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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Open marriage has gone wrong 😑

999 replies

PhillyQueen · 02/10/2021 20:42

Name change for this as previous posts may be outing.

Sex life with DH dried up completely about 8 years ago. It was never stellar but that didn’t seem particularly important to either of us . Our relationship was otherwise perfect, he is a fine person and a great dad to our (now adult) kids and we used to have sex at most weekly, then over the years went to fortnightly and monthly until it tailed off altogether. Neither of us seemed bothered and it wasn’t a big deal and I just assumed that’s what happened in long-term relationships. Life was good even if any passion was long-gone. We have both always had our own friends as well as mutual ones, we both run businesses, we were busy but always looked forward to time together.

After the sex stopped altogether, we avoided the subject for a couple of years then we had the conversation where we both agreed that we wanted to stay together as we love each other but that DH didn’t want to give up that part of his life forever and that if it wasn’t possible with me, he would like to look elsewhere and would prefer to do it with my blessing. So, good idea or not, we had an open marriage policy for a few years and it seemed to work well. It was reciprocal but I wasn’t up for it with anyone , not just him, I’ve never been very sexual. Even though he had a couple of brief affairs, nothing changed with our family life and I was happy enough knowing we could carry on as we were. All good. Not a perfect love story but a practical way of keeping things going, which is what we both wanted.

Only now things have changed. He has met someone he really likes, by his own admission even loves, and I am worried he is going to leave me and our life for her. She is younger than us and very attractive. If I were standing next to her, I would look like her grandmother. He is absolutely smitten with her and for the first time, I feel our marriage is truly in danger.

I feel that DH has violated the terms of our agreement for an open marriage and should stop seeing this woman but he has said he won’t do that, that she makes him happy, and that we agreed that we could both see other people etc. so it’s me that’s being unreasonable. Falling in love with someone else was never part of the deal I agreed to, though.

So what can I do? Grit my teeth and bear it and hope they break up? Or ask him again to stop seeing her otherwise our marriage will have to end?

OP posts:
TrollsAreSaddos · 03/10/2021 01:13

@Dixiechickonhols

Divorce amicably and stay friends. You can’t stay married to someone who is in love with someone else.
This sounds the best plan.
thenewduchessofhastings · 03/10/2021 01:24

@PhillyQueen

The agreement was just sex, no dating (other than maybe an initial meeting) and no overnights. I didn’t demand this, this is what DH came up with and I agreed to it. It was a relief in some ways because I think the alternative for him was ending the marriage and I was happy we had found a way through. It never impinged on our life before now but now I cannot ignore it.
He's violated this agreement;he isn't indulging in casual sex in an open marriage he's literally having a full blown affair right in front of you face and then rubs your nose in it.

Find your self respect;get angry;find yourself a SHL (shit hot lawyer).If you want love and companionship without the sex;get a dog;it'll be more loyal than your DH.

Sugarntailsnluvlyspicysnails · 03/10/2021 01:24

If you'll permit me to talk in ridiculous metaphors....

I think what you've done is agreed to make veggie soup together. You can chuck all sorts in, but it's veggie soup. Usually the heart of it being onions. What's happened is he's added ham. No longer veggie soup. Not your deal. How long until you're eating pate on toast?

Anyway. I sense I am about to be attacked by some killer tomatoes so I'm off. Good luck. If I were you, I might consider running as well...

Alcemeg · 03/10/2021 01:39

Sorry OP, this must be so hard to come to terms with. But, as a PP said, why aren't you pleased for him? Did you expect him to make do for ever with what sounds like a lovely friendship, but not a marriage? x

TheAntiGardener · 03/10/2021 01:45

What a horrible shock, op. I really feel for you. I don’t see this as being different from any other situation where someone thinks they’re in a happy, healthy, enduring relationship only to find their partner has a different perspective. It’s always going to be sad.

I have a slightly different take from most posters as I don’t think the op made a mistake trying this arrangement. Logically, if what the husband needed was both the emotional and sexual connections the options were splitting years ago, clandestine affairs or this. This arrangement was a shot at trying to avoid that - and it has worked until now. Op and her husband got several more happy years out of their relationship. If it does now end, it does so openly, honestly and in the knowledge that it really did last its course. Not a bad outcome at all when you consider it.

So I don’t think you have anything to regret, op.

It’s sad, but nobody has really made any mistakes or done anything wrong and I think focusing on the ‘open relationship’ is a red herring.

