Constructive help understanding this please

[Franklyfrost]

I’d really like some advice, perspective and practical suggestions. It’s me, my dp, my 4 dc, 11, 9, 5 and 3. Dc 11 and dc 9 are exdh’s, dc 5 and 3 are dp’s.

Back story:
Dc 11 is lovely and can be very endearing and interesting. He is also pubescent, plus has SEN, so there’s no denying he often is hard work to be around. Dp and Ds 11 don’t have a good relationship- a vicious circle of them being rude to each other, I wish my dp would stop and treat ds 11 more like a child who needs love rather than an irritation. If dp made the effort to not engage in conflict and tried to develop a connection I’m sure ds 11’s behaviour toward him would improve. Dp knows this but just wants to be obeyed by ds 11.

Every 4 months or so my partner has grabbed or shoved ds. I’ve told him it’s unacceptable. He says he won’t do it again. As ds 11 is getting older- he’s very tall for an 11 year old, wears age 14 clothes- it’s become more shocking and the last time dp grabbed him, which was this summer, I really explained at length how it was not okay for my dp to grab or shove or drag ds 11 or dc 9 (he’s done it a few times but less with dc 9).

Yesterday morning dp grabbed ds 11, lifted him and in doing so banged his head against a piece of furniture. Ds 11 had accidentally hurt ds 5 while playing with him- enough to make ds 5 cry for a few seconds but nothing serious. Ds 11 freaked out- he wasn’t badly hurt at all but had hit his head and teeth. I came into the room because of all the shouting- asked what had happened, checked with the dc and then went to tell dp that he couldn’t behave like that. Dp then started screaming at me, yelled at the top of his voice and then left the room. He came back from work that evening and refused to talk to me.

When I came to bed I said we had to discuss what had happened. He repeated much the same stuff he yelled in the morning: that ds 11 had kicked dc 5, which he had but dp didn’t mention the fact that he only kicked him lightly by accident while playing. Dp said lots about how I should support him and be in his side, that it was my fault for not telling him how what to do with dc 11 (I have explained many techniques, provided literature and we even did 12 weeks of cbt as part of the NHS well-being treatment for ds 11). He listed all my parenting fails and I pointed out none of them involved violence and they were all followed with an apology and an explanation. When I said he couldn’t touch my children dp replied well we live together so that’s not very practical- when it was obvious I meant not touch my children in anger or with violence. I told him I wanted an apology, that he needed to say sorry to ds 11 and I went to sleep on the sofa. Dp did apologise to ds 11, although it was ‘I’m sorry you got hurt’ rather than ‘I’m sorry I hurt you’. I didn’t hear any of the rest of the apology but I expect it was along the lines of ‘you hurt dc 5 and didn’t move when I asked so I had to move you’.

He messaged me during the day today and said ‘I’m sorry’ to which I replied ‘why are you sorry? I would like to know that you understand why your behaviour was so upsetting. You overstepped a clear boundary which you had previously agreed to. The subsequent aggression and minimising doesn’t assure me that you understand that boundary and won’t do the same thing again. I love you and want us to be okay. You made a mistake and you can make it better. Try this:
I apologise for ……..
I did it because …….
I wish I hadn’t done it because …..
In future I will…..
X
I’m not trying to be bossy but to explain clearly what would help me feel better.’
He didn’t reply or even open the message, came home from work and gave me the silent treatment again. What is going on? He lost his temper and acted badly why won’t he apologise? Am I being unreasonable? I’ve been working really hard to make our relationship better but I can’t let this slide. Advice please. I won’t be ltb for a few years as I am doing a vocational degree which will allow me to support myself and the children independently down the line. For me having dp as a stepfather for a few years is better than living in poverty for your whole childhood. Dp acts like he can’t see what he did or why it’s wrong. He doesn’t even seem to know he lost his temper. What do I do? Am in being a bitch or over reacting? How do I protect my kids and get dp see that he cannot shove or grab my kids. I don’t understand how he thinks it could be okay. Is it okay? He’s not perfect but I don’t think he’s an idiot or a monster despite evidence to the contrary. And, I love him.

