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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Open marriage has gone wrong 😑

999 replies

PhillyQueen · 02/10/2021 20:42

Name change for this as previous posts may be outing.

Sex life with DH dried up completely about 8 years ago. It was never stellar but that didn’t seem particularly important to either of us . Our relationship was otherwise perfect, he is a fine person and a great dad to our (now adult) kids and we used to have sex at most weekly, then over the years went to fortnightly and monthly until it tailed off altogether. Neither of us seemed bothered and it wasn’t a big deal and I just assumed that’s what happened in long-term relationships. Life was good even if any passion was long-gone. We have both always had our own friends as well as mutual ones, we both run businesses, we were busy but always looked forward to time together.

After the sex stopped altogether, we avoided the subject for a couple of years then we had the conversation where we both agreed that we wanted to stay together as we love each other but that DH didn’t want to give up that part of his life forever and that if it wasn’t possible with me, he would like to look elsewhere and would prefer to do it with my blessing. So, good idea or not, we had an open marriage policy for a few years and it seemed to work well. It was reciprocal but I wasn’t up for it with anyone , not just him, I’ve never been very sexual. Even though he had a couple of brief affairs, nothing changed with our family life and I was happy enough knowing we could carry on as we were. All good. Not a perfect love story but a practical way of keeping things going, which is what we both wanted.

Only now things have changed. He has met someone he really likes, by his own admission even loves, and I am worried he is going to leave me and our life for her. She is younger than us and very attractive. If I were standing next to her, I would look like her grandmother. He is absolutely smitten with her and for the first time, I feel our marriage is truly in danger.

I feel that DH has violated the terms of our agreement for an open marriage and should stop seeing this woman but he has said he won’t do that, that she makes him happy, and that we agreed that we could both see other people etc. so it’s me that’s being unreasonable. Falling in love with someone else was never part of the deal I agreed to, though.

So what can I do? Grit my teeth and bear it and hope they break up? Or ask him again to stop seeing her otherwise our marriage will have to end?

OP posts:
BoredAndUnfulfilled · 03/10/2021 06:44

@whycantwegoonasthree would you mind if I messaged you? The links/books you’ve shared are very interesting, and I’d be interested in hearing more about how you’ve made your situation work as I’m becoming more convinced on a daily basis that a traditional monogamous relationship isn’t for me and I’d rather not hijack this thread. Thanks

AnyOldPrion · 03/10/2021 06:49

Forgot to consider the other possibility. If you ask him whether he thinks this might be the end of your marriage, and he answers “yes, it might”, then I think you should ask him to leave and stick to it. If he says that, then he will be unwilling to modify anything and is no longer considering you and your feelings, but is openly using you for his convenience while he decides which way to jump.

If that is the case, don’t do the pick me dance. Don’t try to compete with her and hope he’ll choose you. End it with some dignity. Otherwise, you’ll end up despising yourself.

This whole situation basically comes down to you assessing whether you can find a way to continue this relationship with your self-respect intact. If not, and you recognise that he’s now properly disrespecting you, then you have to walk away.

Danceswithwhippets · 03/10/2021 06:58

We did all work through it, and are now in a consensually non-monogamous relationship with each other, he is still happily married to his (now) monogamous wife, and I have another long-term partner – and we both have other friends and lovers. We each have negotiated what we want and need and largely we have it.

As with multi-partner non-conventional relationships generally whycantwegoonasthree the skill seems to be in communication.

But I don’t understand where people find the time. You are describing 4 people ie 2 couples, where 3 of them have active relationships outside those couples. Plus more, more casual, relationships going on.
Do you all work? Have children/older parents who need attention? Pets to take to the vet? Cars to get MOTd? Holidays to go on? Christmases to deal with?

I’m being flippant, but my question is serious (and envious)-for most people, having only one affair absorbs most of the time available!

onelittlefrog · 03/10/2021 07:06

Ask him whether he thinks this might be the end of your marriage and tell him you want him to be completely honest. If he says he doesn’t want to leave the marriage, ask him why and listen to his response and see whether you find it believable

@AnyOldPrion Sorry but I think you are being naive here.

Why on earth would he leave his marriage, if he doesn't have to?

He has the ideal situation - a stable marriage, a wife to come home to and another woman who is giving him all of the sex and excitement that he isn't getting at home.