On a slightly different point, I find some of the descriptions on here of long term relationships without sex insulting tbh. Of course sex is a key component for most people and a relationship would be incomplete for them without, but that is not true for everyone. I think it’s offensive to those people to insist that their longterm (and generally exclusive) relationships are just friendships or make them ‘just pals’ or housemates. There is an intimacy that goes beyond sexual in most relationships and it’s an insult to say those that don’t have sex aren’t real in some way.

RantyAunty · 03/10/2021 02:06

Have you thought about going on some dates yourself?

lilmishap · 03/10/2021 02:08

@TheAntiGardener we are empathising with her Husband, a sexless marriage where both parties feel loved, wanted and settled is great.

That isn't what the OPs husband was living though.

My relationship with my brother is real and pure and whole host of other lovely sounding words that don't include 'just'.

You can't shame people for wanting a normal adult relationship, that includes sex, with their spouse. That is what he signed up for and those were the terms of their agreement, he obliged when OP stopped wanting sex despite not being happy with it and OP admits he was wanting to leave because he wasn't happy.

Nobody's insulting anyone by acknowledging that sexual compatibility matters in a long marriage.

TheAntiGardener · 03/10/2021 02:31

Yours wasn’t one of the comments I was thinking of, lilmishap. If the relationship is incomplete for op’s husband, then it is incomplete for him. That’s a fact. My objection is to comments that describe sexless relationships - in general - as being friendships, etc. There have been a few on here along the lines of ‘it’s really a friendship, isn’t it’, which without the important qualifier ‘for your dh’ or in your words ‘if you aren’t on board with it’, sounds like a sweeping judgement on all sexless relationships. That blanket judgement that these are not proper relationships is what I was reacting to.

I certainly was not suggesting that anyone ought to settle for, be happy in or stay in a relationship without sex if that isn’t what they want.

1forAll74 · 03/10/2021 02:34

I would imagine that some open marriages would fall apart eventually. It's fairly reasonable, and maybe obvious, that someone will fall for another person sooner or later.When you are dealing with people, you never know how their emotional feelings will develop in time,, despite original plans, for this to not happen. I guess that everyone then, has to make some decisions for themselves, for how they are going to work things out.

tricky29 · 03/10/2021 02:36

No judgement from me but you WERE happy for him to have his physical needs met elsewhere while being the prime focus of his emotional commitment. It’s a bit naive to think he wouldn’t develop an emotional commitment to a woman he’s having sex with. Sex, love, commitment, monogamy are intrinsically linked.

I think you probably need to separate. He’s with you, with a family and a history which is massively significant, but sexually involved with another, which is immediate and intoxicating.

He will only recognise the value of your relationship if it’s not there. If he two of you are apart he will be able to decide which relationship means the most . It may end in divorce but at least you will know where you are. Being divorced and civil friends isn’t a failure.

MobyDicksTinyCanoe · 03/10/2021 02:43

God just let him go. You can't manipulate him into staying in a sexless marriage because it's an easier life for you... Do what you should have done years ago and let him have a divorce.

Derbee · 03/10/2021 03:25

Sorry OP, I think this was probably inevitable. He can’t help that he’s eventually met and fallen in love with someone. You can’t help that you feel uncomfortable with it.

I think your choice is to learn to be ok with it, or decide that your marriage is no longer working for you. He may not be planning to leave you for her, but he may be planning to carry on a loving relationship with both of you. You might find that more difficult in the long term, as it will prolong your suffering.

Only you can decide how you go forward, for YOU. It’s not fair to ask him to give her up, and he probably wouldn’t at this point anyway. It is however fair for you to decide that this isn’t what you signed up for, and is not suiting you as a long term situation.

Testingprof · 03/10/2021 04:12

[quote lilmishap]@TheAntiGardener we are empathising with her Husband, a sexless marriage where both parties feel loved, wanted and settled is great.

That isn't what the OPs husband was living though.

My relationship with my brother is real and pure and whole host of other lovely sounding words that don't include 'just'.

You can't shame people for wanting a normal adult relationship, that includes sex, with their spouse. That is what he signed up for and those were the terms of their agreement, he obliged when OP stopped wanting sex despite not being happy with it and OP admits he was wanting to leave because he wasn't happy.

Nobody's insulting anyone by acknowledging that sexual compatibility matters in a long marriage.[/quote]
Equally posters should shame people like the OP who love their partners but aren’t interested in sex for whatever reason. It’s still an adult relationship and I think empathy is needed both ways.

