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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Have i just been an idiot and destroyed things?

803 replies

abersterol · 05/10/2021 16:00

A year ago today I met the man I am currently with. He’s 39, I was 35 last week. When we met I was very clear I wanted to settle down and have a family. He said the same. He has a job that means he works 7am to usually half 8 (this is relevant I think).

In short, we’ve had brief sex twice, both times for about two minutes and then he stops. We’ve had other intimacy, he goes down on me and I on him, he’s hard when we kiss and he’s into cuddling and is quite affectionate that way. I’ve asked him why he’s reluctant to have proper full sex (we’ve done it twice and the last time was in may). I’ve asked him literally everything I could think of, gone through all the possible anxieties, worries or concerns he may have from sti to performance and everything in between. I’ve sat and held his hand and said whatever the issue is I’m here to work through it with him. I’ve also asked outright if he just doesn’t like sex. His answer is always the same: he wants sex, he wants that with me, he doesn’t have a reason why we haven’t developed that side to the relationship and he can’t promise me when we will do it but he knows he wants to at some point. So what happens is I leave it, a week or two, then obviously we do other things and he ejaculates with a blow job and things carry on, but I start feeling upset about the fact there’s no progress with sex and no answer as to why we are no doing it. He recently told me the last time he did have sex was 7 years ago. He’s not had a relationship for a long time and the longest has been much shorter than ours at a few weeks/months. I wondered if he was worried about performance but I’ve asked sensitively about that too and he says not.

That’s issue one.

Issue two is that since June I’ve been trying to book a short break from Saturday to Monday, to go away for a long weekend together. He’s not keen on taking time off/started a new job recently so said he doesn’t know if he can etc. I’ve said it’s just one day of annual leave. He’s said he can’t go abroad or go far as he just doesn’t want to do that right now with work. I’m not exactly sure why as his colleagues go away and they’re in the same role but he seems to find it all stressful. Eventually he agreed to ask to take a Monday off in October and so I booked somewhere an hour away, just for a change of scenery. It turns out he didn’t ask work/couldn’t take it off in the end. He’s not suggested another weekend or even said let’s just have a night away on a Saturday instead which I would have thought was a compromise. I know this is a bit of a first world problem and if the relationship is good then maybe I should stop complaining about something like this, but I guess it had upset me he didn’t want to find any extra time to share together. Again with this I was very patient, he said he did want to go away but didn’t know when etc etc. So I emailed him some dates and hotels and asked which he liked. He said he liked one of them and so I said I would provisionally book. Then he makes zero steps to organise it with his work or suggest an alternative. It makes me feel a bit messed around.

All this came to a head a few nights ago. We’d had a nice meal and come home and were watching a film, kissing etc. I suggested sex and he just stopped and shook his head. I asked why and he shook his head and didn’t answer. I got really upset. Said we’d had a nice night, if you want sex like you’ve said then why aren’t you doing that… it escalated.

I said it wasn’t normal to say you want sex and then not do it. I said he was weird for not wanting to go away together and do something nice and that most normal people in an adult relationship would appreciate me taking time to fit in with them and find somewhere nice to go for a two night break once in a year. I said he was selfish for not listening to me or compromising, said he was making me miserable and why couldn’t he at least understand that as a couple he should be honest and if he wants us to be together he needs to understand that you have to compromise. I said it was obvious why he had never had a relationship before. I said he was a bastard for playing games (no idea if he is but it felt that way). I asked him if he just wanted to break up because I couldn’t understand why he would treat me this way. I also raised the fact that in summer he would only see me briefly on a Sunday night for a few weeks and wouldn’t go for a meal or do anything as he had an interview coming up. It was a huge interview to be fair to him but I found it all a bit odd and extreme and said it was hurtful at the time.

