Constructive help understanding this please

[Franklyfrost]

I’d really like some advice, perspective and practical suggestions. It’s me, my dp, my 4 dc, 11, 9, 5 and 3. Dc 11 and dc 9 are exdh’s, dc 5 and 3 are dp’s.

Back story:
Dc 11 is lovely and can be very endearing and interesting. He is also pubescent, plus has SEN, so there’s no denying he often is hard work to be around. Dp and Ds 11 don’t have a good relationship- a vicious circle of them being rude to each other, I wish my dp would stop and treat ds 11 more like a child who needs love rather than an irritation. If dp made the effort to not engage in conflict and tried to develop a connection I’m sure ds 11’s behaviour toward him would improve. Dp knows this but just wants to be obeyed by ds 11.

Every 4 months or so my partner has grabbed or shoved ds. I’ve told him it’s unacceptable. He says he won’t do it again. As ds 11 is getting older- he’s very tall for an 11 year old, wears age 14 clothes- it’s become more shocking and the last time dp grabbed him, which was this summer, I really explained at length how it was not okay for my dp to grab or shove or drag ds 11 or dc 9 (he’s done it a few times but less with dc 9).

Yesterday morning dp grabbed ds 11, lifted him and in doing so banged his head against a piece of furniture. Ds 11 had accidentally hurt ds 5 while playing with him- enough to make ds 5 cry for a few seconds but nothing serious. Ds 11 freaked out- he wasn’t badly hurt at all but had hit his head and teeth. I came into the room because of all the shouting- asked what had happened, checked with the dc and then went to tell dp that he couldn’t behave like that. Dp then started screaming at me, yelled at the top of his voice and then left the room. He came back from work that evening and refused to talk to me.

When I came to bed I said we had to discuss what had happened. He repeated much the same stuff he yelled in the morning: that ds 11 had kicked dc 5, which he had but dp didn’t mention the fact that he only kicked him lightly by accident while playing. Dp said lots about how I should support him and be in his side, that it was my fault for not telling him how what to do with dc 11 (I have explained many techniques, provided literature and we even did 12 weeks of cbt as part of the NHS well-being treatment for ds 11). He listed all my parenting fails and I pointed out none of them involved violence and they were all followed with an apology and an explanation. When I said he couldn’t touch my children dp replied well we live together so that’s not very practical- when it was obvious I meant not touch my children in anger or with violence. I told him I wanted an apology, that he needed to say sorry to ds 11 and I went to sleep on the sofa. Dp did apologise to ds 11, although it was ‘I’m sorry you got hurt’ rather than ‘I’m sorry I hurt you’. I didn’t hear any of the rest of the apology but I expect it was along the lines of ‘you hurt dc 5 and didn’t move when I asked so I had to move you’.

He messaged me during the day today and said ‘I’m sorry’ to which I replied ‘why are you sorry? I would like to know that you understand why your behaviour was so upsetting. You overstepped a clear boundary which you had previously agreed to. The subsequent aggression and minimising doesn’t assure me that you understand that boundary and won’t do the same thing again. I love you and want us to be okay. You made a mistake and you can make it better. Try this:
I apologise for ……..
I did it because …….
I wish I hadn’t done it because …..
In future I will…..
X
I’m not trying to be bossy but to explain clearly what would help me feel better.’
He didn’t reply or even open the message, came home from work and gave me the silent treatment again. What is going on? He lost his temper and acted badly why won’t he apologise? Am I being unreasonable? I’ve been working really hard to make our relationship better but I can’t let this slide. Advice please. I won’t be ltb for a few years as I am doing a vocational degree which will allow me to support myself and the children independently down the line. For me having dp as a stepfather for a few years is better than living in poverty for your whole childhood. Dp acts like he can’t see what he did or why it’s wrong. He doesn’t even seem to know he lost his temper. What do I do? Am in being a bitch or over reacting? How do I protect my kids and get dp see that he cannot shove or grab my kids. I don’t understand how he thinks it could be okay. Is it okay? He’s not perfect but I don’t think he’s an idiot or a monster despite evidence to the contrary. And, I love him.

A lot of this post has been about dp because my question is about dp’s behaviour but my son’s well being is the priority here. Any help in understanding or navigating this situation much appreciated. And sorry this is so long…

I feel sad that he’s only 11 too - they look more grownup at that age but they’re still young kids in many ways. My ds11 is as tall as me but he still cuddles up to me when we’re watching telly sometimes and still needs me to teach and tell him things. I couldn’t imagine my DH grabbing him and throwing him so he bangs his head/pushing or pulling him around. It would break my heart.

