Parenting my husband

[Kindtomyself]

Hi. I’m in a really challenging marriage and have come to the realisation that I have taken on the role of mother and my husband has taken on the role of child in our marriage. I am exhausted, unhappy and need to take some action to resolve it.

An example (there’s usually 5 or more situations per day). ‘d’h says he’ll go to the supermarket and do the weekly shop. Firstly he goes 1 hour before I need the car to go somewhere so is tight for time, secondly I am expected to write the list, ok I write the list, plan the meals for the week which I write at the top of the list and off he goes (not taking carrier bags again so has to buy more despite us having approximately 40 carrier bags shoved in a drawer because he forgets to take them and then buys more and just shoves them in the drawer when he returns). He does the shop. Me: did you get everything? ‘D’h yes…..
Next day comes and I can’t find the melon. Me: where’s the melon? ‘D’h: they didn’t have any. Me: but you said you got everything. ‘D’h: I didn’t get melon . Me: but you got everything else? ‘D’h: yes. Ok, I think and wander back to the kitchen. I then notice there’s no strawberries….and the same conversation ensues. This literally happens four times.

Does anyone have any experience and/or advice on this? I’m at my wits end

@19Bears he doesn’t care how shattered you are inside as long as his world doesn’t change. You don’t need to be upset with him to leave, you can just leave - tell him it’s over in whatever way works for you and leave.

@19Bears I found a book called "Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay" by Mira Kitshenbaum very helpful in clarifying my thoughts and solidifying my decision to step away. I highly recommend it to anyone caught in this sort of relationship and not sure what to do.

^It’s also really important to then look to yourself and understand what you are inadvertently contributing to this abusive / dysfunctional dynamic.

It might just be your presence. It might be enabling or codependency tendencies. It might be low self esteem or a belief that you knuckle down and put up and shut up.^ - @ESGdance I'm reading all this and seeing myself. How can you know all this and explain it so clearly? Is it part of your job? I've been asking myself questions around this for a long time, but yes - codependency, all of it. I've still spent 33+ years with him though. @19Bears you're going the same way - I've been posting on here for 5+ years that I wanted to leave under many different user names. Sometimes people reply and say that I am making excuses, but mostly I think people just shudder and think yeah fuck that. Well, me too.

@Kindtomyself and @19Bears, consider this…if you always do what you’ve always done - you’ll always get what you’ve always got. He is not going to change. Do you really think he’ll suddenly realise,’Oh gosh, I’m not doing my share! My poor wife - I must grow up!’ ?? THIS IS HIM Do yourselves, and ESPECIALLY your children, a favour and leave these dreadful men. If he could change, then he’s been a shit. If he can’t/won’t change, then you must. You have a choice, your kids don’t. Would you be happy if your daughter was in a marriage like yours? Then don’t show her that you accept it.

Counselling isn't going to be of any value if he doesn't acknowledge there is any need for him to change. It also isn't recommended where there is abuse in the relationship.

I would strongly recommend you seek individual counselling.

@19Bears I think you’ve read all the books, done all the therapy (two years, you said?) and posted on all the threads. None of these things has made you leave. So, either you’re never going to leave (which would be truly tragic) OR you’re just going to have to get up one morning and do it. Stop needing it to be justified, or for him to think you’re right, or for the heavens to open. Stop asking us ‘why can’t I’? Just do it.

It seems unlikely that anything that’s said to you on here is going to help, as every imaginable thing has already been said. There are no magic words.

I'm a 52 year old dad. Just spotted this thread.

Not wanting to boast or grandstand here but you can do better in life.

I cook every day
I do the food shopping every week and meal plan more than my wife.
I put the clothes in to wash and hang them up to dry and then away in drawers. We are 50:50 on this

I hoover.
I plan and book holidays
I do the kids showers and bed time routine every day
I do the school runs 50% weekly
I empty dishwasher daily
l manage finances and investments.
I put the bins and recycling out
I manage the garden and diy

We both work part time similar number of hours

You're absolutely right @Saysama I've gone round in circles for long enough, and nothing anyone says to me here will be the one thing that sets me off to do it. Nothing my friends or family say will do it either, and they're sick to the back teeth of this, I tell you! Even the possibility of a lovely future with someone really amazing could do it. The thought that I need to set an example to my sons of how not to conduct a happy relationship is not enough to do it, and that should be the number one reason to change things. I just hope it doesn't take a complete breakdown to finally get it all done.

