Open marriage has gone wrong 😑

[PhillyQueen]

Name change for this as previous posts may be outing.

Sex life with DH dried up completely about 8 years ago. It was never stellar but that didn’t seem particularly important to either of us . Our relationship was otherwise perfect, he is a fine person and a great dad to our (now adult) kids and we used to have sex at most weekly, then over the years went to fortnightly and monthly until it tailed off altogether. Neither of us seemed bothered and it wasn’t a big deal and I just assumed that’s what happened in long-term relationships. Life was good even if any passion was long-gone. We have both always had our own friends as well as mutual ones, we both run businesses, we were busy but always looked forward to time together.

After the sex stopped altogether, we avoided the subject for a couple of years then we had the conversation where we both agreed that we wanted to stay together as we love each other but that DH didn’t want to give up that part of his life forever and that if it wasn’t possible with me, he would like to look elsewhere and would prefer to do it with my blessing. So, good idea or not, we had an open marriage policy for a few years and it seemed to work well. It was reciprocal but I wasn’t up for it with anyone , not just him, I’ve never been very sexual. Even though he had a couple of brief affairs, nothing changed with our family life and I was happy enough knowing we could carry on as we were. All good. Not a perfect love story but a practical way of keeping things going, which is what we both wanted.

Only now things have changed. He has met someone he really likes, by his own admission even loves, and I am worried he is going to leave me and our life for her. She is younger than us and very attractive. If I were standing next to her, I would look like her grandmother. He is absolutely smitten with her and for the first time, I feel our marriage is truly in danger.

I feel that DH has violated the terms of our agreement for an open marriage and should stop seeing this woman but he has said he won’t do that, that she makes him happy, and that we agreed that we could both see other people etc. so it’s me that’s being unreasonable. Falling in love with someone else was never part of the deal I agreed to, though.

So what can I do? Grit my teeth and bear it and hope they break up? Or ask him again to stop seeing her otherwise our marriage will have to end?

3 completely wrong letters. Are you on the wine ??? grin

@MyPatronusIsACat

🤣 I know! Funnily enough, most Saturdays nights there is a wine or two, but not tonight as I’ve got to drive to Birmingham in the morning. I’m just too fast for my phone 🤔😆

We can't help who we love. It just happens. And you put him in a situation where he was at risk. Not much you can do at this stage except wait and see what happens.

Have you spoken to him about the romantic dinners, walks on the beach etc and how they weren’t part of the deal? What did he say?

In many respects I prefer that he's actually valuing the non-sexual side with this woman rather than treating her as some object. I know you said you had terms but the reality is most normal people want more than the physical act so it's sort of inevitable that he has grown to care for her. That might not be what you want to hear but you're hanging on to him in circumstances where you'll never be fully happy and yet if you divorced it would probably be so much better (whether alone or with a new partner).

Ok then, some books:

When Someone You Love Is Polyamorous: Understanding Poly People and Relationships, by Elisabeth Sheff - a super-short, easy starting point.

More than Two, by Eve Rickert and Franklin Veaux - it's long been the polyam go-to, although recently fallen out of favour due to one of the authors falling short of his own standards.

A Happy Life In An Open Relationship, by Susan Wenzel. Great especially if you're the monogamous party.

The Ethical Slut, by Janet W. Hardy and Dossie Easton. Just a very empowering book, especially for women.

Rewriting The Rules, by Meg-John Barker. It'a all about asking yourself what you want. V important at this juncture I'd say. But to be honest we all should be doing it.

Polysecure: Attachment, Trauma and Consensual Nonmonogamy
by Jessica Fern. If you'd like something a bit more theoretical and are at all interested in attachment theory. It's the best book on polyam I've read yet.

If you'd prefer videos then I highly recommend basically anything by Esther Perel, here's a couple of favourites:

Honestly, if you read/watch listen to nothing else this talk is only 20 minutes long and fucking brilliant.

She has a podcast too.

And if podcasts are your thing then www.multiamory.com/ is great - a bit American and a bit millennial, but great great content, and they've got some podcasts for those just starting out.

Anyway, aware that's a lot. Polyamory, or, consensual non-monogamy is becoming increasingly commonplace, so the amount of material around it is proliferating rapidly. I wish half of it had been there when I embarked on the journey...

At the very least it'll give you some food for thought, whatever you decide to do next.

There is a huge amount of denial coming from your posts OP. If you’re saying he’s broken the terms - then if you stay with him and he carries on then you’re basically allowing him to disrespect you and your feelings for the OW.

I can see why you may have agreed to this setup, but honestly it’s got disaster written all over it

He didn’t exactly say they were ‘romantic’ dinners but I asked where he had been with her and after being somewhat pressed into it by me, he told me places that absolutely are romantic and also some other stuff they had done like gulps underwear shopping.

I don’t know if she wants him to leave me for her, I honestly daren’t ask.

Some posters have said that your husband wants his cake and eat it. I don’t agree with this. From what you say, he has always been honest, never lied to you. When he first started to see this woman, it was simply part of your open marriage arrangement. Then he realised he had strong feelings for this woman. There is no intimacy, but just a close friendship in your marriage. He clearly needs and is thriving on more than that.

Given that you have shared a lovely relationship for a long time, End it with dignity, as friends. Let him move on with his life and you do the same.

@ElspethFlashman

I'm confused about this whole thing.

For the last 8 years, you've effectively just been pals. So basically roommates, with your own careers and your own hobbies and your own friends.....but yeah, basically pals.