He's obviously going to say that he wants to save the marriage, but this would be entirely for his own self interest, not for the wellbeing of his wife.

If he were to leave he would presumably be financially disadvantaged and would have to set up a whole new home on his own - who on earth wants to do that if they don't have to?

OP will never be happy with the situation if they stay married and he stays with her - that is crystal clear from her posts. She is hurting.

They need to end the marriage and I don't think anyone here should be trying to convince OP to stay - her husband will be doing his best to do that, and it will be entirely against her best interests. She needs to have the strength to do what is best for her and not give in to him.

ManifestingJoy · 03/10/2021 07:06

You cannot blame yourself for agreeing to an open marriage.. For many women the marriage would have been over by then. You held it together on shaky ground for a few extra years. Wine

Blackbird2020 · 03/10/2021 07:10

Your DH is not a nice person. He’s shifted the boundaries of your agreement to suit him, without a thought for the hurt he’s causing his wife (who he doesn’t even want to leave!).

Where is your anger?! Does this man you married have zero empathy for the woman he spent most of his adult life with, who raised your children together with, who was brave enough to discuss and undertake an open marriage with?!

A good, honest and respectful person would come to you first, tell you things are changing for him, ask you how you feel, tell you he understands if you want to end the marriage because of this, basically OWN HIS SITUATION. Instead you had to ask the questions, he blurs the lines and tells you it’s OK because it’s an ‘open marriage’, he refuses to return to what was previously agreed, but also refuses to leave his marriage.

What. An. Immature. Typical. Bloody. Entitled. Bloke.

OP - wake up and see who your DH has become. He doesn’t deserve you.

Summerfun54321 · 03/10/2021 07:13

I personally would just stay together and carry on as you were. He may well be just lusting after her and she might not actually want anything more than casual sex. Plenty of casual sex relationships end up with one person falling in love then it ending. You’re grandparents and have been living as friends for a long time (whether you admit it or not), why stop now? You should look to fulfil your life in other ways though like hobbies and meeting others or even dating, and stop looking to your DH to provide everything you need to be happy.

SunshineCake1 · 03/10/2021 07:16

I feel so sorry for you @PhillyQueen. I also thought sex wasn't a big deal. Dh was so much better than my exes and we were happy. Then I discovered he had lied and on my wedding night, for a moment, I wondered if I had made a mistake. Looking back I think I have been kidding myself about the importance of intimacy. He's not fussed. I'd like some. I met with an ex for a drink as we do every few years. Yep, still would. As would he. It is a crap position to be in.

ManifestingJoy · 03/10/2021 07:22

The ''boundaries'' shifted gradually I'm sure.

I wouldn't berate him too much but @PhillyQueen I would end the marriage for your sake of your dignity not because he has ''found somebody else to be with in a long term relationship''. Because, frankly, has he?

He might have been the one married man telling the truth when he told her that he and his wife no longer had sex and that they'd agreed to that.

And somewhere along the line she heard that and went on another date with him.

I know she's not some young naive woman about to miss out on motherhood if she doesn't grab the last available bargain off the shelf, but if she's above averagely attractive and in her mid forties, does she really want to take on a 62 year old in a full time committed kind of way??

I'm guessing no. Guessing that she'll take the dinners and the walks and the chats and the sex but without any fears that she''ll end up being his carer.

His being on day release from an open marriage is probably a relief to her.

But I would divorce him because he's checked out now. He's not even there emotionally anymore.

I wonder if the attractive mid forties woman will re filter what she's been told if you two get divorced. Maybe unfairly she will wonder if she was told the truth.

I doubt he's going to walk off in to the sunset with her.

For most attractive women in their mid forties, the appeal of a 62 year old would be the dinners, the company and that he was NOT going to be their 82 year old to look after when she's mid 60s

DoesHePlayTheFiddle · 03/10/2021 07:24

OP, the 'open marriage' issue is a red herring. If you'd had a standard marriage, he could have met a younger woman, fallen in love and wanted to be with her. You would have felt shocked, let down, betrayed, embarrassed, worried about your future, all the things you are feeling now.

He isn't obliged to stay with you to give you a comfortable life. When people ask why your marriage is ending, 'He is seeing someone else' is a socially-acceptable reason. If he says 'Philly wouldn't have sex with me', well, they all say that so it's not a big deal.