A lot of this post has been about dp because my question is about dp’s behaviour but my son’s well being is the priority here. Any help in understanding or navigating this situation much appreciated. And sorry this is so long…

I don’t think that using the word abuse is appropriate. It exaggerates what is happening and is disrespectful to those who have suffered actual abuse. To put this in perspective the met says that

It’s sad you are trying to wheedle this to minimise and cover your DH’s abuse. As a mandatory reporter I can assure you that if your DS told me this or I found this out in the course of an examination, I would be bound to report it. If this is something he mentioned at school they would be bound to report it.

Sorry to burst your bubble and inconvenience you, as that’s what this is essentially, but that’s reality.

When I said he couldn’t touch my children dp replied well we live together so that’s not very practical- when it was obvious I meant not touch my children in anger or with violence.

He knew very well what you meant. The issue is he thinks touching in anger and/or with violence is normal and acceptable - and you are enabling this. If my DH ever did this to any of our kids, and by fuck they are challenging in tween/teen years especially with SN and at times you need to restrain every fibre of your being from smashing them into a wall let alone anything lesser, you MUST have that restraint, no ifs or buts - he would have been shifted pronto at that point.

Your husband doesn't love your DS. So he easily loses his temper with him. And in anger physically hurts him. Your son is regularly submitted to emotional and (albeit low-level) physical abuse. It's astounding how blind you are to what's happening under your nose. I'd be surprised if your DS wasn't resentful as an adult towards you for allowing this to continue for his childhood.

You say you’ve told him it’s unacceptable but you’re accepting it. Like it is acceptable to you because you keep accepting it.

I don’t think you want to hear that your husband is abusing your son, and that it’s even worse than that because he’s being betrayed by his mother and his stepdad singling him out of a group of siblings to receive abuse, so I will try and give you constructive advice.

Is there a grandparent/aunt/uncle/other relative that could be a safe haven for your son? It’s important that children feel they have some sort of safe space from abuse. If he had a relative he could go to for frequent visits and overnights it might really help his mental health, as the abuse and singling out will be affecting him hugely.

You will keep putting up with this because in your eyes it's not abuse.

What happens when something really dangerous/life risking happens? Is that the only time you will not be blinkered?

Staying with someone because you can't deal with being poor? A shameful decision. I would rather be poor than abused.
Maybe your son would agree with that statement too?!

Leave the twat before it's too late... only you will be to blame for not protecting your DC.

You are minimising the abuse your partner is inflicting on your oldest. Let those motherly instincts kick in and get the hell out of there.

Examples of physical abuse are:
hitting, slapping, shaking or throwing
burning or scalding
drowning, suffocating or choking
pushing or kicking
inappropriate restraint or false imprisonment
using physical force to discipline
misusing medication
fabricating or inducing an illness or ill health

Also you’ve used this as proof your child isn’t being abused, but it actually directly shows he is. Your husband used physical force to discipline him when he lifted him and banged his head on furniture. He also pushes him.

As he’s getting away with it it will likely escalate so there’s a good chance you’ll be seeing some of the other stuff in the near future.

Didn’t anyone on this thread get hit as a child? I grew up in the uk but with parents from different cultures and was regularly hit, mainly slapped on the head and face. It wasn’t ideal and I’d never do it to my kids but what my dp does isn’t comparable to my childhood and my childhood is still entirely legal today.

Yes, absolutely. I’m considerably wrong side of middle age. We got smacked, got the strap/belt and were caned at school. I would be in the group who said it never hurt me and was in fact the difference of my gen and the following gens who can’t take any sort of adversity and live with a sense of entitlement BUT if you read the eleventy billion threads on here there are many people claiming that what you (and I) experienced has had such a profound effect on them that they range from alienated from their parents through to completely damaged and non-functional.

