What do you consider a good/eligible man?

[Anonnyno]

Often see this expressed on dating threads: "all the good men are taken" or "the good ones get snapped up fast".

So just curious what posters consider "good" in this context. Obviously being kind, thoughtful, respectful, not a creep, etc, count - but aren't these something to be expected in any decent partner, rather than attractive qualities in and of themselves?

What makes someone "eligible" as opposed to just "alright" in your book?

There's also something about translating how a woman expresses her values and how a man does - it's to do with expression of gender, how we have been socialised.

The same values- for example caring, responsibility - come out differently. A man who is solvent, has a good work ethic, has set up a comfortable home for himself, has taken the trouble to become skilled in his work - he might see it as "providing for" but that's how care /responsibility/self respect, valuing yourself are encoded for men, traditionally. For a woman it might be wanting to have a good career to get the flexibility to truly care well for her children and not to depend on a man - as that's how responsibility and self worth are encoded for women. They might want the same things but express it in different ways. Doesn't mean she's a gold digger, because for a man NOT to be solvent, that's a pretty good indication that he's not picking up on broader social values around how to signal ambition, drive etc. (MH issues or other challenges aside, of course).

As a sidebar this goes for hobbies too - I have a friend who bemoans that she can't find a guy who like arty crafty stuff like she does, knitting and things... while passing up writers, sound engineers... I want to say you know he might just be expressing the same impulse as you, but differently??

@Eleganz

So many women on here saying 'good job' "high earner" - bit depressing really.

Why; do you think it means they want their partner to subsidise them? Maybe they don't want to subsidise their partner?

I don't even live with my partner, and am not looking for someone to have children with, but I still want a guy who can hold down a job, has a similar level of education/intelligence as me and is roughly my social equal. In my case that's not a specially high level, but for another woman it will be. When you're looking for a partner, the job they have is a rough guide to their education, intelligence and social standing. (Sure, there are exceptions, but you have to base your search on something.)

@ThousandsOfTulips
It's not just that, most men (note the most!!) do not like educated women..

I think this statement is true and not true at the same time.

I’m more interested in education than dating TBH, but I also think there is a strong link between the 2, so here goes

In the UK & US and most of Western Europe girls are out achieving boys in education in almost every measure, for every 100 grads in the UK this year the split will be about 45 male and 55 female, these are well known published Government figures

www.hepi.ac.uk/2020/03/07/mind-the-gap-gender-differences-in-higher-education/

So if education is important to an educated the pool of educated men is already smaller than that of women.

Then you need to factor in dating strategies

Men tend to date equal and down, women tend to date equal and up, and again there is quite good data on this

quillette.com/2020/01/16/all-the-single-ladies/

So for educated women, I think they are painting themselves (dating themselves if you like ), into a corner with the equal and up strategy as there simply are not enough equally educated men.( look at some of the responses on this thread)

For educated men it’s best of both worlds, they have a big pool of educated women and even bigger pool of “less” educated women to choose from and as men tend to date equal and down that’s no problem for them.

Men with “less” education are still going to have a pool of “less” educated women to date.

Finally I think this country (and the western world), is failing the educational needs of boys and young men, and if you want the address the issues above we (as a society), need to tackle the underachievement in education in our young men,
Take a look at the boys to men report, as a man who values education, it’s a pretty sad read,

www.hepi.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Boys-to-Men.pdf

I only had a quick look but the report seems entirely focused on academia. If boys are making their way in trades, is there really a problem? Is encouraging more boys into non-STEM degrees - along with student debt and poor earnings prospects - a solution or just doing them a massive disservice?

More to the point though: I'm genuinely not sure what 'educated' means in the context of this thread. Having an arts degree? The engineers I know are a pretty philistine lot.

@ravenmum - yes a man who can hold down a good job is good but I don’t think you necessarily have to have same standard of education.

My DB is married to his DW and when they met he didn’t have a degree but did work and decided (supported by his DW) to retrain and go to a specialist college to gain a degree, he felt though slightly pressured from other family members re degrees as they all have them. He’s worked since and will always work but at one point his in-laws were saying about his DW marrying someone with a better job which she could’ve done (she’s in the arts) but she’s always stayed with DB and been happy despite him being out of work during most of 2020 during the pandemic (he works in films/TV). But he’s an excellent father and provided most of childcare last year to their young son and coped with stress and depression too. So now ILs have changed their opinion of him. They’re sort of similar in social standing too though from the outside it might not be that obvious.

