Have i just been an idiot and destroyed things?

[abersterol]

A year ago today I met the man I am currently with. He’s 39, I was 35 last week. When we met I was very clear I wanted to settle down and have a family. He said the same. He has a job that means he works 7am to usually half 8 (this is relevant I think).

In short, we’ve had brief sex twice, both times for about two minutes and then he stops. We’ve had other intimacy, he goes down on me and I on him, he’s hard when we kiss and he’s into cuddling and is quite affectionate that way. I’ve asked him why he’s reluctant to have proper full sex (we’ve done it twice and the last time was in may). I’ve asked him literally everything I could think of, gone through all the possible anxieties, worries or concerns he may have from sti to performance and everything in between. I’ve sat and held his hand and said whatever the issue is I’m here to work through it with him. I’ve also asked outright if he just doesn’t like sex. His answer is always the same: he wants sex, he wants that with me, he doesn’t have a reason why we haven’t developed that side to the relationship and he can’t promise me when we will do it but he knows he wants to at some point. So what happens is I leave it, a week or two, then obviously we do other things and he ejaculates with a blow job and things carry on, but I start feeling upset about the fact there’s no progress with sex and no answer as to why we are no doing it. He recently told me the last time he did have sex was 7 years ago. He’s not had a relationship for a long time and the longest has been much shorter than ours at a few weeks/months. I wondered if he was worried about performance but I’ve asked sensitively about that too and he says not.

That’s issue one.

Issue two is that since June I’ve been trying to book a short break from Saturday to Monday, to go away for a long weekend together. He’s not keen on taking time off/started a new job recently so said he doesn’t know if he can etc. I’ve said it’s just one day of annual leave. He’s said he can’t go abroad or go far as he just doesn’t want to do that right now with work. I’m not exactly sure why as his colleagues go away and they’re in the same role but he seems to find it all stressful. Eventually he agreed to ask to take a Monday off in October and so I booked somewhere an hour away, just for a change of scenery. It turns out he didn’t ask work/couldn’t take it off in the end. He’s not suggested another weekend or even said let’s just have a night away on a Saturday instead which I would have thought was a compromise. I know this is a bit of a first world problem and if the relationship is good then maybe I should stop complaining about something like this, but I guess it had upset me he didn’t want to find any extra time to share together. Again with this I was very patient, he said he did want to go away but didn’t know when etc etc. So I emailed him some dates and hotels and asked which he liked. He said he liked one of them and so I said I would provisionally book. Then he makes zero steps to organise it with his work or suggest an alternative. It makes me feel a bit messed around.

All this came to a head a few nights ago. We’d had a nice meal and come home and were watching a film, kissing etc. I suggested sex and he just stopped and shook his head. I asked why and he shook his head and didn’t answer. I got really upset. Said we’d had a nice night, if you want sex like you’ve said then why aren’t you doing that… it escalated.

I said it wasn’t normal to say you want sex and then not do it. I said he was weird for not wanting to go away together and do something nice and that most normal people in an adult relationship would appreciate me taking time to fit in with them and find somewhere nice to go for a two night break once in a year. I said he was selfish for not listening to me or compromising, said he was making me miserable and why couldn’t he at least understand that as a couple he should be honest and if he wants us to be together he needs to understand that you have to compromise. I said it was obvious why he had never had a relationship before. I said he was a bastard for playing games (no idea if he is but it felt that way). I asked him if he just wanted to break up because I couldn’t understand why he would treat me this way. I also raised the fact that in summer he would only see me briefly on a Sunday night for a few weeks and wouldn’t go for a meal or do anything as he had an interview coming up. It was a huge interview to be fair to him but I found it all a bit odd and extreme and said it was hurtful at the time.

He got upset and then defensive, said he does compromise to be with me because he spends all his free time with me outside work …that is mostly true he does but I said that’s not compromising, that’s just having the relationship. He said he would usually work later than he does it it wasn’t for me, so therefore it was a compromise

It ended with him saying I clearly thought he was inadequate and therefore he couldn’t meet my needs and I had been horrible to him and that changed how he felt now.