He got upset and then defensive, said he does compromise to be with me because he spends all his free time with me outside work …that is mostly true he does but I said that’s not compromising, that’s just having the relationship. He said he would usually work later than he does it it wasn’t for me, so therefore it was a compromise Hmm

It ended with him saying I clearly thought he was inadequate and therefore he couldn’t meet my needs and I had been horrible to him and that changed how he felt now.

We had some breathing space and reconvened when calmed down but even then he was reluctant to actually talk about things rationally. He didn’t say much and I still have no idea when he wants sex other than he told me that the last two weeks he was too tired after work. He didn’t explain the last 11 months though.

Aside from these things we have had a lovely relationship. I do love him. He’s said the same to me. We’ve had some lovely times and I honestly thought he was the person I would be with.

Have I ruined it this by flying off the handle and saying horrible things in anger? I feel terrible and he is saying he questions the whole relationship after how I snapped. I am conflicted because I know I have been so patient and loving and kind in the past about these things. I’ve told him i support him and there’s no pressure and I’ve generally tried to be lighthearted about trips away and sex but obviously have mentioned it intermittently as time has gone on. He’s a nice person but his reaction to my outburst seems to be to ignore why it happened and to have a reason to withdraw further rather than sitting down together and having a chat about how we can work on things. Have i messed this all up? I also feel desperately sad at the thought of starting again at this age. It scares me. I probably sound pathetic here but IRL I have a good job and I’m usually quite together and positive :(

OP posts:
EdgeOfTheSky · 09/10/2021 12:14

P.S whatever issues it is that he has, you are not helping him, and by your miserable (but righteous) dissatisfaction and dithering around you are actually being quite unkind to him.

He isn't plasticine, you can't mould him to be what you want and need from a relationship, so find your backbone, stop toying with him and put him out of his misery.

anthurium · 09/10/2021 12:14

@ChargingBuck

We went in, ordered and he made some conversation for a few minutes, then sat staring into space with a miserable look, not speaking, barely acknowledging me. I asked what was wrong and he said he didn’t want to go for a drink and I’d made him do it and he wanted to leave. WHY ARE YOU SO HUNG UP ON CONTINUING TO 'DATE' THIS TODDLER? Sorry to shout OP, but how can you not see you are flogging a dead horse, & everything you said to him at the time of your "this is not normal" conversation is accurate?

I honestly think it I never spoke to him again I would never hear from him
There you go - easy peasy.

Think of all the women starting threads on MN who are desperate to extricate themselves from abusive men, & posting for advice about how to get safely away from these monsters.
Congratulate yourself that you won't have to go through any of that, & just walk away from this dysfunctional man.
He is not relationship material. You surely understand that by now?

Doesn't anyone else agree with me that this situation the Op is in is about sunk cost fallacy/loneliness/desperation/ fear...rather than about love?

When you have options in life, you just don't behave like this, do you?

ChargingBuck · 09/10/2021 12:26

Doesn't anyone else agree with me that this situation the Op is in is about sunk cost fallacy/loneliness/desperation/ fear...rather than about love?

Totally, @anthurium

& a relationship - especially not this one! - will not fix that.
The only fix is some serious self-analysis, alongside some qualified support to help OP establish what has caused her crippling lack of self-esteem, & how she goes about reconciling the (probably childhood) causes of that, while building up her own understanding, resilence, & self-determination.

Abersterol, I sincerely hope you do that.

Your GP is a good place to start for a referral.
And btw, you are allowed - in fact encouraged - to "shop around" until you find the therapist that you 'click' with.
If you build a solid temporary relationship with the right therapist, you will amaze yourself at the revelations & strength you are able to find. From that, you build a proper relationship with yourself.
Once you have that under your belt - & it need only take a year or 2, if you invest in yourself properly & do the homework, like so many of us have ...
.. You will no longer fear coming home to an 'empty' home on the dark winter nights.
Because your home will be full of you, & your hobbies, interests, hopes, friends, plans, & the warmth of a well lived life.

