i should have said that returns are reinvested so it’s kind of a compound thing but not the same as interest, you’re right.

I do find it unattractive when someone is totally not sorted. I worry on their behalf! Hence my concerns with current guy I’m dating. He’s so behind.

I put my pension through my limited company so it has tax benefits there. I think I’m officially a lower rate tax payer as my accountant does the dividends thing… (money is not my strongest point), but I guess that’s irrelevant if I’m paying from the company and not my salary?

If you pay into the pension directly from the Ltd co then it's a company cost and you save corporation tax. And as you're not paying it to yourself there's no income tax. So it's about the same effect.

Dividends do still attract higher rate tax but not in quite the same way/at the same cut off points, so it's probably working fine!

Obviously I can't make any recommendations, but I try to do a bit of everything! Hence savings, plus pension, plus mortgage paid down. Now it's pension to keep me out of the higher tax band, and savings in an ISA after that. And premium bonds, won £100 this month!

On the pension, I think i should have said that returns are reinvested so it’s kind of a compound thing but not the same as interest, you’re right.

There are different types of return on investment, the main ones being dividends and growth. Investments can grow, but also fall (hello February 2020!). That's not returns being reinvested, it's just the general rollercoaster.
I tend to choose accumulating funds in my pension so I don't have cash dividends to deal with. I don't like automatic reinvestment of dividends though, for two reasons - 1) it's not usually cost effective with the fee structure, 2) you chose that investment, say, five years ago. Does that mean it's still the right investment for you today? Would you buy it from scratch now or are you just being lazy? Or have you crested an emotional attachment to that investment?

I allow dividends to accumulate in my ISA though, because spending them on new investments is like going shopping! And I get to do a load of research which I enjoy!

@VanGoghsDog yes I love premium bonds, that's where my savings are at the moment...as I may need them in the next couple of years and I want quick access etc. It's fun winning :)

Interesting re accumulating funds on pensions. I just do mine through pensionbee, the ethical fund which has given me a really good return in the last three years (about £16k on a £40k investment). It's higher risk / invests in renewables but i'm comfy with that given I'm 37 (and support renewables!). I'll probs leave it to the experts on that for now, but I do like to dabble in crypto which is a whole different kettle of fish ;)

Sorry everyone for the money chat!

[quote StartingAgain33]@VanGoghsDog yes I love premium bonds, that's where my savings are at the moment...as I may need them in the next couple of years and I want quick access etc. It's fun winning :)

Interesting re accumulating funds on pensions. I just do mine through pensionbee, the ethical fund which has given me a really good return in the last three years (about £16k on a £40k investment). It's higher risk / invests in renewables but i'm comfy with that given I'm 37 (and support renewables!). I'll probs leave it to the experts on that for now, but I do like to dabble in crypto which is a whole different kettle of fish ;)

Sorry everyone for the money chat![/quote]
Just looked at PensionBee - high fees. .5%. Vanguard, as an example comparator, is .15% .

Also, PensionBee invests in expensive funds, so you'll be paying them too, (check the "total expense ratio" of the fund).

You can invest in ethical funds anywhere.

The return looks good, but means nothing unless you compare it to the market and similar investments held elsewhere. It's been a good three years. I bought a unit trust in Jan 2020 that is up 130%. Total fluke - when the pandemic hit I assumed everything would fall but this just rose and rose. Turns out, it holds a big position in Zoom. And Facebook, Amazon, Tesla, etc - all things that did well in the pandemic. I knew it was a tech fund, and I wanted it to compliment other stocks, but had no idea there'd be a pandemic nor how it would fare. But that's just an example to show how growth on its own doesn't really mean anything.

I'm beginning to see why I don't have a boyfriend!

@VanGoghsDog you're totally right. Hmm, I need to look at this again....

I did have a Vanguard tracker fund I think for my house deposit. I didn't think about a SIPP...

I'd never even heard of a Unit Trust. That's brilliant news. Who did you buy it through?

I feel like if I tried hard I could potentially make some good investments. There's loads of futures stuff in sustainability so I tend to be quite aware of new companies / tech and often think I should invest more proactively in that space, especially things like food tech and battery storage etc!

I do need to check out decentralised finance Index funds. That whole space is going through the roof at the minute... but first I need to simplify my little crypto pot - I'm invested in way too many coins and it's a bit confusing on top of everything else. I find it hard to keep on top of everything!

