Dating Thread 218: The one where we're respectfully selfish

[WeWantTheFinestWines]

The Rules:

1. The first rule about the dating thread is don't talk about it with people you're dating.
2. Develop a thick skin.
3. Do not invest emotionally too soon.
4. It's all BS until it actually happens.
5. Trust your gut instinct.
6. People vanishing, lying & being generally weird is not your fault.
7. Know your worth.
8. If it's not fun, stop.
9. Loo update is mandatory.

10. No dating the thread. 11. Treat others as you'd like to be treated 12. Any relationship you have that could get ruined by having a conversation about your feelings, standards and/or expectations wasn't really stable enough to begin with 13. The things you choose to ignore/ tolerate now are the reasons you will break up in the future 14. OLD can get very time consuming. Keep doing other activities you enjoy.

Optional: Please give your irons (potential dates you are talking to) nicknames like Mr Scottish. Initials are allowed (Mr S) when you are an item

But looking - or not bothering to look - fabulous is for you, not them…

[quote Naimee87]**@StartingAgain6369* and @BelladiMamma* He's just become more and more intrusive in my life. To the point where i'm being texted on a daily or 'every other day' basis. With in my opinion 'typical school boy antics', playground 'fights,' forgotten homework, back-chat. It seems his teacher has no 'punishment' plan in place he simply calls/texts me. I've raised it with the HM last week in a very open/honest email about how uncomfortable this teacher is making me feel, and he has been quite cool about the situation. Not sure what next week has in store for us but this teacher needs to back the fuck off and figure out how to discipline his class IN school! Oh and he needs to stop taking 12yr olds out on fieldtrips or to the zoo and teach them actual subjects! I mean what's a 12yr old going to do with knowing all there is to know about fish, has had 3 tests on this 'subject' now... [/quote]
This is really off. I'd be a bit blunter with the HM and suggest that the level of contact is inappropriate. When / if you answer the emails I'd cc the HM and turn the question back to them:

• what solution are they proposing?
• what support are they putting in place to ensure that the solution is workable?

Make them accountable with deadlines and meetings. You're not just a punchbag for this teacher & I don't think he's being very professional. Don't get involved in tit for tats about the rights and wrongs of what your DS has or hasn't done; at the end of the day school is like any other institution with crappy mind numbing rules but that's life. Concentrate the discussion on what they're going to do to help resolve things. Take the emotion out and make it about practical deliverables #hereendeththeTEDtalkfromalargescaleprojectmanager

[quote SpringlikeBunk]@Stayingstrongish

I agree with @BelladiMamma
Thats what I want too - a kind of semi-domestic routine with someone with intimacy but without having merged lives completely!

I do get it’s my routine/goals as well that’s meant I can’t do this at times but that would be super to achieve ![/quote]
I've outlined this to MrBeau (who has reappeared again today phew 😁) as it was kind of what I felt let down by with MrA. MrBeau is totally on board with this and even started constructing it as well in our chats and had lots of ideas about nice things we could do for each other that left us independent but still together. I wasn't necessarily looking or expecting a full scale conversation on relationships with him but he went there first and I'm not scared of being open about what I want, even in a casual arrangement. I figure it saves everyone some time if I can be open from the off. I would rather put people off by being full strength me rather than some watered down 'oh best not mention that stuff'

@Naimee87 also if they're sexist fickwits who can't cope with talking to a single mother you could see if your DF would come with you? But make sure he understands what his role is in any meetings

Can I rejoin...? I had to after reading this post by @ibelieveinmirrorballs

*Very true - I'd go so far as to say that a large majority of people on OLD apps are using it as a distraction to avoid looking at some part of themselves that needs looking at - whether that be getting over their previous relationship, or something more intrinsic. I've certainly been guilty of it - and I think as soon as you get a new plate spinning with chats/meets/etc you suddenly have a whole new 'thing' to distract yourself with.

On many levels I feel I have sorted myself out and am getting better at picking decent men - I still think I struggle with asserting my needs and knowing when to walk away.*

I could post exactly the same thing! Especially after yet another promising date with a new guy turned into him realising he's not over his ex and perhaps not ready for a relationship 😬 I've sorted my head out - is it too much to ask that people on dating apps have done the same?!

I've got various random chats going on, but feeling a bit numb about it all really.

Also, @Blackcatnofat I think it was you who posted about the lack of emotional connection? I had a similar relationship for 10 months and in the end the passion just wasn't there for me. My marriage also suffered from a lack of emotional connection and its one aspect I won't compromise on. I'm back in the dating pool and it's a quagmire mostly (see above) but I won't settle... It's hard to walk away though, I know

Still waiting for my cancellation text from MrBeau. Hope he sends it sooner rather than later.