And THAT is when the magic starts.
Once you have a genuine relationship with yourself, you will find that you automatically develop better relationships with others. Whether that is friends, colleagues or lovers.

Do it, Aber x Flowers

whynotwhatknot · 09/10/2021 13:59

hes manipulating you op he didnt want to go for a drink you made him

he doesnt want to do things you make him

thats not normal

BiLuminous · 09/10/2021 14:03

I hope you're ok OP. You sound very down. You are worth more than him, and more than you think. I hope you can talk to people IRL too.

youvegottenminuteslynn · 09/10/2021 14:20

Youre beating yourself up either way. You can choose to continue beating yourself up while being with someone who makes you feel worse, or you can beat yourself up without that.

This, really.

Focus on the positives - you know this isn't a healthy relationship and that he is so disinterested that in reality if you disengage he won't chase you. That's a much better position to be in than a bloke who won't let you leave without loads of hassle and harassment.

So you need to just do it. Yes, it'll feel crap and you'll be sad for a while but you feel crap and are sad all the time at the moment already.

Better to get it over and done with then be single and focus on trying to get some counselling to talk through why you let this relationship go on so long so you can avoid repeating the same toxic dynamic in future.

Berkeys · 09/10/2021 14:23

@Tal45

I'm wondering if he suffers with anxiety - if brother and dad barely leave the house it could be in the family - or could be something more like ASD that may explain all the 'odd' behaviour and anxiety. He sounds a bit like he has that clueless innocence that I recognise with asd and things like not wanting to go away somewhere new and not being able to do anything else much because he has an interview coming up just make me wonder. It doesn't sound like he is being malicious to me anyway.
I thought this! Seeing a lot of ASD behaviours here (it’s genetic so father and bro may be too). Low sex drive, hyperfocus on work (special interest), dislike of change in routine, anxiety re job interview, avoidance of emotionally complex discussions, a lack if awareness of how he is impacting on you. My DP has it also and some of the same traits. Join some FB groups for partners of those with ASD, see if it rings true. Thing is, he probably won’t change. If he can see the need to, he might be able to make some compromises but he won’t be able to be someone that he is not. It’s a case of weighing up the pros and the cons for what you want (and, crucially, need) from a relationship.
FlowerArranger · 09/10/2021 14:31

@Abersterol or @abersterol.... OP...

Please, for goodness sake, stop this. This is insane. You wouldn't go on banging your head against a wall, so why are you doing this? Every day you don't put a stop to this ridiculous 'relationship' is another day where your self esteem crumbles more......... until there's none left.

You have received 15 pages of advice and support. None of it seems to be sinking in. Please can you download and read these books - you will not regret it:

WOMEN WHO LOVE TOO MUCH, by Robin Norwood
THE SIX PILLARS OF SELF ESTEEM, by Nathaniel Barden.

FlowersFlowersFlowers

DFOD · 09/10/2021 14:58

@abersterol

I’m finding it so hard. I know i will beat myself up about it and blame myself
Did / do you have a “difficult” parent?

It’s not unusual for people who have had to fawn to or implicitly beg for approval / attention from unpredictable, critical or rejecting parents to believe that the issues are both their fault and their responsibility to fix as being submissive avoided conflict as a child. It was actually relevant then as the child needed to keep that difficult parent onside in order physically survive - to be fed and sheltered. Sometimes we fall in with difficult people as adults and the dynamics are familiar to us and we tolerate it for too long where others would leave . However as adults we don’t need our basic food/shelter needs met by this other adult so the staying in a futile abusive desolate relationship is dysfunctional.

I would be looking less at him - it’s crystal clear he is v damaged and look to yourself to understand how you have tolerated such poor treatment for so long - who taught you that’s what you should endure?

abersterol · 09/10/2021 15:20

@DFOD yes I always felt I had to prove myself and go above and beyond for someone to love me. That’s been a theme for me all my life.