We had some breathing space and reconvened when calmed down but even then he was reluctant to actually talk about things rationally. He didn’t say much and I still have no idea when he wants sex other than he told me that the last two weeks he was too tired after work. He didn’t explain the last 11 months though.

Aside from these things we have had a lovely relationship. I do love him. He’s said the same to me. We’ve had some lovely times and I honestly thought he was the person I would be with.

Have I ruined it this by flying off the handle and saying horrible things in anger? I feel terrible and he is saying he questions the whole relationship after how I snapped. I am conflicted because I know I have been so patient and loving and kind in the past about these things. I’ve told him i support him and there’s no pressure and I’ve generally tried to be lighthearted about trips away and sex but obviously have mentioned it intermittently as time has gone on. He’s a nice person but his reaction to my outburst seems to be to ignore why it happened and to have a reason to withdraw further rather than sitting down together and having a chat about how we can work on things. Have i messed this all up? I also feel desperately sad at the thought of starting again at this age. It scares me. I probably sound pathetic here but IRL I have a good job and I’m usually quite together and positive :(

@HyggeTygge

Sorry OP I hope this doesn't sound harsh, but the other day I had a conversation with my 6yo about why we couldn't go to the cinema. I explained that Daddy had an important meeting and I was feeling poorly (sneezing and snotty) and we'd have to go another time. "But why can't we go? I really want to go" Because I'm sick, and I can't risk spreading sickness to other people, and Daddy can't reschedule his meeting because a lot of other people have booked this time in and can't change it. "But why can't we go? I really really really want to!"

This sounds a little like you - you seem convinced that things were somehow fine, you'd be having babies despite never having sex (?!), you'd be enjoying the company of a man who is on your wavelength and in love with you, despite a lot of what he says being a proven lie (that he wants xyz but then refuses to do it), that you'd spend time together despite him refusing to commit to even one day together.

You seem articulate and perceptive in many ways yet you can't seem to click that these things are very very wrong and cannot - CANNOT - be conducive to a relationship.

Periodic companionship, perhaps. If that is what you want for the rest of your life then maybe you could've spent a few years never daring to bring it up or ask basic questions in case you spoilt the periodic companionship, but you have said that is not what you want from life.

You're not compatible.

@HyggeTygge

You're right. I agree. But, some women are so afraid that they'll never get the marriage and children. OP is afraid. The fantasy they'd created in their minds in order to carry on with charade relationship for much longer than needed.

@Musttryharder2021 that’s exactly what I did.

Aww shit OP i didn't want to add to your feeling low. Perhaps this is something you have to go through, horrible as it is, before you can get through to the other side. You have done, and are doing, everything you can and more - therapy! Getting away! ditching this confusing mixed-message guy who is, at heart, an arse.
Wish I could buy you a massive pizza and a cocktail with an umbrella in it.

One of my friends has wasted years - all of her 30s practically - with clearly incompatible guys - one was a textbook emotionally abusing gaslighter, one was so passive on absolutely everything he never did anything. You WANT it to work for them while knowing a decent relationship just doesn't start out like this.

Thanks @HyggeTygge I know it’s better being away from him. Somewhere in me I know that. The unknown feels so so so scary. Even looking at profiles (not talking to anyone for a while!), they all look so unfamiliar and so far away from who and what I want. I know that’s going to be the case in some respect because i don’t know them, but I cannot envisage being close with someone and feeling truly loved. That scares me as I’ve always thought that could be possible in the past. That hope has totally and entirely gone.

OP I’ve been you.

There’s a few things that strike me: one that you were like this as a teenager. It’s very easy to fall into a pattern of just blaming yourself for everything and castigating yourself even if you don’t believe it. You are not stupid, I can see that- so next time you hear yourself saying something ludicrous like blaming yourself for something that couldn’t possibly be your fault, maybe just say NO. That’s not true. Stop actively throwing yourself to the bottom of the pile on purpose. It’s masochistic.