Irrespective, YOU don’t get to make the rules now. I can say a caning at school never hurt me in the great scheme of things. That doesn’t mean it’s acceptable because it’s against the rules. Doesn’t matter what I think. Similarly, you have spent a lot of time and effort in trying to weasel current definitions around to enable your DH, which frankly is pathetic. I can tell you that if I, no matter what my personal beliefs on whether it is good or bad, did what your DH does, to my kids at any point and this came to light I would likely have had my ability to practice removed or best case severely restricted/supervised. I don’t get to make rules and try and twist them for personal gain, I just have to adhere to them like them or not.

The bottom line is it’s not okay and you really know that by trying to delve, research and twist it to cover for your DH to try and claim he is within the line. If you truly knew he was you wouldn’t have to do this and you know it.

You have asked multiple times why he is doing it, why he won’t see what he is doing is not right, why he won’t stop. The answer given, but that you completely fail to take on is - why would he. He knows you are going to enable him no matter what. He knows that you have his back over your kids and he knows there won’t be any consequences as long as he has you to cover. He is giving you the silent treatment as a form of punishment to bring you back in line so you don’t buck his system. The sad fact is he has you pegged and knows you will always allow him the upper hand.

You say your DS is large for his age. This is good. Hopefully it won’t be long until he gives it back, shoves your DH into a wall in self-defence or something to get his hands off him. I presume you will still be covering for your DH though when this occurs?

Why he does it and doesn't apologise really shouldn't be the focus of your thoughts and concern.

You've been justifying to everyone on here that what he does is ok but yet you're very angry with him because you actually don't think that what he has done is ok.

The potential for this situation to escalate is huge as your son grows even more adult sized & as your partner builds up more anger and resentment towards children who are not biologically his own. Will you be able to live with yourself if/when something far worse happens down the line? It's not really the sort of situation where you ride it out & hope for the best. Do you feel comfortable leaving him as sole parent in charge when you have errands to run etc.? How safe do you think your sons feel when you go out or they find themselves alone with him?

Never mind his motivations, he basically sounds like an arrogant bigoted bully - he won't apologise because why would he when you also are saying on here that it wasn't that bad? At some level you've probably also projected this opinion at home too to your sons. Please reread this thread and everyone's comments. There would be support out there for you if you did leave him - sometimes our life plans get derailed and we end up in situations that aren't what we imagined or hoped and maybe what you can do has to change as a result but please don't end up in a situation where you could regret staying when you know you could survive if you left - just imagine something terrible happens in the future as this escalated & you've basically ignored so many people who are trying to give you the constructive advice you requested in this thread

Sad that you don't realise that you are failing your son. Hopefully the violence doesn't escalate and he can leave as soon as he's old enough and be away from you. I was your son. I'm NC with all my family because they all knew what was going on and did nothing. This is your future.

Your partner is physically abusing your son and you’re making excuses for him. It’s disgusting.

There are people who do bad things, and people who see bad things being done and do nothing about it.

Both are equally wrong.

You need to protect your son and leave right now.

Presumably you’ve told your partner you are mainly with him to take his cash?
Your unwillingness to put your children’s safety first is very saddening. I wish I hadn’t opened this thread.

This isn’t really abuse, some just jump right on that bandwagon for anything male related here - however it’s not really effective parenting either.
This is why it’s not really wise to have dc with two different men in the same household unless he is the only real father figure of both. You parent your children together and then you have more say over your own children under the same roof. What a mess!

How do you know your kids would be devastated if your DO left? Have you ever spoken to your two older kids about his behaviour towards them abs listened to how they feel living with a man who feels able to grab them and throw them around, whilst there mother watches. You may find they choose to stay with there father as things worsen (assuming he is in the picture)… and they will as they hit teenage years and your DP attempts to exert his authority and demand respect escalate

DP not DO!

Sometimes it takes the perspective of someone with some distance from a situation to help you make sense of it OP - so please do take note of the fact that from the outside perspective of those posting on this thread, this is a wholly unacceptable situation.

Fundamentally, I don't think it matters whether or not you can understand why your husband behaves this way. You believe that if you could understand why, you could make him see that it's wrong. That's a false comfort. He knows it's wrong, but he is unable or unwilling to control his temper because your son's welfare isn't his top priority. It doesn't matter what the reason is for that; it only matters that over a period of years he has shown himself up as a man who repeatedly shows aggression to your young and vulnerable son.