@VanGoghsDog I've definitely bored / confused blokes before with crypto chat, I tend to keep it under wraps now

Lalalalalalalaaaa pension chat lalalalala

This money/status chat is interesting - a few years ago post-separation and when I first started dating I used to feel a mess compared to some of the men I was chatting to - I had the expensive house in an expensive part of London, but absolutely zero income and was living on benefits and no career having been a SAHM. Fast forward a few years and I've rebooted my career, am lucky enough to be a high earner and am now in the opposite position of being a bit self-conscious about that and about in any way being conspicuously better off than someone. But I do recognise that is my madness and not theirs. I've always driven old bangers and always thought new cars were naff but recently due to changing circumstances for the first time ever got a new lease car and then felt hideously self-conscious driving it and as though everyone was looking at me. Which of course is ridiculous - nobody gives a shit.

I realise that I just have a thing where I either worry about being seen as worse OR better than other people and it's all a function of just caring too much what other people think. A few weeks ago I was playing tennis and feeling self-conscious that people thought I was too shit to be playing doubles with them - the following week I played well and found myself self-conscious that people would think I was showing off - being an overthinker really is a fucking burden!

@BelladiMamma thanks for input earlier. Things are hotting up with iron ahead of Friday and I have mooted the topic of discussion. I'm ridiculously excited about how much shagging and adventure we're going to have outside of any serious chats though - staying in a remote beach shack, he's bringing venison and is cooking all weekend, we're going to jump in the sea and go hiking etc - this really does feel like the "I want to live my best life" adventure I was looking for. The big question beyond this kind of experience is all about whether there's something intrinsically risky or difficult for me when neither of us are talking about Commitments or Futures and he lives 2 hours away. Argh.

Jeez, after reading the above I think my money must be asleep, need to make it work harder,

What's the deal with gym selfies? Now I go to the gym to work out, so usually end up a sweaty mess. I've just been looking at a friend's OLD account and the amount of men with gym selfies is ridiculous. If I'm taking a picture in the gym it's usually of my record on the equipment and maybe my feet and a dumb bell to prove I was there (it was my first time back after injury). Now I like a gym honed man but I just find gym selfies weird and off putting

Although I did swipe on Computer Geek who had nothing but topless, and headless and one that left very little to the imagination so really haven't a right to judge🙈😳🙊 I was just lucky the face matched the body!

So @FabulousMrFifty are you heading all the way over to Wales for this weekend’s shagathon ? Hopefully you’re indoors, not really the weather for dogging 😂

@Isitreallyme177
Tbf, you see lots of gym selfies on female profiles, but tend to be pre-gym selfies, or just in gym gear

OMG @ibelieveinmirrorballs you are so right re overthinking and caring too much about what other people think. This week I'm worrying about the bloke I'm dating having no money and it meaning he's not very together, but last week I was worried he was from too privileged a background and would be looking down on me! Because all of his friends seem to be well off / even some quite famous people in there.

I've also been really worried in the past when I've been seeing well off people or people who come from rich families etc.

It's not a nice way of thinking as it's like someone always needs to be winning or losing, and it doesn't just relate to money - I've worried people are more creative than me, more happy, etc etc!

At the moment i'm worried that everyone in my coworking space thinks I'm too old and uncool, when they probably really pay very little notice to either of those things

It's good to recognise it @StartingAgain33 - I'm embarrassed to admit it was only the tennis incident that made me think 'hmm, so exactly what level of tennis do i need to have in order for my brain not to give me a hard time and make me think people are tutting about me when I'm not looking?'. I get that too re. worrying too much people are either too privileged for me, or that they're thinking I'm too privileged for them. It's ridiculous! My iron has seen some photos of my house but not been here yet, as I'm having renovation work done. And every time he says something complimentary I cringe, as though it's embarrassing that he must think I have a nicer house than him. But actually he's just being nice and normal and one of us has to have a nicer house than the other, and if it wasn't this way round I'd be thinking he was looking down on me. Madness.

You're right though - it boils down to somehow thinking that people think about us all the time, and of course they really really don't

@Onesmallstep67
It’s 4 hours so we meeting in the middle, and to quote a phrase I’ve read on the internet today, she will be getting a “good rogering”,

I was chatting with her today and the power is out where she is due to storm Barra,

Oh my god I'm one of the not sorted, no savings, lives in my overdraft flakes that people on here avoid!