So now you sort those famous ducks into the neatest row you can manage, get yourself the shit-hot lawyer (tomorrow, because he's had a head-start, he knew this was coming) and start planning your lovely solo life. It can be fabulous being a single older woman - I know, I am one. Get over the shock and discomfort and make this the divorce all those still-married wives will envy.

ManifestingJoy · 03/10/2021 07:28

@Summerfun54321 this is probably true too, despite what i said ''divorce him!''.

Reality is that they may not last 18 months. So many relationships end at this point.

If OP spends the next 19 months doing what she wants to do. Jewellery Design courses, creative writing, walking the camino, wine tasting club........... the list is endless, it could be a great period in her life to meet platonic friends. One day she'll be off out to pottery class to glaze her creations and she'll realise he's moping on the couch asking her when she'll be home with puppy dog eyes. Maybe. Who knows!?

DomPom47 · 03/10/2021 07:32

The agreement does not matter - at his end he is in love and it is not just about sex. I mean what are you going to do sue him for breaking your open marriage just sex no love agreement?
You need to accept this situation and prepare for him to move out and/or divorce you. If you think you cannot accept this speak to someone professionally to help you process what is happening and hopefully move on.

Ori3 · 03/10/2021 07:36

This is the risk you run when you agree to an open marriage. It’s a high risk too, as sooner or later one, or both of you are very likely to find someone that you have a deep emotional attachment too as well as a physical one. Surely you considered this before going down this path you’ve chosen? It must have crossed your mind at least? If not, I don’t really know what advice you can expect other than to let him go, with grace, as another poster up thread has already suggested.

People’s hearts are their own, & you can’t control them. Nor can the person in question, especially in an open-marriage type situation. I think you need to work on accepting the inevitable here & resolve yourself to moving on.

Mrgrinch · 03/10/2021 07:45

Just get out OP.

AnyOldPrion · 03/10/2021 07:50

He's obviously going to say that he wants to save the marriage, but this would be entirely for his own self interest, not for the wellbeing of his wife.

But his wife wants a marriage without sex. I don’t get the impression this is about sexual compatibility, but about the fact that she doesn’t really enjoy it and likely wouldn’t with anyone.

Realistically, she now has to make a decision about whether she wants a compromised marriage or no marriage at all. It’s not about whether he wants to “save his marriage”. That phrase has connotations of trying to get it back to some kind of normal, monogamous relationship including all aspects of a normal marriage, which for most would include sex.

It’s not about whether he wants to “save the marriage “ but about whether there are other values about the contract of being married that outweigh the romantic ideal that he might have the perfect future with someone else, if only he can find her,

He may have been playing OP all along. He might have been staying while getting the chance to play away with the full intention of leaving when he did. But he might not and he might not have the intention of leaving, even now.

I realise he is not considering the well-being of his wife and putting her first, as you would expect in a full, normal marriage situation, but this isn’t a full, normal marriage situation, and has no chance of being that.

As someone who has left her marriage because of certain behaviour patterns in my ex that I couldn’t live with and retain my self-respect, I am now 52 and looking at a long and probably quite lonely life. I miss things about my marriage, such as having a friend, doing things together and feeling that there was someone there when the chips were down. He was wonderful during a long period when I was very unwell, so the marriage was not without any value.

Had I been able to live with his actions and retain my self respect, while recognising that my marriage was never going to be properly “happily ever after” I could possibly have had a reasonably contented and comfortable old age.

Many of us live with compromised marriages, but that doesn’t play well with the modern version of the fairy tale, which says that if the marriage isn’t perfect, we should walk away and might find one that is. Maybe the OP will get lucky and find a man with no interest in sex, but I think it might be like trying to find a needle in a haystack.

Not so very long ago, leaving your marriage was unacceptable and compromised marriages were probably the norm. Doubtless some were very unhappy at being stuck, but others might at least have appreciated some aspects, such as knowing there was a degree of stability, even if it was imperfect.

I don’t think I’m being entirely naive. I think it’s possible I’m being ruthlessly pragmatic, but have a perspective that’s alien to current expectations. Maybe he’ll lie, maybe he won’t. OP might well be able to tell the difference, unless he’s a practiced liar, which the current situation suggests is not the case. If he was that, he could easily have accepted no sex and had affairs and lied and never told her at all. At least he came to her openly, explained that he wanted to continue the marriage, but that if she didn’t want sex, he needed some compromise.