AllyBama · 03/10/2021 04:22

@Macaroni46

Tbh honest OP I think it's you who's having their cake and eating it. You didn't want to have sex any more and have admitted it's not important to you (which is your prerogative) BUT you expected your DH to be satisfied with just casual sex. For many people, sex is a vital component of an intimate and loving relationship ie marriage. I'm actually quite pleased to read that he's formed a relationship with the OW as it shows that for him, sex is not just a physical act. I think you're clinging on to your 'marriage' because you like your lifestyle, security and the outward image of being married when in reality it's not been a marriage for a very long time. Let him go OP. Let him go with grace and dignity and build yourself a new life.
I agree with this.

The arrangement you wanted obviously wasn’t working for your husband anymore. You may have been able to associate a happy marriage with a sexless one, it seems he has found a connection with another person that he can love physically as well as all the other ways.

All your posts as far as I can see have been speaking about what does and doesn’t suit you, nothing actually of what he wants (because ostensibly you haven’t asked him).

I do wonder if he’s been unhappy for a while and in this new woman, he’s actually found happiness again? So why would you want to keep him from that, when you definitely know that sex will never be on the table for the two of you?

I hear what you’re saying, that this was never the arrangement but do you get the impression that he didn’t intentionally set out to find love, rather than it’s just happened? I’m sorry but if you play with fire, you’re bound to get burned.

The dignified and unselfish thing would be to let him go, let him be happy because it is as plain as day that while I’m sure he does love you, you can’t make him happy anymore.

Balonzette · 03/10/2021 04:23

When I read the title, all I could think was "An open marriage not working out? Who'd have thought it?"

There was always a chance this was going to happen.

I think you need to leave.

IHateCoronavirus · 03/10/2021 04:40

Talk with him about his intentions op. He sounds honest. He’s not tried to hide anything which I guess might be seen as a blessing.
Then take some time from there to consider what that means for you. You can’t change someone’s thoughts, feelings and behaviours, just how you react to them. What you do is the only choice you have in this situation.

MsDogLady · 03/10/2021 05:10

As you say, he set the boundaries of discreet, casual sex in hotels, with no dating or overnights. This arrangement worked for you both, and you felt secure within these boundaries. You never felt marginalized or disrespected, and the marriage was never undermined.

Although he initially honored the agreement, he recently felt entitled to unilaterally change the parameters without your consent. He allowed himself to become deeply involved in a full relationship. He and OW are parading around in public as a couple, and he won’t give her up. He has ridden roughshod over your agreed upon boundaries and broken your heart.

As I said earlier, I personally would not brutalize myself by staying under the same roof and suffering through a farce of ‘normalcy’ when his heart and constant thoughts are with another woman. He would be feeling the loss of me.

ItsahardGobbutsomeonehastodoit · 03/10/2021 05:21

"It's a shame that you didn't ask him to only use sex workers"
Ugh. There's always one.

onelittlefrog · 03/10/2021 05:35

@PhillyQueen

There’s lots of good stuff still there and I don’t think he actually wants to end our marriage, I think he wants to carry on as we are. See her and be married to me. I accept that he sleeps with her but I cannot accept that he loves her and thinks about her all the time (his admission).

I think what really tore me apart was that he says he enjoys being with her in non-sexual situations as he does being in bed with her. The sex I can cope with, after all I don’t want that and I agreed to him seeking that elsewhere, but the dinners and the walks and the looking at his phone and smiling when she texts, no.

Look, this was always a possibility.

When you agree to an "open marriage" and to your partner having sex with other people, you do leave yourself open to the possibility that they might fall in love.

It's not really fair of you to say that he is being unreasonable for having fallen in love, when you both agreed to him looking outside of the marriage for physical connection.

Physical intimacy and love/ emotions are not easy to keep separate, and I am always scepital of people who claim they can do this. Even in a "friends with benefits" situation there are usually some feelings, as much as they may claim otherwise.

If you are intimate with someone over a long enough period then feelings are bound to develop on one side or both. It's how humans are wired. It would be quite a callous person who could have lots of sex with someone and never develop an emotional attachment, and that does not sound like your husband.

So, YABU to expect this to never have happened, however it's understandable you did what you did as you were trying to save your marriage.

Your husband naturally wants to "have his cake and eat it" - of course he wants to stay with both of you. That is the best outcome for him, but not for you. I'm afraid it does sound like you need to move on from this marriage OP and allow him to have his happiness with this woman. It's very hard but it will be for the best for the sake of your own sanity and wellbeing. Good luck.