Also with the ‘nobody will ever want me’ I have 110% been there. The only thing that made me feel better about it was to accept that that might be the case but I could choose how I dealt with it. I said fuck it, I didn’t want to be alone but I couldn’t force Prince Charming to come along and rescue me so I had to do nice things for me and live my life for me and if someone came along then great but for that period of time I wasn’t going to look for it. I spent a year just pleasing myself and taking jobs I wouldn’t have otherwise taken and learning what was important to me without defaulting to ‘marriage and babies’ because actually that’s not the be all and end all, the divorce rate would be the evidence of that.

I do think that it’s a hard lesson to learn that active low self esteem is a coping mechanism because if you can always say ‘see I don’t get anywhere and don’t deserve anything because I’m so awful’ it gives you a reason for why you don’t have what you want. Whereas if you are actually an ok person and things haven’t gone your way you have to accept that life isn’t fair or controllable and that’s scary. Xx

@Iwouldlikesomecake that has dealt resonated with me. I could tell this morning when I spent an hour in floods of tears not eating etc that actually part of this was on me. It is scary and it isn’t fair and that’s fucking hard to accept. I feel like I slowly make a tiny bit of progress then it all falls apart again.

How did you do it? Do you ever meet anyone in the end? I have become very negative in my thinking and it’s now all consuming. There was a time when I wasn’t like this.

@Abersterol

You need to come terms/ to the acceptance that we all may not necessarily meet someone (other than 'settling') it's a fact (a taboo one but nonetheless a fact). The universe doesn't always deliver in every area of life. Also, meeting a partner isn't a meritocracy exercise - such as 'I work really hard at finding a partner on OLD therefore I must be given one'. The apps have extremely low success rates in terms of long lasting relationships... they are literally designed to keep us on there for as long as possible. It's luck of the draw...

This is something I've come across in another thread, and I think it is very insightful: "For people who know they want children, waiting for perfect match only works until a certain age. Then you either have kids with someone Ok enough, or on your own.
You may or may not stay together ‘forever’ but neither are the people who married their ‘Ones’. But at least you will have a child."

@Abersterol yes I actually did! And we ‘got together’ while I was crazy busy and had no time or inclination for bullshit. I said to him, if I get involved with someone there has to be a chance it will be something proper and I’m not interested in wasting time- I was working two jobs and had no time for dicking about.

Married him three years later.

But I would not have been in the position to do that if I had not gone into it with the feeling that everything didn’t hinge on the success of ‘this’ relationship. I was simply too busy to spend hours agonising and overthinking things. And I did truly believe that my life was good on my own. He had to make it better- not ‘complete me’ in some way.

To get to that point there’s an element of fake it until you make it. When I was feeling like you were feeling I had to write down one nice thing about the day every day so I didn’t feel it was a total write off. I had to give myself a few stern talkings to! And do a lot of taking myself out for cake and coffee and going to stuff on my own etc. It’s hard and you have to take it one day at a time but once you realise you can live with yourself you’re much better placed to be able to live with someone else.

I have become very negative in my thinking and it’s now all consuming
Op. I say this with kindness.
Step away from the dating apps. Why would you even contemplate them at this stage?
Stop focussing on whether or not you will meet someone and pleading to know how long it will take.
Stop waiting for Prince Charming to rescue you and start rescuing yourself.
You say it's clear he thinks this about you and it's clear he thinks that about you, but what you've really established is that it was almost impossible to understand what he was thinking at all. So you are projecting these thoughts onto him.
There are people, and he sounds like one of them who are rarely troubled by deep thoughts. They react to what is immediately front of them. He is most likely only thinking about himself and that is it. He's not capable of more. Which is one of the reasons why you dumped him. His text message to you where he asked hi how are you, was a great example of this. He is simply not capable of being touched by this certainly not in the way you are. So stop thinking about what you think he thought. Stop trying to work him out - because that is so similar to the process where you kept trying to work him out so that you could fix him and make things better for him.

Start being grateful that you had the wit to challenge him and reveal that he was unable to cope with real life or intimacy of any kind, without resorting to bluffing and lying and deferring.