I also don't think it helps for you to get hung up on dictionary definitions of abuse. Your son isn't thinking to himself 'it's ok that mum's DH roughly manhandles me and is rude to me, because this dictionary definition says that abuse is hitting and kicking'. Your son is wondering why he is treated differently, why his mum isn't protecting him, and why he is picked on. And his subconscious is being shaped all the time by an environment in which one of the primary adults in his life is hostile to him, and the other facilitates it.

There's no east solution here OP. You've already pointed out that you've tried talking to your husband and tried CBT. Neither has worked; he has shown himself to be someone who will always shove your son around. And the reality is, it will almost certainly escalate. It's a shove and rudeness now; who knows what it will be when your son is 15 and a moody teen?

You have a choice to make. Your husband or your son. Only one of these is valid. You can't allow your son to be the collateral damage of your relationship with your husband. He has to be your priority. That means he can't continue to live in the current environment. Is his dad on the scene? Could he live with him instead and see you when your husband isn't around? If not, then I firmly believe the only solution here is for you to leave your husband. It will be difficult, but no more difficult that it currently is for your son to live in an abusive home.

I won’t be ltb for a few years as I am doing a vocational degree which will allow me to support myself and the children independently down the line. For me having dp as a stepfather for a few years is better than living in poverty for your whole childhood

Sorry but as you said in a previous post, your perspective IS off.

Your partner is being physically violent to your child.

That's not OK.

Your child is 11.

I really don't know how it could be clearer that you have to leave him to keep your children safe. Your children's safety comes before your degree or any worries about finances.

You are minimising by saying it's not that bad compared to your childhood. This is traumatic for your children and will be damaging them emotionally as well as physically. You need to get out.

@OhYeahyeahyeah

Report the thread if you've concerns. Don't troll hunt

Abuse is abuse.

This IS abuse.

You are closing your eyes to it because you feel it's not as bad as your childhood. How unfortunate and devastating for your children, and they have to suffer as a result.

If you didn't have those experiences in your own childhood, you might be seeing this more clearly for what it is. Just because it was "worse" for you, does not mean that this is not abuse, or that this is OK.

You need to get away from this man for the sake of your children.

OP, it was really hard to read your posts. Your poor children, especially DS, who is being abused by stepfather & unsupported by you.

It sounds as if your own childhood has affected how you understand boundaries around what's acceptable and not. You were physically hurt by your parents - and your DM hurt at least one of your DC.

Think about it like this - almost every poster here has told you it's abuse, it's wrong and your DS is being treated appallingly. And that you need to leave (or DP does). Are we all wrong?

@TarasCrazyTiara

This isn’t really abuse, some just jump right on that bandwagon for anything male related here - however it’s not really effective parenting either. This is why it’s not really wise to have dc with two different men in the same household unless he is the only real father figure of both. You parent your children together and then you have more say over your own children under the same roof. What a mess!

It certainly is abuse.

He physically grabbed a child, in anger, lifted him up and as a result the child banged his head.

He does this very four months.

In what world is that not abuse?

I work in a child protection related job, and I have to say, if I found out that this was happening to a child I was involved with, I would be straight on the phone to social services.

This is not acceptable behaviour and it IS physical abuse.

If your dh is hitting your ds at 11 l dread to think what will happen as he hits 14 or 15. You have no idea of what lies ahead with teenagers if your dh expects to be obeyed. It's a teenagers job to separate gradually from his parents so there are bound to be differences of opinion at times and to think of that man hitting your ds then is horrible. And he is not even his father.
How dare he hit a child that is not even his..a child with special needs. He is a monster.

He is completely out of order and will only get worse at ye proceed into teen years.

I agree with PPs that it would definitely come under using physical force to discipline.

However, the part you've copied from a website actually states;

‘Examples of physical abuse are:'

I.e. it's not an exhaustive list. You can't use it as a checklist to make justify staying with a man who clearly is abusing your DC on a regular basis