🤦🏻‍♀️

#sometimesIhatedating

@Misty9

Can I rejoin...? I had to after reading this post by *@ibelieveinmirrorballs*

*Very true - I'd go so far as to say that a large majority of people on OLD apps are using it as a distraction to avoid looking at some part of themselves that needs looking at - whether that be getting over their previous relationship, or something more intrinsic. I've certainly been guilty of it - and I think as soon as you get a new plate spinning with chats/meets/etc you suddenly have a whole new 'thing' to distract yourself with.

On many levels I feel I have sorted myself out and am getting better at picking decent men - I still think I struggle with asserting my needs and knowing when to walk away.*

I could post exactly the same thing! Especially after yet another promising date with a new guy turned into him realising he's not over his ex and perhaps not ready for a relationship 😬 I've sorted my head out - is it too much to ask that people on dating apps have done the same?!

I've got various random chats going on, but feeling a bit numb about it all really.

Also, @Blackcatnofat I think it was you who posted about the lack of emotional connection? I had a similar relationship for 10 months and in the end the passion just wasn't there for me. My marriage also suffered from a lack of emotional connection and its one aspect I won't compromise on. I'm back in the dating pool and it's a quagmire mostly (see above) but I won't settle... It's hard to walk away though, I know

You never left 😁

I fully plan to haunt this thread even when I'm in a smug couple posting insta ready travel shots hashtag Love this one! So blessed!

I'll come here and let you all know how annoying it is when I go 2 hours without a message or they leave the loo 🚽 seat up or forget to pick up the milk 🥛

I'm finding the conversation around people dealing with their own stuff before being ready to date really interesting.

It's a topic that makes me really nervous. I spent years on "inner work", counselling, freedom courses (to recognise abuse), rebuilding a network, my own research etc. I thought I was absolutely ready to get back out there but now I'm apparently possibly dating someone it feels like it's test time rather than learning the theory. Yet I can't see how else I could progress without actually doing it.

Small example from today. He sent me a "Goodnight sweetheart" last night, and this morning I sent a random life thing. He sent an enthusiastic, but short reply. I sent a longer message back and got a similar, enthusiastic but short message. And I shut down.

I'm working through it in my head. I KNOW he has birthday plans this evening, and we are in a good place because of yesterday. I'm self soothing with it doesn't mean he's deciding he doesn't like me, that I did something wrong, etc. It doesn't mean he secretly has a partner that he snuck out on or that he's running away. But I'm still having to address all these thoughts. All I can do is wait until he's less busy and he's up for proper chit chat. It just feels like hard work.

I know he also has work to do still, which also makes me nervous. Though he seems as self aware as me. Part of your conversation yesterday (as I was quizzing him on his photographic memory because as someone with aphantasia I find it fascinating!) was that if he goes quiet it's because he's replaying a video in his head of something potentially hurtful. I said OK, so if that happens, what should I do? He seemed a bit taken aback but thought about it and said if he looks sad, then he needs a hug, but if he looks angry then he needs space. So I said OK, so while I'm learning which of those it is, I'll just make a gesture like this open arms motion and if you can indicate which it is?

He again, looked taken aback and said "but if I'm angry and you need a hug, then I can do that first then process" and I said "no, if you need to process first then I can wait for a hug once you're ready".

His head then looked like it imploded and he mumbled something about "trying to imagine a relationship where his needs are prioritised too", then we both left the subject and joked around again 🤪

Super personal details but... I don't know. It's either a train wreck incoming, too much too soon and / or he's a very clever emotional abuser. Or it's exactly what he both need at this point in time to restore a bit of faith in humans.

Sorry. I think I just needed to get some of that out of my head.

*we not he!

@BelladiMamma any reason to think he’ll flake other than previous experience with others, now he’s resumed contact today?

@Misty9 this is what happens to me a lot - talking to prospective irons about emotional availability only for them to say oh shit, I don’t think I am ready! 🙄🙄🙄

Still no contact from my iron since Friday and I’m happy to leave things for a day or so - interestingly heard from someone I was chatting to a few months ago today who has proposed a FWB arrangement… he lives in Amsterdam at the moment but is extremely hot so this is tempting - and is making me think about the fascinating topic of how much less needy I feel with one specific person if there are other options - therefore it’s not the individual person I should be putting on a pedestal in the first place. Maybe I have needs I shouldn’t place all on one person..? Lots to ponder.