When I read that all you could see ahead was "nothingness". I am sorry but I wanted to shout WAKE UP and stop wallowing in it. I am sorry if this sounds unkind, it is not meant to be.

Don't just sit there in a heap getting more and more depressed.
Distract yourself. go for a walk on the beach with a comedy show in your ears. Watch a funny film on Netflix. Read a very compelling cliff hanger of a book. Shop for and cook something fantastic for yourself this evening - even if you don't eat it in the end. Playing up beat music.

Give your head a break from thinking about this 24/7, even if its just for half an hour. Just try. Make the attempt. Doesn't matter if it fails, but really try and commit to trying again tomorrow.
This experience has clearly been hurtful, but you have so much to be grateful for. You've got rid of this selfish robot. You are still only 35. You have a good job, your own income and before he came along you had a life that was worth it.
One only has to read some of the threads on here where people are afraid to leave abusive partners, have no means of support, or are stuck in awful situations or with very very poor health or toxic cruel relatives.
You are free of all of these unfixable problems, so make a conscious effort to stop fixating on how damaging this relationship was and coming up with new ways to torture yourself.. this is a hangover of your previous self blame for not 100 per cent accepting his terms and conditions and finding your voice. It's exactly the same process.
So give yourself a shake.

I also totally agree with the ‘not a meritocracy’ thing. We haven’t got kids, not for the want of trying, and utter twats get married and have kids every day so it just shows that hard work and dedication doesn’t always get you what you want. Being a nice person doesn’t mean you will get the happy ever after. Some of the nicest people I know have lost children, husbands, had many many miscarriages… it’s just life and we can’t control everything xx

I'm glad you are in therapy, you need some support to understand why you settled for this, and yo move forward.

Honestly, wanting a partner who will fuck you once in a while, and who will plan special time with you, is a very low bar. Which he cannot meet, for reasons you may never know.

When you have a partner who is a friend and a lover you will be glad you gave yourself a fighting chance of happiness.

Thanks for all the replies. Finding tonight really hard for some reason. Still at the beach house and just thinking how nice it would have been if he was here with me. I know it’s for the best but I’ve not slept and feeling a bit weak today. Probably as I’ve not been working either.

Trust the process.

Everything you're feeling right now is part of the break up grief cycle. Take comfort that almost everyone on the planet has been through this and come out the other side. You doubt, despair, feel sad, ruminate, get angry, feel better, then have doubts again etc. Just allow yourself to feel all these feelings but know that the only way forward is WITHOUT him.

Breakups suck. I've been there, where you just feel you'll never meet anyone, all the dating profiles look scary and hopeless, and the thought of starting all that again is terrifying. But that's because you're still grieving. Now is not the time to even contemplate dating again. Focus on one day at a time, doing one productive thing every day that will make you happy. Allow yourself to heal before you look at dating again, as atm it will feel too big a mountain to climb.

You are only 35. There is every chance that with the right man things will progress a lot quicker than in your 20s. Do not despair. I would look to just going out and about a bit more when back from beach house - go to cafes more to read/work, join some new classes/groups etc - stuff to keep yourself busy. And surround yourself with people who care about you - that will help heal the inadequacy you're feeling because of him.

Slowly you will come back to life. The flowers will have colour again, and you will smell hope in the air. That is what awaits on the other side. Break ups suck, even when we know they're right the thing to do. It's ok to mourn the loss of hopes, dreams etc. It means you cared enough about those things, and that's good. Don't give up on it. It will just teach you to be more cautious and more assertive with future dates.

Like a pp said - the best place to approach relationships is from where you are happy with your life and busy (you can be happy and a bit lonely too btw, loneliness isn't a disease and happiness doesn't mean it's 24/7 - just means by and large you're ok with life).

Watch some inspiring films - with kick ass heroines. It's always good to remember how powerful and amazing women can be.

