Parenting my husband

[Kindtomyself]

Hi. I’m in a really challenging marriage and have come to the realisation that I have taken on the role of mother and my husband has taken on the role of child in our marriage. I am exhausted, unhappy and need to take some action to resolve it.

An example (there’s usually 5 or more situations per day). ‘d’h says he’ll go to the supermarket and do the weekly shop. Firstly he goes 1 hour before I need the car to go somewhere so is tight for time, secondly I am expected to write the list, ok I write the list, plan the meals for the week which I write at the top of the list and off he goes (not taking carrier bags again so has to buy more despite us having approximately 40 carrier bags shoved in a drawer because he forgets to take them and then buys more and just shoves them in the drawer when he returns). He does the shop. Me: did you get everything? ‘D’h yes…..
Next day comes and I can’t find the melon. Me: where’s the melon? ‘D’h: they didn’t have any. Me: but you said you got everything. ‘D’h: I didn’t get melon . Me: but you got everything else? ‘D’h: yes. Ok, I think and wander back to the kitchen. I then notice there’s no strawberries….and the same conversation ensues. This literally happens four times.

Does anyone have any experience and/or advice on this? I’m at my wits end

@Sab8768

My husband winds me up with stuff like this as I do feel like he deliberately does certain stuff really really badly so that I don’t ask him / do it myself! He’s an intelligent bloke but can be totally incompetent when it comes to basic household things ...however I’ve found certain things he does do well (he’s in charge of bins..I don’t even know what day they go out!) ...but if you ask him to hoover or clean anything it looks like he’s done absolutely nothing and he without fail will put dishes in the sink not the dishwasher etc. So I try remind myself of what he does do...he probably does less in volume but does a lot of the jobs I’d rather not do like empty nappy bins etc.

If you feel like it’s totally uneven though maybe have a chat and agree together what jobs you will each be responsible for. If he’s useless at getting the weekly shop (my husband is) why don’t you switch to click and collect? If you have to write the list anyway why not do it yourself online in the same amount of time, then he collects it and puts everything away?

You think wheeling a bin out in any way compares to running a home?

@nocnoc

Why don’t you remove the stress points? I don’t understand why he has to go to the supermarket. Buy the monthly shopping pass at wherever sainsburys etc and set up a recurring Monday and Friday order/delivery. You could also order a couple of Cook meals per week to ease pressure and give him the responsibility of picking up the takeaway on the way home on a Friday night. Get a cleaner in once a week. This is how most people do this stuff. None of my friends have partners/husbands who go to Tesco and pretty much all of them at least 30 families have some sort of extended or paid for help. They rely on parents or have cleaners/dog walkers/gardeners/online groceries. In fact I’m looking at the neighbours now and the cleaners have just gone in. What I’m saying is, you’ve said this is unsexy but you’re punishing him for something that I don’t know one single other man to do and I’m now racking my brain to think of one in the entirety of the UKs family/friends network. Especially if they work. Just take the jobs away from him. It’s got to be cheaper than divorce.

Really?

I know plenty of men (my DH, my SiLs, my son and others who are pretty hands on with the children, the house and the shopping.

Not everyone has local family or the money to pay for help,

@Stressybetty

Like others have said he's not going to change or be forced into changing his ways. You either have to live with it or LTB. My DH is also a complete man child, can't see dirt and mess, dirty clothes, jobs piling up around him, head in the clouds. BUT he has all the ideas, plans and does all the cooking. I never stop working, cleaning, tidying etc but at the end of the day it's about being an effective team, a loving partnership with the same goals. I wouldn't let my DH walk about in dirty clothes and the fact you do sounds like you no longer actually still love and respect him. If you don't no counseling will help and why are you still with him?

If my partner chose to walk around in dirty clothes he's be my Ex. What's with the 'let' him? His choice...

@TractorAndHeadphones

I'm the female version of your partner - but I have ADHD. I however solved the issue by getting a cleaner. Since he doesn;t even attempt to fix it get rid.

Do you work?

How do you get on there?

@TractorAndHeadphones really? Because it sounds to me like you're a person who understands that her behaviour isn't okay and looks for solutions. Vs OP's H who rolls his eyes, accuses her of nagging, has no issues with poor personal hygiene.

DH asked me to hang up the washing he'd put on the other day. I forgot. when he came in and realised I said, "oh, god, I'm so sorry. I'll do it right now."

@Nanny0gg

‘Kindtomyself
@Nanny0gg nope I don’t find him attractive at all. It was our anniversary recently and he kept making hints about sex and I said ‘there’s no way I am interested in having sex with you when you ignore me when I ask you to do things to help our life tick over’ he rolled his eyes again
Never mind that.

He doesn't clean his teeth, the dirty minger!!

Just tell him he's disgusting!’

My husband does clean his teeth it’s another poster’s who doesn’t. My husband doesn’t wear underwear

“He behaved that way because he was acting out his own unresolved issues and projected his anger at himself and his long gone parents on to me.”

This was my experience.