I don’t know why I can’t walk away. I don’t get it. He’s been horrible to me and I blame myself because of some comments I made that were frankly awful - said there was a reason he was always alone, that he’d lied to me, that he wasn’t normal and he was destroying us. He then said I was being awful and it was me who had ruined things by saying all of that.

I am so sad. He told me weeks ago I was the love of his life.

OP posts:
DFOD · 09/10/2021 15:24

@ChargingBuck

Doesn't anyone else agree with me that this situation the Op is in is about sunk cost fallacy/loneliness/desperation/ fear...rather than about love?

Totally, @anthurium

& a relationship - especially not this one! - will not fix that.
The only fix is some serious self-analysis, alongside some qualified support to help OP establish what has caused her crippling lack of self-esteem, & how she goes about reconciling the (probably childhood) causes of that, while building up her own understanding, resilence, & self-determination.

Abersterol, I sincerely hope you do that.

Your GP is a good place to start for a referral.
And btw, you are allowed - in fact encouraged - to "shop around" until you find the therapist that you 'click' with.
If you build a solid temporary relationship with the right therapist, you will amaze yourself at the revelations & strength you are able to find. From that, you build a proper relationship with yourself.
Once you have that under your belt - & it need only take a year or 2, if you invest in yourself properly & do the homework, like so many of us have ...
.. You will no longer fear coming home to an 'empty' home on the dark winter nights.
Because your home will be full of you, & your hobbies, interests, hopes, friends, plans, & the warmth of a well lived life.

And THAT is when the magic starts.
Once you have a genuine relationship with yourself, you will find that you automatically develop better relationships with others. Whether that is friends, colleagues or lovers.

Do it, Aber x Flowers

Amazing post. Bravo. OP we just want you to reach out and you will be hoisted over the wall to a much more wonderful life.

Promise you don’t need to live like this.

The ASD stuff is a dangerous and inadvertently disingenuous distraction….the OP may think that she can read up on techniques and adapt and fix this relationship.

The start point is that this man is almost 40 years on this earth - he has likely resisted any change, compromise or emotional development - seems that he has done the opposite - he has build a rigid, uncompromising, self serving lifestyle to suit himself. He is so entrenched YOU will not shift him … and actually you will see that any nudges from you make him resist even more, so much so that he doubles down and punishes you with emotional abuse and cruelty.

And this dear reader is why you should walk. Who gives a flying fuck about his neurology - the man is cruel and abusive. No need to go down rabbit holes looking for reasons to explain his shocking behaviour - it’s not excusable for anyone to endure.

DFOD · 09/10/2021 15:30

[quote abersterol]@DFOD yes I always felt I had to prove myself and go above and beyond for someone to love me. That’s been a theme for me all my life.

I don’t know why I can’t walk away. I don’t get it. He’s been horrible to me and I blame myself because of some comments I made that were frankly awful - said there was a reason he was always alone, that he’d lied to me, that he wasn’t normal and he was destroying us. He then said I was being awful and it was me who had ruined things by saying all of that.

I am so sad. He told me weeks ago I was the love of his life.[/quote]
That will keep being a theme and you will inadvertently repeat it infinitum and suffer more hurt and deeper damage to your self esteem if you stay with him or meet someone else if you don’t seek professional support to fix yourself (rather than attempt to fix dysfunctional others or dysfunctional relationships).

I really hope that you can see that there are “sunny uplands” ahead if you give yourself what you deserve. No need to live like this.

abersterol · 09/10/2021 15:37

@DFOD thanks. What you say makes sense. I can’t stop focusing on what I’ve done wrong really. I did lose my temper with him and attacked him basically. I said he wasn’t behaving normally and he was acting like a teenager in not discussing things with me properly and openly. I said he has issues and so does his family. I said he needed help. I can’t stop thinking about this because I know that was the moment that pushed him away. Everything changed after that.