Never got any money to save, pay my mortgage and hope for the best. I'm not thrifty, like nice things and maybe that's not the best attitude as a mother etc but it's what it is. I admire you all for being so sorted! Teaching is never going to make me rich but I teach in the sort of catchment area that makes me understand my relative privilege very well.

@ibelieveinmirrorballs weirdly when I was younger I didn't do this at all - my dad was a bricklayer who spent time in very very rich peoples' houses, but he had an attitude that they were equals, and he was genuinely happy for them, which I think rubbed off on me. So when I went to an Oxbridge uni and would go visit friend's amazing houses in the holidays I had the attitude of 'wow this is cool!" and was quite open about that, but not in a way that came from feeling inferior from having grown up in a council house. I just didn't see their lives as something to compare mine to. I think I've gotten far more conscious of this growing older now - I guess the 'keeping up with the Joneses' attitude has rubbed on me from society / my friends who will compare their houses etc, and I've also gotten way more aware of privelage and how unfair wealth is distributed so I do feel a bit guilty about being now more well off and aware of how lucky I am maybe?

But anyway yes you're right, a game of tennis can just be a game of tennis! And everyone is going to be more or less funny, well off, annoying etc, because no one is going to match us completely and why would we want that anyway? :)

@FabulousMrFifty glad to hear it, its very clear from this thread that a good rogering never goes amiss 🤣

@FabulousMrFifty, this would be even funnier if you were actually called Roger. 😂 she’ll be glad to get out of Wales if this storm persists.

Crikey, people here are saving more in a month than I take home! 55, mortgaged, hardly any savings, no inheritance coming. At least nobody will be intimated by my earnings. And I drive a shiny new lease car because I can't do my job without it. Not into cars though. If someone turned up to a date in a sports car I'd go right off them!

I hope everything's ok with Naimee?

@MizK having a mortgage is pretty sorted in my book! I only bought my house this year... and I've just started putting money into pension after quite a few years of not doing so to save the deposit. Up until six years ago I was always in my overdraft but I did make an effort to increase my income as otherwise I knew i'd never get on the ladder in London!

Tbh I often hate my job / am really overworking to earn more money and would rather do something that helps people like be a teacher but I feel like I'd struggle on the salary now I've bought my house as it's a high mortgage so I feel somewhat trapped by it all. I think it's important to enjoy life too, and now I have the house I have definitely started relaxing a bit more and treating myself to more things!

Eeks, I would never say I needed a good rogering @FabulousMrFifty but then perhaps I'm repressed . Hope you have a brilliant time with Miss Wales.

I'd possibly consider myself a high earner but tbh I just like people who aren't tight rather than equally high earning. I definitely don't make it work as hard as others on this thread. Am taking notes.

Have taken your advice @BelladiMamma and wearing my series Sunday best on FRIDAY on my 2nd date. Things are still wonderful though he let slip that he told his mum about me .....

Gosh I know I need to put more in pension but also my family don't tend to live to see their pension so I am reluctant... I invest, however, and overpay my mortgage. I guess I'm a high earner. I have a years pre tax salary in savings.

I'm worried this is intimidating to men my age however. When I look at my group of friends they all still live a home, or house share, no pensions etc. I dont want to not travel and do all the things I want because a partner can't afford it, I spent the last 10 years not doing stuff.

Its my birthday tomorrow and I'm now out for lunch and dinner with different sets of friends and I feel very loved, regardless of my single status

@StartingAgain33 @ibelieveinmirrorballs from a fellow over thinker - it can get better! I promise you! Strangely all the therapy I did for the marriage breakdown helped me in lots of ways, including this. I just let go of other's peoples opinions of me and I'm so much happier. This doesn't always pertain to irons but I'm cured of that awful 'am I good enough for him' thing I used to get into.

@Isitreallyme177 just typing the above made me think of you and your various flakes. It's fine to have lots of different types of friends but make sure that you've got some real rock solid can call them at midnight because you've stubbed your toe type mates. And don't care too much about what people might think of you. So long as you're kind and authentic, which you are here, then public opinion be damned (oh and they probably haven't given you a moment's thought these people!!)