I am what you would call 'educated' in that I have a degree, and am a bit of a science nerd even, but I'm certainly not looking for someone who has also been to university, it just doesn't matter. I had a semi-flirtation with a professor who was very attractive physically and mentally to me, and me to him. But the man I let go and who was everything I didn't realise I wanted, he left school early, had kids young and worked as a litter picker for years. He's the love of my bloody life

I wonder if education/career becomes more of thing on OLD? I think both genders might be guilty of applying filters or judging profiles based on criteria they wouldn’t necessarily apply meeting someone in real life. When you don’t know someone things like “works as a lawyer/doctor/architect” or “has a Masters degree” become shorthand for “desirable”, I guess, as they’re aspirational qualities.

My DH met with my criteria

(Very) attractive, intelligent, confident but without ego, kind, generous, (very) funny, feminist, successful career and ambitious, dog lover, humble but not self critical, sociable and chatty but not too extrovert (that would exhaust me as an I introvert!), practical, able to show and talk about emotions, romantic. I also wanted to meet someone who likes attention in their relationship as much as I do! Some might consider us as being too much ‘in each other’s pockets’ but it suits us, we love being together as much as possible and it was important to me to meet someone that wanted that ‘kind’ of marriage

Or if not aspirational, shorthand for “like me”.

man who can hold down a good job is good but I don’t think you necessarily have to have same standard of education
You don't have to, no, but personally I would like someone with a similar level of intelligence. I wouldn't want to be bored, and I wouldn't want to be boring. And I'm thinking more of online dating, where you do end up relying on very rough indicators of intelligence like their educational background or what they do.

(I also live in a different country to where I grew up, so have less in common with any of the men than most women. So both having a degree is at least one thing in common!)

@Catullus5
I’m a big believer in education, and yes I get your point that lots of men go into trade, but when was the last time you saw a bricklayer dating a woman with a post graduate degree?

But the report sums it up better than I can (this from the US so mention college)
So maybe it’s actually 2 fold, women may need to change their dating strategy and young men need to pushed into training/ education / trade, rather than just doing nothing,

In short, there are far more educated women than educated men. Educated women, on average, prefer men who are educated as well. And among couples in which the woman has more education, they tend to prefer men who earn more than themselves. But the reality is that fewer young men are graduating from college compared to women, fewer men are employed, and fewer men are seeking employment. The dating pool is shrinking for women who are interested in successful, educated, men with good career prospects. In such an environment, hookup culture becomes more widespread, which women tend not to like as much as men. The romantic landscape is rosy for educated men, who are more open to dating both educated and less educated women. But for women, the situation doesn’t look as great.

@Anonnyno

Or if not aspirational, shorthand for “like me”.

Maybe “there are no good men left” might translate to “there are no men like me left”. (If you think educational / social status are key values), and you are using OLD filters?

@Catullus5

ThousandsOfTulips,

Actually, the crux of that article FabulousMrFifty linked to is that women aren't dating 'down' - which in a financial sense could be misleading. If your degree discipline is one on which women predominate it's doubtful that your earning prospects would be better than those of a tradie.

It's not just earnings, though. Women who are well-educated and well-read generally want a partner that they can have intellectual conversations with, and generally speaking mostly than means men with a similar education.

[quote FabulousMrFifty]@Catullus5
I’m a big believer in education, and yes I get your point that lots of men go into trade, but when was the last time you saw a bricklayer dating a woman with a post graduate degree?

But the report sums it up better than I can (this from the US so mention college)
So maybe it’s actually 2 fold, women may need to change their dating strategy and young men need to pushed into training/ education / trade, rather than just doing nothing,

In short, there are far more educated women than educated men. Educated women, on average, prefer men who are educated as well. And among couples in which the woman has more education, they tend to prefer men who earn more than themselves. But the reality is that fewer young men are graduating from college compared to women, fewer men are employed, and fewer men are seeking employment. The dating pool is shrinking for women who are interested in successful, educated, men with good career prospects. In such an environment, hookup culture becomes more widespread, which women tend not to like as much as men. The romantic landscape is rosy for educated men, who are more open to dating both educated and less educated women. But for women, the situation doesn’t look as great.[/quote]
The only bit of this I definitely have issue with is “the landscape is rosy for educated men”. There seems to be a conflation of “educated” meaning “high earning” which isn’t necessarily the case at all. A self-employed plumber, for example, could earn far more than a graduate in a standard office role.

So, if we’re considering both the education and earnings are at play, then that really only applies to those with certain careers - again, doctors, lawyers, senior managers - as opposed to graduates per se.

And where do people employed by the military/police/fire service factor into this? All are considered highly desirable professions, at least in the circles I move in.

Decent, responsible, well balanced, not needy, kind, honest, intelligent, considerate, solvent
Physical attributes come way down the list to be honest.