I want to be far away from him but I want to do that in the knowledge that I’m not in the wrong. The more awful he’s been like the other night, the more I want to fight to make it better so I can leave quietly and without feeling like he hates me, which he quite clearly does right now. Why is that? Why do I feel I need that in order to leave with confidence? I feel like if I left now he’s think thank god. Because it’s all my fault.

OP posts:
ChargingBuck · 09/10/2021 15:41

some comments I made that were frankly awful - said there was a reason he was always alone, that he’d lied to me, that he wasn’t normal and he was destroying us

Sweetheart - when are you going to realise that those words weren't "awful"? THEY ARE TRUE.

abersterol · 09/10/2021 15:43

@ChargingBuck but they’ve ruined things haven’t they. He’s totally withdrawn since I’ve said this. Which equates to me having destroyed the relationship. If I’d not said such nasty things we’d be fine now. I feel so scared about the future.

OP posts:
ChargingBuck · 09/10/2021 15:47

I can’t stop focusing on what I’ve done wrong really. I did lose my temper with him and attacked him basically. I said he wasn’t behaving normally and he was acting like a teenager in not discussing things with me properly and openly. I said he has issues and so does his family. I said he needed help. I can’t stop thinking about this because I know that was the moment that pushed him away.

He needed pushing away.
That was your sane & rational self talking.
I think you should celebrate that self, & encourage it to take a larger part in your life.

Everything changed after that.

Good. It was high time things changed.
Of course it's going to feel uncomfortable - you are unused to challenging his behaviour. And of course it's sad that this is never going to be the relationship you want. Because HE is not the man you hoped he was. He never will be. He is not relationship material. This is nothing to do with you, & nothing you could do would ever change it.

Please - value yourself, stop thinking about him, & start thinking about you.

abersterol · 09/10/2021 15:47

He doesn’t want me to meet his family because apparently they won’t want me in the house/they don’t like him being long in the house so it would be too much for them. He sees them quite a bit and I feel like I’m not fully part of his life. He doesn’t want to meet mine yet as he’s now not sure about us after what I said to him. I don’t feel like I have a partner. I really thought we shared something special. Why is this so hard.

OP posts:
youvegottenminuteslynn · 09/10/2021 15:48

[quote abersterol]@ChargingBuck but they’ve ruined things haven’t they. He’s totally withdrawn since I’ve said this. Which equates to me having destroyed the relationship. If I’d not said such nasty things we’d be fine now. I feel so scared about the future.[/quote]
But my love you wouldn't be 'fine' now, you'd simply be how you were before - a couple in a dysfunctional, unhealthy, unhappy relationship that makes you frequently anxious, confused and distressed. That was your status quo before the comments. At best, you've 'ruined' something that was already not working anyway.

You need to look into having some counselling to help you go through the steps of ending this relationship and doing so decisively. Is that something you'd be open to doing?

abersterol · 09/10/2021 15:49

@ChargingBuck how do I start thinking about me? It feels so lonely to do that. I can’t think of anything that would be nice alone. It makes me feel scared for the future. I wanted to build a life with someone not start from scratch especially at this age. I feel so defeated and sad.

OP posts:
abersterol · 09/10/2021 15:50

@youvegottenminuteslynn I started therapy a week ago and the first thing they said was that I needed to walk away. They were definitive on it. They said he was gaslighting me and I needed to examine why I didn’t think I was worth more. And I don’t have the answers to that really.

OP posts:
DFOD · 09/10/2021 15:51

[quote abersterol]@ChargingBuck but they’ve ruined things haven’t they. He’s totally withdrawn since I’ve said this. Which equates to me having destroyed the relationship. If I’d not said such nasty things we’d be fine now. I feel so scared about the future.[/quote]
No his cruel, uncompromising and dysfunctional behaviour destroyed the “relationship” - if that’s what you even can call this “situationship”

You just described in words what was happening in behaviour.

You were not wrong to do that.