Also I found this book quite funny to read when i once had a terrible break up to get over

www.amazon.co.uk/Its-Called-Break-Up-Because-Broken/dp/0007225180?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

It's a bit cliche but very funny, and comforting to remind myself that my breakup wasn't some glitch in the matrix. Bad relationships happen to everyone so sometimes you just have to shrug it off, and move on.

I think no one has replied all evening to your 'finding tonight hard for some reason' post is because so many very wise people are spending so much time giving you such brilliant advice and insights - for which you duly give them a brief thanks before subsiding back into the Slough of Despond with only the rarest hint that you are taking any of the wisdom on board.

We all know what the 'some reason'.

You wasted a year on an ocean-going fraudster. Just like those poor women who end up handing over wads of cash to internet Romeos or blokes who marry them for a passport and are never seen again. He didn't want your money or a visa, it's true, but he deceived you just the same. He wasn't what you thought he was and now you feel emotionally crushed and your pride has also been hurt.

That's a tough lesson but he really isn't worth a dime of your time. Be angry again, not sad. I bet you were magnificent when you went for him in that row. You regret it so much but actually it was your finest moment in this whole situationship and I only wish you could take huge pride in it: and surge back now having rediscovered your mojo.

Stop moping around the beach house because it's doing nothing for your spirits and Heathcliff is not going to appear on the quay in a cableknit Guernsey. Plunge back into real life and crack on with real living.

@todaysdilemma that was a truly fabulous post

@abersterol I have been following your posts about this man. I really feel for you and can sympathise so much with how you are feeling. I was with someone with autistic traits (he believes he has ASD too) and can reconcile with your conflicts. I too was so patient, kind, understanding and accepting. But after about 8 months I suddenly felt absolute rage one day after some cumulative actions he was oblivious too but that I and most others would consider very thoughtless and inconsiderate. I am so not an angry volatile person. I never had the discussion with him just strategically attempted to put the ball in his court about pursing the relationship further. It ceased pretty much immediately. I still miss him and feel so sad about it many months later. But objectively I know he could not meet my needs. I also know that he’s never had a long term relationship (at almost 50) and it’s very likely every relationship he has will end the same. I’m not even sure he understands what the issues are. It’s actually very sad as he is quite a lonely soul but I am not surprised any relationship (friends, family, colleagues, lovers) fails having witnessed much of the dysfunctional behaviour. I suspect your chap is feeling sad, conflicted etc. but probably cannot understand your viewpoint at all. You did all you could. You would never have been happy and content in the long term. Take time out, work on your therapy and restore your sense of worth.

@todaysdilemma thank you so much for your post, it helped massively yesterday when I was sliding into a horrible hole. I can’t imagine feeling happy again and that’s a scary thought. I ordered that book, thank you.

@friskybivalves I do take on board what is posted and I read all posts carefully. Just because I come back with more anxiety or worry does not mean I am disregarding what is said. I overthink everything and this is very hard for me. The thread has been a huge lifeboat for me going through this and there are moments when I suddenly question things all over again and it helps to be able to talk about it here. Please don’t interpret my further posting as disregard for what has already been said.

I agree about the anger. I think on some level I wonder if he did mean the things he said but couldn’t get to the point of doing them. But then I wanted to support him with that and he didn’t want to engage so I couldn’t have done much.

We were supposed to be going on a long walk today. It feels hard and shit and lonely. I still can’t believe we could have been so close and so happy in each other’s company and he can go from that to cutting me off because I raised something so fundamental to a successful relationship. I don’t think I will ever be able to get my head around that really.

Thanks @JadedSoJaded it tears me up a lot because I was so happy with him. I just wanted us to be a couple, a proper couple, who grew and developed. It was always like we were in the first stages of a relationship, and almost a teenage one at that. The blanket cutting me off since I said what I said has thrown me. I wanted to talk, to move forwards, to resolve things. I wish I had paid more attention to the fact he hadn’t had a relationship before and that he still wasn’t ‘quite ready’ to settle down. They were huge signs the man was not wanting the things he repeatedly told me he wanted. Ugh I feel queasy and sad and lonely today.