He had a toxic family of origin (emotionally remote alcoholic father and engulfing narc mother) - he was the golden boy, man child which came with golden handcuffs around dancing to the tune of his DM. Subconsciously he hated her controlling and enmeshed engulfing behaviours - but had no voice - just unresolved anger which he was unable to discharge at the appropriate target (his DM) but it was acted out as resistance and disrespect of me. He needed to emotionally kick me, wind me up, burden, sabotage and punish me through resisting adult responsibilities so that I would flip and he could point the finger at my raging.

I became a person I didn’t recognize or like and my MH suffered. My biggest regret was tolerating this for so long and allowing my children to live in this toxic hostile environment and see a bitter exhausted mother. I should have taken my finite time and energy away from fighting a futile fight with him and redirected it to being an emotionally calm and nourishing single parent sooner.

He thinks that everything to do with running the household is your responsibility and he'll help out sometimes, but you are supposed to be grateful for what little he does, not 'nag' him for all the stuff he forgets or cocks up. Wifework, you see.

@ESGdance

“He behaved that way because he was acting out his own unresolved issues and projected his anger at himself and his long gone parents on to me.”

This was my experience.

He had a toxic family of origin (emotionally remote alcoholic father and engulfing narc mother) - he was the golden boy, man child which came with golden handcuffs around dancing to the tune of his DM. Subconsciously he hated her controlling and enmeshed engulfing behaviours - but had no voice - just unresolved anger which he was unable to discharge at the appropriate target (his DM) but it was acted out as resistance and disrespect of me. He needed to emotionally kick me, wind me up, burden, sabotage and punish me through resisting adult responsibilities so that I would flip and he could point the finger at my raging.

I became a person I didn’t recognize or like and my MH suffered. My biggest regret was tolerating this for so long and allowing my children to live in this toxic hostile environment and see a bitter exhausted mother. I should have taken my finite time and energy away from fighting a futile fight with him and redirected it to being an emotionally calm and nourishing single parent sooner.

I’m sorry you had to deal with this. I think there’s something similar going on here.

[quote Kindtomyself]**@Nanny0gg

‘Kindtomyself
@Nanny0gg nope I don’t find him attractive at all. It was our anniversary recently and he kept making hints about sex and I said ‘there’s no way I am interested in having sex with you when you ignore me when I ask you to do things to help our life tick over’ he rolled his eyes again
Never mind that.

He doesn't clean his teeth, the dirty minger!!

Just tell him he's disgusting!’

My husband does clean his teeth it’s another poster’s who doesn’t. My husband doesn’t wear underwear [/quote]
Apologies.

But no underwear and dirty clothes is also minging!

[quote SpaceOp]@TractorAndHeadphones really? Because it sounds to me like you're a person who understands that her behaviour isn't okay and looks for solutions. Vs OP's H who rolls his eyes, accuses her of nagging, has no issues with poor personal hygiene.

DH asked me to hang up the washing he'd put on the other day. I forgot. when he came in and realised I said, "oh, god, I'm so sorry. I'll do it right now."[/quote]
Exactly that’s it! I’m not expecting perfection and I’m far from it but if I’m asked to do something and forget I will apologise.

Or if I have had something belonging to another person and then mislaid it, I would look for it.

Me: have you seen my keys?
Husband: no
Me: where did you put them when you borrowed them?
Husband: on the counter

Me: they’re definitely not there
Husband: they should be
End of conversation

He doesn’t wear underwear. He used to but eventually ran out when they fell apart and didn’t bother to buy anymore

This made me feel quite ill.

You need to exit stage left from this vile creature.

@Nanny0gg yes I agree
no underwear and dirty clothes is also minging!

@Shedmistress sorry to make you ill

Exactly that’s it! I’m not expecting perfection and I’m far from it but if I’m asked to do something and forget I will apologise.

It really is the difference between an adult and a child. DS moans at least half the time when I ask him to unload the dishwasher. Because he is 10 and he genuinely doesn't understand yet that he has responsibilities. Because he is a child, I ignore his moaning and tell him to do it anyway.

Your DH wants to be like a child - be allowed to moan, get away with as much as possible, not take responsible - while ALSO getting benefits of adulthood - ie the option to say no, ignore the chores etc.

screw that.

The thing is the underlying behaviour blueprint will just keep on getting played out repeatedly - because they are trying to resolve the childhood dynamic unconsciously that they were unable to stand up to at the time - to say No, to have agency. But of course it will not be resolved through your relationship - it just makes their life worse and creates another generation of children exposed to dysfunction who will carry than on through their own lives.

If you explain anything like this to him he is likely to dismiss and ridicule you - because everything his your fault. And it’s potentially shaming. Words mean nothing - especially from the person who they have cast as the (wrong) target of blame and for who the hold contempt - you - is proxy punch bag parent.

Mine was also an alcoholic.