@InABetterPlaceNow crikey - these sound like very intense conversations to be having with someone so early on - it’s like you’re analysing each other’s patterns without letting them just play out in real time. The difficulty with this is that it seems like you’re both trying to create an instruction manual for each other rather than just letting things breathe and having fun and letting your compatibility or otherwise happen through experience. You might not be compatible in lots of ways, or you might be - but I doubt you’ll understand that about each other by relaying anecdotes. For a start his version of himself is not necessarily going to be how you experience him. These things are so hard as an over thinker! I totally get the drive to rake over these details as someone else also out of an abusive marriage (and having spent several years voluntarily single as a result).

As an aside, I don’t like the mention of him saying he goes quiet if he’s replaying a video of something potentially hurtful. It’s like he’s preparing you for the silent treatment and you second guessing what you’ve done wrong.

[quote ibelieveinmirrorballs]@InABetterPlaceNow crikey - these sound like very intense conversations to be having with someone so early on - it’s like you’re analysing each other’s patterns without letting them just play out in real time. The difficulty with this is that it seems like you’re both trying to create an instruction manual for each other rather than just letting things breathe and having fun and letting your compatibility or otherwise happen through experience. You might not be compatible in lots of ways, or you might be - but I doubt you’ll understand that about each other by relaying anecdotes. For a start his version of himself is not necessarily going to be how you experience him. These things are so hard as an over thinker! I totally get the drive to rake over these details as someone else also out of an abusive marriage (and having spent several years voluntarily single as a result).

As an aside, I don’t like the mention of him saying he goes quiet if he’s replaying a video of something potentially hurtful. It’s like he’s preparing you for the silent treatment and you second guessing what you’ve done wrong.[/quote]
Thank you! I really appreciate that and agreed, perhaps too much too soon. A lot of points to take onboard (not overthink!). I'm glad I put it out there as sounds like it's more the train wreck going on

@Misty9 you're back!! I missed you! 

Thanks @BelladiMamma for the school advice. Thing we struggle with is my parents german isn't great and their swiss-german isn't either. So although they can join the meetings they often can't voice their concerns. But in the meeting we had the teacher told everyone that instead of going to a family therapist meeting i went 'shopping'!! I was gobsmacked! What the fuck does that have to do with him. I kept all texts/calls/whatsapps he has sent me. Just waay over the top. He's incompetent and i'm not. Crazy-Truck antics aside i like to think i have my sh*t pretty much together. But as a default 'single-parent' families are to blame when kids are troublesome! Yes my DS can be a right little demon sometimes but he is SO cool and funny and loved and helpful and clever! Just this teacher is finding it difficult to engage him in school subjects because he's a useless waste of space that should do-one! Haha!

[quote ibelieveinmirrorballs]@BelladiMamma any reason to think he’ll flake other than previous experience with others, now he’s resumed contact today?

@Misty9 this is what happens to me a lot - talking to prospective irons about emotional availability only for them to say oh shit, I don’t think I am ready! 🙄🙄🙄

Still no contact from my iron since Friday and I’m happy to leave things for a day or so - interestingly heard from someone I was chatting to a few months ago today who has proposed a FWB arrangement… he lives in Amsterdam at the moment but is extremely hot so this is tempting - and is making me think about the fascinating topic of how much less needy I feel with one specific person if there are other options - therefore it’s not the individual person I should be putting on a pedestal in the first place. Maybe I have needs I shouldn’t place all on one person..? Lots to ponder.[/quote]
He's just tailed off a little in comms since we arranged our date. Fair enough he is working today and he's had life admin to get on top of. But past experience makes me wary of comms tailing off like that. Plus I can see he's been back on the app 😞 but that's my own stupid fault for looking 🤣 and I've got 2-3 chats still rumbling along including two guys who've asked for dates this week. So I have back up plans.

[quote Naimee87]@Misty9 you're back!! I missed you! 

Thanks *@BelladiMamma for the school advice. Thing we struggle with is my parents german isn't great and their swiss-german isn't either. So although they can join the meetings they often can't voice their concerns. But in the meeting we had the teacher told everyone that instead of going to a family therapist meeting i went 'shopping'!! I was gobsmacked! What the fuck does that have to do with him. I kept all texts/calls/whatsapps he has sent me. Just waay over the top. He's incompetent and i'm not. Crazy-Truck antics aside i like to think i have my sht pretty much together. But as a default 'single-parent' families are to blame when kids are troublesome! Yes my DS can be a right little demon sometimes but he is SO cool and funny and loved and helpful and clever! Just this teacher is finding it difficult to engage him in school subjects because he's a useless waste of space that should do-one! Haha! [/quote]
Is start cc'ing all the shit to the HM after you've had a 'hey I'm relaxed but is this normal for teachers at the school?'

Swiss German is a language I've also managed to avoid. But well done to you for picking it up!!