ChargingBuck · 09/10/2021 15:52

[quote abersterol]@ChargingBuck but they’ve ruined things haven’t they. He’s totally withdrawn since I’ve said this. Which equates to me having destroyed the relationship. If I’d not said such nasty things we’d be fine now. I feel so scared about the future.[/quote]
Aber, you know damn well YOU WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN FINE.

Things were so far from fine that you eventually lost your temper (justifiably) & named those problematic behaviours.

Are you seriously trying to sell yourself the notion that if you chose not to name the problematic behaviours, they would no longer be a problem?

You are still focused on this man, on an inadequate 'relationship' that never really was, & I suspect using that as a tactic to avoid what you perceive as the difficult step of deliberately becoming single for a while.

Your answers are not with this man - or any other man, at this stage.
Your answers are inside you, & you will find them with expert help.

But you are never going to heal while you keep this distracting & abusive man in your life.

DFOD · 09/10/2021 15:54

[quote abersterol]@ChargingBuck how do I start thinking about me? It feels so lonely to do that. I can’t think of anything that would be nice alone. It makes me feel scared for the future. I wanted to build a life with someone not start from scratch especially at this age. I feel so defeated and sad.[/quote]
Well done for starting therapy. Fully immerse yourself in it - be patient and have faith that you will get there. Get him out of the picture so that you can give yourself full attention.

And keep re-reading this post -

The only fix is some serious self-analysis, alongside some qualified support to help OP establish what has caused her crippling lack of self-esteem, & how she goes about reconciling the (probably childhood) causes of that, while building up her own understanding, resilence, & self-determination.

Abersterol, I sincerely hope you do that.

Your GP is a good place to start for a referral.
And btw, you are allowed - in fact encouraged - to "shop around" until you find the therapist that you 'click' with.
If you build a solid temporary relationship with the right therapist, you will amaze yourself at the revelations & strength you are able to find. From that, you build a proper relationship with yourself.
Once you have that under your belt - & it need only take a year or 2, if you invest in yourself properly & do the homework, like so many of us have ...
.. You will no longer fear coming home to an 'empty' home on the dark winter nights.
Because your home will be full of you, & your hobbies, interests, hopes, friends, plans, & the warmth of a well lived life.

And THAT is when the magic starts.
Once you have a genuine relationship with yourself, you will find that you automatically develop better relationships with others. Whether that is friends, colleagues or lovers.

Do it, Aber x flowers

youvegottenminuteslynn · 09/10/2021 15:55

[quote abersterol]@youvegottenminuteslynn I started therapy a week ago and the first thing they said was that I needed to walk away. They were definitive on it. They said he was gaslighting me and I needed to examine why I didn’t think I was worth more. And I don’t have the answers to that really.[/quote]
That's brilliant news! It means you have someone who can guide you through this process by asking you questions about your behaviour so you can start to understand your motivations and desired outcomes.

You want to be happy, healthy and secure in a relationship. That is a fundamental truth.

You cannot have those things in a relationship with this specific man. That is another fundamental truth.

So any action (or inaction) that means you stay as you are now or invest more heavily in the relationship can only lead to you moving further away from your goal.

Staying in this relationship is total self sabotage. I think that perhaps your desire not to 'fail' or be the 'bad guy' is overriding your desire to actually be happy and healthy. For some reason it's more important to you to be perceived as worthy of love (even if the person you want it from is utterly toxic) than it is to actually experience healthy love, which requires you to confront the sunk cost fallacy and take the risk of leaving someone without knowing what will come next.

But you know nothing good can come next if you stay with him. There's only one option for you - break up with him.

Your counsellor can help you work towards clear goals such as ending the relationship and starting to process the mindset that led to you staying so long.

DFOD · 09/10/2021 15:58

He is not that fundamental in your existence - you have been with him barely a year - you have survived for 34 years already without this cruel, disordered, abusive character in your life.