@Stressybetty

Like others have said he's not going to change or be forced into changing his ways. You either have to live with it or LTB. My DH is also a complete man child, can't see dirt and mess, dirty clothes, jobs piling up around him, head in the clouds. BUT he has all the ideas, plans and does all the cooking. I never stop working, cleaning, tidying etc but at the end of the day it's about being an effective team, a loving partnership with the same goals. I wouldn't let my DH walk about in dirty clothes and the fact you do sounds like you no longer actually still love and respect him. If you don't no counseling will help and why are you still with him?

I'm assuming OP's husband knows where the washing machine is ? Why do you think it's acceptable to 'never stop' ?

Do you think you enable him somewhat ?

Could you have the shopping delivered ?

[quote Kindtomyself]@NorthSouthcatlady thanks for that. What I want is a partnership. It’s not reasonable for me to do more (and it’s not just a little more it’s bleeding loads more).[/quote]
I have a similar one at home. One that is often behaving like a child and hasn’t mastered yet that a relationship is a two way thing. You scratch my back and I’ll scratch yours.
It has taken me a long time but I think there are only two things possible there

1- you accept that’s who he is and that he will not change. You might dream for a partnership but he doesn’t. From that you can decide if you can live with it or not (and then LTB)

2- you try to establish very strong boundaries and expect him to step up and actually do some work in the relationship. I found that hard to do and very uncomfortable. And it relies on him actually stepping up. My H did on some respect because he has this sense of duty and ‘what should be done’ that goes above the ‘I can’t be bothered’ type of attitude. So yes he started to do some tidying up and some cooking. Stopped asking stupid questions when he didn’t get an answer etc…. BUT this ‘technique’ relies on him actually being uncomfortable to the mess/no food etc… so he has to do something about it. If he doesn’t, the it will go flop.

But the real bottom line is that this is who he is. He isn’t going to suddenly become a nice helpful partner unless he is cornered into it. After a few years, it might become more automatic (on specific aspects). My experience though is that it’s a sign of living in different worlds that are just not compatible….

It’s not about the individual tasks or lists or alarms - it’s a pervasive pattern of hostility, resistance, resentment and contempt.

You will run around like a headless chicken it charts and chores and apps - he will just transfer his underlying dysfunction onto another chore or aspect of your life.

Drop the rope.
Save your breath.
Take action and give your DCs an experience of a calm, collaborative, respectful home.

Mines self care was also shocking but within 24hrs of leaving the home - he had new shagging pants bought and after a shit, shower, shave he was on dating apps.

That’s how much he cared about our family life imploding. He really did take me to the end of my tether. I tried everything from courses, counselling etc. to turn him around.

“I should have preserved and prioritised my own sanity and dignity.”

Enabled him? Presumably he’s a grown adult who functions in work without huffing and moaning and just not doing things?

Even the idea that he might have ADHD means that he needs to put strategies in place to function in daily life. I don’t know how women are supposed to take responsibility for their men down to making sure they have clean clothes and underwear - such a very low bar in terms of acceptable adult functioning.

Can you imagine a stand off where you avoided washing your own clothes, pulled a skanky dress from the dirty wash pile to wear and wore no knickers because you couldn’t be arsed to buy new ones when the old ones fell apart?

@ESGdance you explain the situation very well! I was with exDH for 20 years. The last few years really took a toll on my mental health. I think it is really hard to understand how toxic this situation is unless you are in it. There was no way "having a chat" and laying boundaries was going to make any difference. I was his outlet for acting out his childhood. His world was entirely defined by his own unmet needs. It took me years to realise this because superficially he seemed "normal " That is totally different than just absent mindedness or being a bit slobby. There were substance abuse issues as well.

@Kindtomyself my exDH tried therapy many times but it hugely depends on the quality of the therapist, their rapport and whether he is willing to make the substantial and painful effort to change.

I really feel for both of you and everyone caught in a similar marriage!

I hear you OP. This was the reason for the breakdown of my previous relationship.

I'm now very happily married to a responsible adult!

[quote CowboyBebop]@ESGdance you explain the situation very well! I was with exDH for 20 years. The last few years really took a toll on my mental health. I think it is really hard to understand how toxic this situation is unless you are in it. There was no way "having a chat" and laying boundaries was going to make any difference. I was his outlet for acting out his childhood. His world was entirely defined by his own unmet needs. It took me years to realise this because superficially he seemed "normal " That is totally different than just absent mindedness or being a bit slobby. There were substance abuse issues as well.

@Kindtomyself my exDH tried therapy many times but it hugely depends on the quality of the therapist, their rapport and whether he is willing to make the substantial and painful effort to change.

I really feel for both of you and everyone caught in a similar marriage![/quote]
The trap is that once you start putting in the lists, charts, “nags”, nudges, reminders, alarms etc - in their (subconscious) eyes you have now become the controlling parent and they are legitimised to resist and punish you.

The irony is that their resistance is a deliberate (although maybe subconscious) attempt to goad you into that controlling role - same as their repressed anger seeps out in behaviours that triggers you into expressing their repressed rage (which at source was never about you - but becomes disproportionate around tasks)