Those of us on this thread have normalised our husbands behaviour so much, I bet nobody will believe you, @manalive1 !!!!!

@coodawoodashooda

Who mothers him at work?

I know MN doesn't have a like function, but if it did this post would have a 1000+ likes OP. It's not you. It's him, but stop enabling crappy behaviour.

I’m married to someone a bit like your DH but reading about your problems makes my husband look like a model father in comparison!

For me, it isn’t the actual division of the tasks that is important. Lots of people here suggesting that you should just do online shopping or make him a better list, get cleaners or whatever. It’s not about the tasks though, is it? Ultimately, you just want to feel like you can relax and things won’t fall apart the minute you take your eye off the ball. And you want to feel looked after, safe and held by someone who can share that load with you. Someone who will see you struggling and actively do something to take a load off you. Without you having to ask.

I realised that my aversion to having sex with my husband was actually down to having mothered him from the very beginning. We are having couples counselling but I think we will end up going our separate ways. He’s trying so hard but I don’t think he really gets me, even now.

This might be really helpful for you:

m.youtube.com/watch?v=MJxbiHBpSc4

@Fairylights25

Be very clear if he does not take his share on, and do so competently then you will reassessing the marriage. It is okay to communicate how you are feeling. If nothing changes then you have options.

or maybe it is too late for solutions?

I am in a v similar situation. This hit home.

19Bears

You're absolutely right @Saysama I've gone round in circles for long enough, and nothing anyone says to me here will be the one thing that sets me off to do it. Nothing my friends or family say will do it either, and they're sick to the back teeth of this, I tell you! Even the possibility of a lovely future with someone really amazing could do it. The thought that I need to set an example to my sons of how not to conduct a happy relationship is not enough to do it, and that should be the number one reason to change things. I just hope it doesn't take a complete breakdown to finally get it all done.

@19Bears - it’s not just about role-modelling a good relationship to your DCs.

It’s about inadvertently raising children in an inadequate environment where it is impossible to be attuned to them where you go on to fail to meet their emotional development needs - because you are preoccupied, stressed, exhausted and focused on the dysfunctional relationship

You cannot be in two emotional places at once.

You need to make a choice.

Do your DCs miss out because they get what’s left of you from a crappy relationship or do they get the best of you? They need the best of you and this comes either with a collaborative, supportive partnership or on your own.

Children sense and absorb toxic environments. They know when their mother is stressed, angry, afraid and they internalise this - but as they dont understand it or have the adult context - they are left confused and will not feel emotionally safe.

This will come through as anxieties / behaviours when younger and likely chronic MH issues as teens and young adults. The world is already grim enough for them outside with so many issues that they need a very safe, kind, calm, peaceful and respectful home to be emotionally nurtured in through their critical childhood years. Any parent who is compromising this environment needs to leave. Their emotional development trumps everything.

[quote Kindtomyself]@Jellycatspyjamas but isn’t no pants a bit rock n roll? Or is it just a bit manky?

It’s manky isn’t it[/quote]
If he wants to be rock n roll with then it demands daily washing. Which is cool if he's doing the washing. Or instas from the launderette daily....along with helping out with family washes

I left a partner of 8 years because he needed this kind of mothering (no kids, thank goodness). It was an incredible turn off for me, I didn’t want to sleep with someone so entitled and pathetic and abdicated all personal power and responsibilities. And it was so deeply irritating for a “partner” (hey, fella, clue is in the name!) to assume I was responsible for absolutely everything.

It is not unreasonable to end the relationship.

I’m really sorry for you OP, your dh sounds awful.

Just woken up and read some more responses. I feel sick. My poor beautiful DC they deserve so much more.

@Kindtomyself

I wouldn’t get ahead of yourself in getting swept up by your support on here and think it will actually translate to how your divorce plays out. Him Being lazy and a slob (which is easily deniable and he can say whatever he wants as well) isn’t going to get you a better settlement and it’s still extremely likely he’ll get his fair share of custody if he asks for it.
You “feeling like it’s abuse” when you fight and you look after him won’t count for much in court.