WTF475878237NC · 03/10/2021 05:38

Sadly he has broken his own very sensible rules that were there for the protection of your marriage and it's too late I fear. He has met someone he can do all the things you want for your future with, but also have the special intimacy sex brings that your marriage doesn't offer.

LoislovesStewie · 03/10/2021 05:40

@Onthedunes

So why did Tom Jones stay with his wife, there are many other reasons for staying together other than sex.

Maybe he will throw the towel in and want to divorce but I think this situation is a little more complicated than as the pp said throwing ultimatums.

I also think there have been many cruel comments on here, not called for towards a woman who is clearly devasted.

He stayed with his wife because he could use her in order not to get involved;iyswim. In other words he kept the women away from a romantic relationship by saying 'I will never leave Linda'. (Can't stand him BTW).
mathanxiety · 03/10/2021 05:49

I don't know why you expected a man capable of forming a deep connection with someone not to form a deep connection with someone, especially when involved in a sexual relationship, which you were not interested in.

Your marriage was over well before the day it became 'open'.

I'm not sure what you think it is that you are trying to hold onto here.

mathanxiety · 03/10/2021 05:56

@lilmishap, agree

BoredAndUnfulfilled · 03/10/2021 06:29

You say that the other woman is aware of the arrangement. Have you considered sitting down and having a very open conversation between the three of you about what’s going on?
Yes, it will be difficult, but at least it gives all parties an honest account of what’s actually happening & how everyone feels about it and then you can figure out the best way of moving forward so that nobody is getting hurt.

Good luck to you, whatever you decide to do.

AnyOldPrion · 03/10/2021 06:39

Feel really sorry for you OP. This was something I considered before my marriage ended (for other reasons) because me and my ex were not really compatible in bed, though we were limping on, rather than stopping altogether.

It’s bad that he’s telling you about it. It’s been noted on Mumsnet that “mentionitis” is often a sign of someone playing away, which is what is effectively happening here.

But having gone down this line, I think you’d always have to accept it might be a risk. I don’t necessarily agree with those who are saying he can have a full relationship with her and yours has run its course. Being married to someone is different from having an affair with someone, no matter how intense. I can imagine a situation where (like Tom Jones) a man can value his marriage enough to stay in it, even while regularly playing away. And if his wife is okay with it, then it’s none of my business.

I can see why you’re struggling and that you’re jealous, but I think open marriage means that you have to accept he might develop feelings as well. I don’t necessarily think it means he will leave, if there are still things in his marriage that he values. This is what “if you love someone, set them free” means to me. If he loves you, he might well remain, despite falling “in love” with someone else.

It comes down to whether you trust him and whether you can bear this. Obviously you trusted him enough to let him have sex. You’ve asked him if he’s fallen for someone else, and he’s said yes. Ask him whether he thinks this might be the end of your marriage and tell him you want him to be completely honest. If he says he doesn’t want to leave the marriage, ask him why and listen to his response and see whether you find it believable.

I think, assuming he wants to stay, and can explain why in a way that you find properly convincing, then I think you need to set up some ground rules, not about how he feels, but about how it affects you. He’s made it clear he doesn’t want to stop, but it is affecting you, so if you both do want to continue, you need to find a way between you to minimize that. That might include asking him to conduct his affair in a more subtle way and definitely not mentioning her ever in your presence.

I genuinely think there are different kinds of love and that “falling in love/limerance” is a kind of wonderful rush. In our western society, we tend to think of that feeling as being a precursor to a permanent relationship. You fall in love, get married, live happily ever after.

But those things don’t have to go hand it hand. And happily ever after is rare, even more so for second marriages. Some people might conduct a love affair, knowing full well that the person they’re involved with wouldn’t suit them for life. He may be enjoying the rush, but appreciate the life you have together in a different way.

If you don’t trust him and can’t see any way to find a way forward that you can ever be happy with this situation, then I think perhaps you have to leave. But if you can discuss it with him and can find a way to trust that he isn’t going to leave, despite these feelings, and he can demonstrate enough respect for you to modify his actions so that you are not affected negatively, it might be possible to weather this. Him rubbing it in your face is actually more disrespectful than the falling (which is, in a way his own business and if he hadn’t told you and had been more subtle, wouldn’t have been a problem).

The terms of your marriage changed when you decided to have an open marriage. Now they’ve changed again. You can step out any time it’s too painful and should do that if it is. But there might still be a way through. He may not be intending to leave. Up to you whether you choose to try to weather this or not.

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