He now wants her to compromise again. He hasn’t been completely honest about it on this occasion and that is the problem. Whether the further compromise can work for her is up to her. Maybe OP can’t live with it, maybe she can’t. The only way to find that out is by working through a process of discussion about possible ways it might work, if she decides that’s what she wants.

What she can never have again with this man is a relationship where he is putting her needs and well-being first in every situation. It’s up to her whether she can live with that fact or not. I’d say that up till now, she has been lying to herself about what this is. She hoped that was still a possibility, but as soon as he asked for an open marriage, that possibility was gone. She is now facing it, and of course it’s painful.

But I can’t say whether it’s worth it for her to try and persevere or not. She needs to work that one out for herself, bearing in mind that she has no control over his actions, but has to choose whether she is willing to accept this at all, along with some kind of assessment over whether she can still trust he’s telling the truth or not. She may decide it’s worth the risk, she may not, but only she can decide, and for that, she needs a cool enough head to look at this pragmatically and understand the actual choice she has to make,

ManifestingJoy · 03/10/2021 07:53

I think the agreement is relevant. It'd be far less of a betrayal. Not saying it wouldn't hurt but it's not the usual case of married man happy at home off out elsewhere with an eye open. That was the deal!

Feelslikealot · 03/10/2021 07:55

It's the op who is having her cake and eating it. He is trapped in a sexless marriage its no wonder he's now found a someone he can have a proper relationship with, sex and all. Either you're going to have to cross your fingers and hope they get bored with each other, look the other way while he falls more in love with her, or get ready to divorce.

ManifestingJoy · 03/10/2021 08:00

ha ha yeh because marriage is SO great for women and so terrible for men.

I think they've proved that that is not what's reported in terms of happiness.

But, good reminder OP are you going to do all of the wife work while he is off out wining, dining and loving?

Onlinedilema · 03/10/2021 08:05

My advise. Go out and do something for yourself. Buy new clothes, get your hair done, start socialising join new classes etc etc.
Do what YOU want to do.
Start looking to meet someone who you feel attracted to.
You say you aren't interested in sex. I can guarantee with the right person you absolutely would be. You n at weren't interested in sex with your dh and that is very common.
Separate from your dh. Your marriage is dead you can never go back and feel how you did before this bomb exploded.
Separate now whilst it's still amicable.

IceCreamAndCandyfloss · 03/10/2021 08:09

You may not want to leave the life you have and are happy with it but he’s not. It seems to be you want it on your terms as you have it all planned and whilst that makes you happy he has feelings and needs too.

Bananarama21 · 03/10/2021 08:09

I don't see your dh as a bad guy, you don't want any physical part of a relationship but happy to take everything else that comes with having a relationship. You made a decision you didn't want to break up so opened your marriage up. It was inevitable he was going to meet someone else and by having sex he's formed a connection with this woman. I think it was unrealistic to expect otherwise. It must be heartbreaking having a partner who doesn't want to be intimate with you, your cohabiting together and nothing more than friends. It's clear this relationship is over but it was long over when you took sex off the table and opened the marriage up.

KatherineJaneway · 03/10/2021 08:10

I want to stay married because I love DH and I like our life together. We really do work well together as a unit and he is a very good person who I want to grow older with and enjoy our family, travel and, when it happens, retirement with.

Where will the OW fit in?

Thatsplentyjack · 03/10/2021 08:11

OP if he really loved you he would have stuck to the terms of your agreement and stopped sleeping with this woman when he started having feelings for her. What he is doing is having a full blown affair right in front of you. He's texting her infront of you and you know who it is he's even talking to you about her.
I think he's being an absolute tosser actually.

LoislovesStewie · 03/10/2021 08:16

A question; are you still physically affectionate towards one another ?

HaveringWavering · 03/10/2021 08:16

I don’t really understand how you could have imagined your nice, good, family man husband in his sixties having grubby no- questions- asked, don’t stay the night sex in hotels. He might as well have been using prostitutes. It can’t be much of a surprise that, being a nice man, he formed a bond with someone.