[quote TarasCrazyTiara]@Kindtomyself

I wouldn’t get ahead of yourself in getting swept up by your support on here and think it will actually translate to how your divorce plays out. Him Being lazy and a slob (which is easily deniable and he can say whatever he wants as well) isn’t going to get you a better settlement and it’s still extremely likely he’ll get his fair share of custody if he asks for it.
You “feeling like it’s abuse” when you fight and you look after him won’t count for much in court.[/quote]
Hi can I just check what you're trying to say here? Are you suggesting I should stay in this situation because I wouldn't get a good divorce settlement?

@Kindtomyself

No not at all. I am just saying that you have been airing your grievances about your husbands shoddy behaviour (and I’m totally on your side in him being lazy af) and because this is a women’s forum you have received replies which are totally supportive.

All I’m saying is, don’t take being supported so well here as an indication of what will happen in settlement/custody were he will just say he isn’t lazy and no one will be any more inclined to believe your word (as they are here).
I was just saying it in relation to you saying your poor DC deserve better. I agree but I’m not sure if you thought you could get better by taking them and having little contact with him - I was just warning you that it’s quite possible he could have a lot of contact with them still, so just be wise that Mumsnet isn’t going to decide that.

ESG nails it here
"It’s not about the tasks it’s a known pattern of behaviour of studied incompetence, entitlement, passive aggression and disrespect."

I married someone who turned out to be like this.

After 5 years of nagging, shouting, reasoning, becoming emotionally and physically drained, I put my foot down, stopped picking up after him and told him to either 'shape up or ship out'. His response was to start an affair with one of his subordinates. (Of course he told her he had an awful wife who didn't look after him properly and got her sympathy vote)

I divorced him and he eventually married her.

So now he's her problem

These guys don't change, best to get rid.

@19Bears

The only progress being I told dh we would never ever be having sex again, and have also seen a solicitor. It's a start I suppose. But I'm 45 soon and I don't want to get to 50 and still be where I am. Life was meant to begin at 40!

That's two steps in the right direction @19Bears. I'd actually give yourself a much closer deadline though - what's wrong with celebrating your 46th birthday with your decree nisi (or even better, decree absolute) in your possession? If you are able to start putting the steps in place, together with all the advice and knowledge you already have, isn't that a quantum leap to a more positive life? 🌹

@Kindtomyself

And I asked if I could see a statement for this (I’m not normally this weird asking for evidence but I just think he’s a liar). He shouted ‘How dare you speak to me like that. Who do you think you’re speaking to?’ He often shouts that if I question him

What a twat.

My Dh isn't perfect by any means, i work long hours part time but do have a toddler and 8 yr old, but at times in the past he seemed to think he shouldn't have to do anything, mainly I think as his mum was a sahm and his dad did nothing. I've had to point out exactly how much more stuff he'll have to do if I left him so stop moaning. and seems to think fairies do the laundry.

But he put petrol in my car without me asking the other day.

Your Dh is deflecting the discussion and reversing it back to you being at fault, rather than facing up to it. (Gottman talk a lot about this.)

If he has that little respect for the marriage that he can't discuss this stuff and won't entertain discussion nor counselling, you will only become more resentful.

My own issue is that Dh doesn't understand the mental load around the children and wider family life, but has begun to since I dropped some balls and the pandemic made him pick some up.

If he hadn't I'd be divorcing him now. As at times I felt I was his mum too. Man child behaviour isn't attractive.

Getting angry when you don’t toe the line and mixing it with being nice so you wonder if you haven’t been making a huge deal out of nothing. Reigning you back in.

OP, one thing I've learned on MN is some of the methods aggressors use to keep others, particularly their partners, emotionally unbalanced - eg:

DARVO is an acronym for "deny, attack, and reverse victim and offender". It is a common manipulation strategy of psychological abusers.

This sounds exactly like what your husband is doing to you, OP. Sounds like (in common with some others of the men being described on here) that he's an expert at it.

I know you mentioned counselling - I'd suggest that you might find this useful for yourself - but 1:1, not with him. From your posts it seems you are already awake to the unhappiness in your relationship. Maybe speaking to a professional, neutral therapist in real life might help you take the step of leaving a relationship which only brings unhappiness to you anyway. 🌹

Christ a few posts of yours I hadn't read OP.

No, I'd be long gone by now. He has no respect for you or even himself to be honest.

Don't let the kids see that this is acceptable behaviour from a man or partner.

Your Dh is deflecting the discussion and reversing it back to you being at fault, rather than facing up to it.

My own quote, there a fine line between DARVO and defensiveness and it sounds much more like the former here.