I am gay (female, date women), so I don't know if my perspective differs to that of a straight woman or not.

I couldn't care less about someone's career, special skills, education level, how much money they make, whether they read books, whether they drive, own their own house, etc.

What makes someone desirable to me is how they behave as a partner. Whether they're open, loyal, playful, balanced, emotionally intelligent, giving, kind, etc.

Bad financial management and extreme materialism put me off a person. I expect someone to be able to look after themselves, or at least to be working properly towards that.

Maybe it's different for me, because I'm not looking for someone to share a home with or have children with. I care about the stability of a person (mental, emotional, financial, etc.), but not specifically what they do or how much they earn.

@FabulousMrFifty I’m a big believer in education, and yes I get your point that lots of men go into trade, but when was the last time you saw a bricklayer dating a woman with a post graduate degree?

Me!

• I should add that I've had male partners in the past and was looking for the same things. Salary/job type didn't matter to me then either.

@ThousandsOfTulips

It's not just earnings, though. Women who are well-educated and well-read generally want a partner that they can have intellectual conversations with, and generally speaking mostly than means men with a similar education

I 100% agree with you, and as a man it makes me sad that more men don’t aspire to this, but what do I know 🤷🏼‍♂️

Kind, honest, measured and not into drama/arguments etc.

I would like someone with a similar level of intelligence.

This. I am less bothered about formal education, but an interest in learning and not just writing off anything you don't ready know about as boring is good.

DH has very few friends. He’s quite shy and reserved. He’s not very manly at all- absolutely not an alpha male. And shit at DIY.

He is however:
Insanely intelligent (as in has a PhD- although so do I and has won every award in his academic field sort of intelligent)
Interesting (aka we can still chat for hours, reads widely etc)
Funny
Kind and compassionate
And a feminist.

He has taken time off to advance my career (I earn much less), is enormously supportive and is genuinely an equal parent and partner.

We were 21 when we met. He’s now, in his own words, a balding middle aged Asian man. But he’s still the smartest, funniest, kindest man I have ever met.

But. He’s also taciturn, comes across as a bit awkward and shy to other people and is never going to the heart and soul of any party.

In no particular order:
Good looks. Robust, fit and healthy.
Funny.
Younger than me.
Ability to make a stable living (level of earnings being less important than stability and consistency of earnings) So high competence in a skill area that will always be in demand, plus a strong work ethic.
No children and not wanting any, or existing children in a situation with healthy relationships and minimal issues.
Good existing friendship group comprising fun, supportive people. Ideally family meeting this criteria too.
No strong preoccupation with any particular hobby.
Shared values, particularly around politics and social issues.
A 'man's man', definitely not a 'ladies man'
No issues with alcohol ('issues' to be defined by me, not him)
Considers me the woman of his dreams.

@Saysama

It’s interesting that some pp think the only reason a woman would want a man with a good job is so that she can live off him. It’s an incredibly sexist interpretation of said desire, and I think it’s quite telling with regards to certain people’s mindsets. And rather sad.

No. I am ambitious, well educated and successful at what I do. I earn considerably more than average. And I wanted the same in my partner. I found someone who fit the bill (in this and other ways, as stated upthread) and together we have a rather lovely life (financially and otherwise).

Our separate incomes are fine, but our combined incomes provide us with an excellent standard of living. We both wanted said excellent standard of living, and together we have it.

100% this. I have worked very hard to be able to do the things I do, and I'm simply not prepared to go without because my partner can't afford to do any of it. I've had this experience before and it was horrible. It wasn't just the money, it was the total lack of ambition. I had dreams of a lifestyle of long weekends in New York, winter sun in the Canaries, exploring Asia, buying a nice home. He was happy to earn just over minimum wage and go to the same pub every Friday night. He was also holding me back with his total lack of ambition or interest in growing/improving himself.

Having a lack of money is extremely limiting and it makes your world very small. I'm not going back to that.

@Allsortsofroses

never understood why the other women were good enough but I wasn't.

This is such typical thinking for women unfortunately. And such a fallacy.

He slept with you but didn't pursue a relationship most likely because he was playing the field in his 20s.

He did offer/try to get involved with you later, perhaps when he was more open to something steady and you declined; so how were you not good enough or lesser than other women.

Given wgat you know of him since it was a wise decision.

Also the coercion when when slept with him says further disturbing things about his character.

Wimen always think mens behaviour is personal to them when it's clearly their own character.

Would you like to be his wife with him attempting to cheat on you all the time. Suppose depends of its worth the country pile to someone.

And he wasn't even a good shag from memory.