There is a part of me that wants to give up on finding someone and I wish that would take over completely so I could genuinely be ok with that. I wonder if that will happen soon. I am exhausted with it all.

Also @JadedSoJaded I’m so sorry you have gone through something similar it’s shit xx

@abersterol

Thanks *@JadedSoJaded* it tears me up a lot because I was so happy with him. I just wanted us to be a couple, a proper couple, who grew and developed. It was always like we were in the first stages of a relationship, and almost a teenage one at that. The blanket cutting me off since I said what I said has thrown me. I wanted to talk, to move forwards, to resolve things. I wish I had paid more attention to the fact he hadn’t had a relationship before and that he still wasn’t ‘quite ready’ to settle down. They were huge signs the man was not wanting the things he repeatedly told me he wanted. Ugh I feel queasy and sad and lonely today.

There is a part of me that wants to give up on finding someone and I wish that would take over completely so I could genuinely be ok with that. I wonder if that will happen soon. I am exhausted with it all.

You weren't so happy with him, read your initial thread. You got it into your head (probably being 35), that this will be 'your happy ever-after'). You got overly invested (again, probably because of your age and desire to marry and have children). And now you're distraught of having to go back on the apps and do the rinse and repeat cycle all over again.

There's plenty of people out there, I guess it depends how long it takes you... Some women do get very desperate and marry the next one in line that wants them as they're approaching late 30s and time is running out...be careful you don't end up one of them before you clear your head.

Hey xx

Just a thought..

I think that sexual problems are difficult to own. Imagine being prohibitively small or having ed. It would be much easier to blame that on something else, like tiredness or being busy. In today's dysfunctional world I suspect many men are avoiding low sex drive and sexual problems and simply swerving ever discussing them. I think that answers why he simply cut you off. If going forward with you and working through the problem could result in the truth being out, no wonder he has withdrawn.

The secret is to get thro these early days and heal, then get back out there having learned the hard way to really ask in the early days, do I see any problems here? And see whether they can be resolved. You got a no and another no in this case xxx

You need to give yourself time away from any relationships for a while.

Heal from this one and then learn from it. Action, actions, actions. Words are easy. Actions will show you the true person. It should not be this hard, especially at the start of a relationship. The red flags were there right from the start, you chose not to acknowledge them as you wanted so much to think this was the one. He was never going to be the one and given time you will look back and wonder why you wasted so much of your time trying to fix him or make him fit a role he couldn't/wouldn't ever fill.

It's not wasted though unless you don't learn from it. The best thing you can learn from this is not waste time with the next relationship if it is not right. Be totally honest with yourself.

Your first post is the truest. Since then you have backtracked and doubted yourself. You saw that it wasn't right but are still thinking you could still make a go of it.

Once you accept he wasn't right you'll moved forward quicker. And once you accept he wasn't right I guarantee you won't waste your time thinking it would be better at the beach house with him you'll be thinking thank fuck I'm not with that bloke.

Everyone of us here have made mistakes, been with the wrong person, so you are not the only one. At some point you have to take responsibility for carrying on with something that was not fulfilling. Then forgive yourself. Then look forward to the next adventure. Plan something that doesn't focus on finding someone to fill your life. Fill your own life with things you enjoy. Find yourself. Plan a big trip somewhere you've always wanted to go, or do a course you've never had time to do, take up a new hobby. Fill your time and whether or not it takes a bit more time to find someone more compatible with you will be having positive experiences.

Thanks @minmooch I know I need to stop going over it all. I just can’t understand how someone could be saying all the right things and then when it comes down to it, he’s happy to let me go. Probably hasn’t thought twice about it since.

Can’t imagine feeling open to a relationship again. This has really confused me and made me second guess myself a lot. He’s literally just snapped me from his life. Can’t exactly have been the love of his life as claimed.

You’re probably right. But he was not the love of your life so it doesn’t matter, does it? Imagine how much worse it would have been if he truly honestly did think you were the love of his life and you were having to hurt him by breaking up with him!

This is better all round. Just chalk it up to experience.