I hope you do the right thing, OP, for the sake of your children.

If you need help to get out of this relationship, or just even want to discuss it privately and confidentially with a professional, you should contact Refuge on:

0808 2000 247

This is absolutely insane. I can't believe this is real.

OP will be back on here in a few years wondering why her kids have cut contact with her.

[quote Franklyfrost]@whistleryukon

• whistleryukon

For someone who who claims that they are looking for advice and guidance, you sure do have a very patronising manner. Firstly, all of the posters who have told you that your partner is abusive are wrong, they don't understand abuse, they're lying about their professions. Then anyone who uses any language you deem to be 'insulting' is also disregarded. Next, every other answer that you don't like just because nobody here could possibly have ever been poor and also have children. Just go and write your own response to your question in private, perhaps?*

I’m not trying to be patronising. In my eyes my dp shouldn’t touch the children and my dp disagrees. Everyone on this thread agrees that what do is wrong. That is helpful. There is a psychological explanation even for wrong actions. I don’t know how to understand why someone normally reasonable would behave like this.[/quote]
He behaves like this because they aren't his children and he finds them difficult to deal with.

He could put effort into changing his ways and managing his aggression to be a better person but he doesn't really want to because he's not that bothered by your kids.

He doesn't love them (they will know this) he barely tolerates them so that he can have his life with you.

If he could choose they wouldn't exist or they'd move away to their own dads. He can't say this out loud of course as he's show his true colours to you. He bottles it up and very so often he explodes.

That's why he does this. He doesn't like your children and wishes they didn't exist. Let that sink in.

Put your children first for Christ's sake. You are letting all four children grow up in a toxic environment. I wonder how mean he is to your eldest two when you aren't there?

Have you considered that the violence you 'are' aware of is only the tip of the iceberg?

OP, you are desperate for one of us to tell you that this behaviour is okay. Not a single poster has. The only person trying to justify anything is you. If this were a teacher, neighbour or friend pushing your child, would you stand for it? The fact the abuser is in a relationship with you and taking a parental role for your child doesn't make it justified - it makes it worse.

Woah I think listening to how your mother treated your baby your perspective is VERY off
I'm afraid.

Also, the other unfortunate truth is that your husband does not respect you. He sees himself very much as top dog with the right to do whatever he wants (including violence) to whomever he wants.

He won't apologise / admit to his behaviour being wrong because he doesn't believe it is wrong and mainly because he doesn't care what you think.

Bloody hell this is depressing. @Franklyfrost this is abuse and all your children need protecting from this. It's only going to escalate as your 11-year-old bets bigger, stronger and full of hormones.

You seem so concerned about your children having the security of two adults yet unable to see that there is no security in life for children living with an abusive adult and their enabler.

@Franklyfrost In your early posts you say it ok to hit a child because it’s not illegal in the UK. It is illegal in Scotland.
Scotland's ban on parents smacking their children has become law, making it the first part of the UK to outlaw physical punishment of under-16s. ... The new law means that the so-called "justifiable assault" defence is no longer available. It seeks to give children the same protection from assault as adults.7 Nov 2020

Just because something is legal where you live it doesn’t make it ok. Your children are living in a house hold where violence is normalised.

I think you are minimising this because you grew up in a situation where you were hit and you think you’ve turned out okay.
I also grew up in a house where a parent would sometimes loose their temper and where smacking (not in angry way) was a punishment. This was fairly normal behaviour at that time in history. I don’t think it’s affected me either. But there is such a huge huge difference here in that I knew my parents loved me. It was obvious they did in so many ways. I didn’t feel unwanted in my own home even when I was behaving badly. You’ve said your dp doesn’t like your children. 11 year olds are not stupid. He knows he’s living in a house where he is hated and unwanted. And he knows you don’t care enough to fix it. No matter what you think this is going to affect him long term and I think you can’t wait a few years. It will be too late by then.

Just think about being your son.

He's forced to live in a house where he is bottom of the pile (younger siblings treated more favourably than he is), treading on eggshells around a man who doesn't like him or understand him and from time to time shouts at him or shoves him and a mother who doesn't protect him.

Sounds pretty miserable. Your husband dislikes your child and isn't able to treat him fairly. Why are you minimising the situation?

Well why don't you call our bluff as to whether or not this is abuse. Ask SS to interview the 11 yr old SEN lad and see what their final report is. Yeah, right. That's never going to happen is it? I hope the poor kid goes to school and tells a teacher what has happened.
Surely an abusive home life is not helpful for a SEN child?
Many of us have had to live on benefits. I did while I was studying for a degree and I managed adequately with careful budgetting. To be rid of the bastard I lived with and finally to get a higher paid job was very rewarding. Maybe you need to do the sums to work out a solution for you.