@Naimee87 sorry not sure what happened to that message

'I'd start cc'ing ... after you've had a relaxed conversation ...'

Hi all,

Feeling much better now. I'm still in a lot of pain, but not feeling so upset.

Still not heard from Mr Gambit at all. I think he's a bit upset because I didn't reply straightaway to something he sent me on Monday. I can't be sure of that though, so it's just me guessing ❤️

@Naimee87

I'm childfree by choice so try to avoid weighing in on chats about children as I'd not have any experience, but agree that teacher sounds like a controlling sexist knob/bully no matter what the culture or expectations? How long is your boy in that school for, assume there's no option to switch somewhere else?

@BelladiMamma yep gotta love the language barrier! Anyway thanks for your advice luckily my neighbour (not one i dated) is helping a lot. He's got some good advice and i feel like i've good support! As for MrBeau surely you're just 'on' for tomorrow? But the whole fizzling out in comms is so hard to navigate. Just sends your head into over-drive and makes you question everything. But he seem's keen so fingers crossed!

@OnwardsEverStridingOnwards don't bring yourself down because MrGambits gone quiet. Doesn't at all sound like you've done anything wrong at all.

@InABetterPlaceNow I personally think this chat sounds a bit intense. How long have you known this guy? I don't think it's the signs of an abuser but more too much too soon and risking analysing the hell out of minute details. Is there any chance you can sit on your hands a bit and let him come to you. Or keep the chat more lighthearted, fun and flirty.

[quote Eesha]@InABetterPlaceNow I personally think this chat sounds a bit intense. How long have you known this guy? I don't think it's the signs of an abuser but more too much too soon and risking analysing the hell out of minute details. Is there any chance you can sit on your hands a bit and let him come to you. Or keep the chat more lighthearted, fun and flirty.[/quote]
Thank you. Yup feeling a bit about posting it. To put into context, the chat took less than a few minutes in a 4 hour meet and was a short dive into some very high level details we've already shared re history. We both quickly moved on to lighter subjects, and the vast majority of the meeting was silliness and getting to know you.

I find it tricky as if things get physical there's a chance for my own PTSD to kick in. So it's important for me to state what might happen, how I would want that to be handled, and to make it clear it's my own triggers happening rather than something the other person did wrong. We actually had that conversation a week or so ago so it felt like that convo was a return to that. Feel like even more of a numpty admitting that.

I don't know how I'd progress to a physical relationship without stating those things up front and seeing the reaction. I'm much more comfortable knowing I've put that out there (so that if it happens the other person knows what to do) and it actually makes it much less likely to happen because the reaction to it is telling.

Maybe im just too broken to date (im not sure how to fix it though?)

@SpringlikeBunk thanks for your post! This is the thing he is only there till summer... then changes schools completely. So why they are kicking up a fuss now i really don't know. The HM is cool i genuinely get a good vibe from him. But its just feeling like the teacher has a vendetta against me and my DS and isn't prepared to let it go. My DS seem's to be under a microscope all the time, it's so frustrating.

I echo @Eesha with the intense chat early on, definitely a sure fire way, welll in my experience that is, of making them run for the hills! Text is so open to interpretation best to keep important or personal topics for when you're physically together. Body language is also soooo important!

@InABetterPlaceNow

You're not a numpty, you're just a normal human being on a learning journey!

I guess the key thing with being worried about abuse is knowing you have the boundaries and can walk if it's not working for you (regardless of what anyone else says).

You don't "have to" get to a certain number of dates or worry about "putting the guy off", realistically most dating situations fizzle out anyway.

even if the guy is a 6'4 doctor who saves babies lives and your mum loves him, you should be able to walk if you think he's emotionally off.

I'm definitely an overthinker and overanalyser (spend more time analysing the dates than contacting them ).

I do agree if you just keep seeing people FTF you learn more about them through interaction rather than "talking" about things?

@ibelieveinmirrorballs I just wish I hadn't shagged them before finding this out... 😬 Although, with this latest guy I don't think it would have come out until we had sex as that was the issue for him (feeling like he was cheating despite having been separated for 3yrs).

As for dealing with your own shit before dating, I was definitely guilty of doing that so shouldn't complain really. I'm just a bit fed up of seemingly occupying the role of 'test f%ck' for these guys. Sorry if that's a bit coarse... I'm starting to wonder if one can ever really get over a long marriage ending. I still get sad and mine was medium length. I miss my kids too

@InABetterPlaceNow I would be open with anxieties if I knew the relationship was going in that direction for sure. I don't think people are too broken but it depends whether you are in the right mindset to want a healthy relationship with someone.