[quote Franklyfrost]@JurgensCakeBaby

I’m in the uk so if you’re inclined to, you’re free to hit your kids so long as it doesn’t leave a mark/ lasting physical damage. Not something I’d advocate obviously.[/quote]
This is not true. Look up the law in Scotland.Wales is changing its laws too.

Your poor son. You are allowing your partner to abuse and assault him.

I have an 11 year old boy with SN, if my DH who IS his father, did this to him he would be gone. It is your responsibility to protect your children from abuse. You are making excuses for your partner, but need to put your children first.

@Franklyfrost

@ OnyxOryx

Thanks. That’s really helpful.

I have protected my children for being hit- my mother has never been left alone with my children as with my first born she would slap them hard for minor transgressions for example baby pulling her necklace. It is difficult, having been around that, to see how wrong this is.

Okay, it sounds like you need help, and not the sort you get on mumsnet.

Your mother would slap your baby ‘hard’ for playing with her necklace? And judging by the use of ‘would’ and ‘minor transgressions’ this happened more than just the once. And now your husband is allowed to abuse your child repeatedly.

That’s not normal. The first time should be the last time. It should be ‘he raised his hands on my child in anger, we’re done’ not ‘he gets angry and hurts my kid, let’s see what mumsnet thinks about why he does that.’

I mean would you be this blasé if it was you he was hurting and pushing around?

I really hope this is a troll thread.

You know that this behaviour is wrong otherwise you wouldn't have posted on here about it. I am a Social worker and this absolutely would warrant involvement from children's services. Your child has been injured when your partner has become angry and grabbed him - this is not OK! how do you know next time it won't be something worse or that things will escalate as your DS gets older and possibly more challenging? All it would take is for your DS to say something in school about the way he is being given treated and you would find yourself open to children's services. You know what you need to do

What does past behaviour got to do with your toss pot man hitting your children and future life?
Better to live with nothing then being hurt. Can you image being hurt on your face and teeth? I can imagine it, but why can't you, Op. Why can't you imagine the hurt this monster is doing to you all. Shame on you. Live in your son's shoes for a time. You're not living back in the 70s or 80s, you are living now and so is your son. Who cares what people did in any history of life. This is now. I have no words.

I didn't get to the end of this. As a child who was physically 'disciplined' in by an adult who worked out their anger on the world on us I am shocked that you are still with this bully. You are choosing him over your children's emotional and physical safety.

You have made some poor choices in bringing this man into your children's home and having DC with him. Don't make these worse by staying with him. Show your children their safety is your priority by removing him from their home.

Op you have 4 children. So far your DP abuses the 2 that are not his biologically.
It's bad enough that you are allowing this.
Will he move on to abusing the 2 children who are biologically his also?

Does he treat HIS DC the same way? Because this behaviour is either because he is territorial over his DC and will 'punish' anyone that hurts them, regardless of how it happened.

If he is the same with all the DC the. He just believes that he has the right to be authoritarian to the DC. They are second to him and his wishes. while everything is nice, he's nice.

Which one do you think it is?

I’m not convinced that moving house, having no money for food, clothes, transport, heating etc plus looking after their pensionless mother in old age etc is better than having an adult move you every few months in a manner that doesn’t hurt but is briefly unpleasant.

Do you think that being moved by your DP every few months is all your DC have to put up with? What's it like between those incidents? Is everything fine? Or are you/your DC walking on eggshells? Are there any verbal clashes between them that don't involve being physically moved?

I think you're minimising the effect your DP's anger and inability to manage your DS's SEN has on all of you and have boiled it down to the physical clashes and are ignoring the emotional impact.

In terms of why he does it, I agree with pp that you are showing him it's ok. You might think you're telling him the opposite by sitting him down and talking to him, but your actions are supporting his behaviour.

No adult should physically touch a child in anger. He's not keeping your DS safe; he's losing his temper with him. Physically and verbally. It's that simple.

@StarCourt

Op you have 4 children. So far your DP abuses the 2 that are not his biologically. It's bad enough that you are allowing this. Will he move on to abusing the 2 children who are biologically his also?

In my experience, not so likely. He’s likely just to ramp up and escalate his abuse on the stepson, which in a way is yet more damaging.

You're allowing your partner to abuse your children. You don't think that it's " against the law" Jesus. Social Services would also be very interested. Why don't you see what they think.

I really hope your son tells someone who actually gives a shit about his safety and they can do something to help him. You are failing him every single day you stay with this abusive twat.