There haven't been any kids in the house for a while. Your marriage is basically one of convenience. The house and the habits. Not wanting to start again. Being pals.

Why on earth would he be happy with that being the entirety of his life just because you are?

I have to agree with this, you're happy to not have sex and he wants sex, he's not done anything wrong even though it's a bit shit I admit.

I think you're flogging an already dead horse but you won't admit it.

You mention terms of agreement. Did you have rules you agreed for your open marriage? Personally l would tell him to end it or you’re done. I wouldn’t be up for playing 2nd fiddle to someone old enough to be my daughter. What is her set up? Married? Single?

A sexless marriage is unreasonable for most people myself included. I’m trying not to sound condescending but maybe you need to find someone you’re better suited to and wants the same things as you. The current set up sounds like it must be painful and self esteem crushing

Actually I'm going to pull one out of the too-long message above, because it really is bloody brilliant – whatever your circumstances.
And deserves not to be lost in my verbosity.

Please, I urge you to watch this:

Your best bet is to let him go. He may then decide it’s you he wants more, but you’ve got to accept that you really may lose in this situation.

Initiate divorce yourself, before he leaves you.

@ElspethFlashman had it spot on , the actual ‘marriage’ part of your relationship ended years ago and you’ve literally just been good friends and housemates whilst he’s been sleeping around looking for someone to be in love with . You need to separate now with some dignity and whilst you can still be friendly enough to both attend your children and Grandchildrens events .

I agree with the posters who are telling you that your 'retirement plans' don't match up. Sorry OP.

The only way to flush this out is to say "This doesn't work for me, it's not the deal we agreed to, I am unhappy that this is now 'romantic' rather than sex and you have to stop seeing her if you want our marriage to continue'.

He will give you your answer and then you will know where you stand.

Be prepared for him to choose her though. And don't do the 'pick me' dance. If he is in love with someone who is also sexually as well as romantically interested in him, you can't win.

You know, it's not the end of the world if the next few years don't turn out as you'd always imagined. Your relationship was already one of compromise however you dress it up. This might have a silver lining.

@Balonziaga

I agree with the posters who are telling you that your 'retirement plans' don't match up. Sorry OP.

The only way to flush this out is to say "This doesn't work for me, it's not the deal we agreed to, I am unhappy that this is now 'romantic' rather than sex and you have to stop seeing her if you want our marriage to continue'.

He will give you your answer and then you will know where you stand.

Be prepared for him to choose her though. And don't do the 'pick me' dance. If he is in love with someone who is also sexually as well as romantically interested in him, you can't win.

You know, it's not the end of the world if the next few years don't turn out as you'd always imagined. Your relationship was already one of compromise however you dress it up. This might have a silver lining.

This ^^^

Good luck OP

I've a couple of responses to a lot of the posters here:

1 - Ultimatums are only really a good idea if you've got nothing to lose. Sounds to me like the OP has a lot she'd like to keep.

2 - Ultimatums are no substitute for communication. Why bypass the talking that could find a better alternative than A or Z?

Sounds like you've been together a long time OP, and care for each other. It doesn't strike me that an ultimatum honours that.

I'm really sorry to read your story.

Sounds to me as though she makes him feel young and sexy again - but it's not real, she's not washing his pants.

I hope you can find a way of either living with it, or living without him.

Maybe he washes his own pants and wants to carry on doing so.

People say weird stuff.

This is, essentially, the plot of Liaisons Dangereuses. It’s an obvious, although not inevitable, potential outcome to your agreement.

@Salome61

I'm really sorry to read your story.

Sounds to me as though she makes him feel young and sexy again - but it's not real, she's not washing his pants.

I hope you can find a way of either living with it, or living without him.

Not all women by default wash the pants of their partners you know! Men are perfectly capable of putting a wash on. Their Very Important Penis doesn't get in the way of that.

@PhillyQueen - this is obviously not ideal.
But I do think most open marriages run into issues with unexpected feelings. It hurts and it’s unfair on the other partner - but I don’t think humans can help developing some attachment to their sexual partners.

You can obviously leave as many here advise. But most people who say that don’t really believe (or understand) open marriages.

If I were to look at is as an uninvolved observer - i’d say, try to stay calm and most likely this will blow over. He doesn’t want to divorce. Neither do you.
An ultimatum to leave her may actually backfire and push them closer together.
As is it - it doesn’t appear that she wants anything more than what they have. She is happy with a part time ‘affair’ - you said she has a partner?
Given that they have nearly 20 years age difference - there is a natural limit to this relationship. He will not continue looking years younger for that much longer and she’ll most likely move on to another OM.

However - given that you are struggling with this - you and your H need to start communicating at a different level.

He needs to understand that you feel threatened and hurt. And you need to work though your fears.
If you both want to preserve this marriage, both would need to find some compromise -
where he, possibly, cuts down on the more ‘romantic’ interactions. And you slowly learn to relax.

He has done absolutely nothing wrong. You hoped that you could split off the sex element of the relationship and subcontract it to other women, and retain the companionship - and thus keep the marriage alive. Few would say that is a strategy likely to succeed - and so it has proved. Most of us (yes, even men) want companionship, sex and connection in a single package. Let him go gracefully. He can be happy, and you can move forward with whatever makes you happy.

[quote MMmomDD]@PhillyQueen - this is obviously not ideal.
But I do think most open marriages run into issues with unexpected feelings. It hurts and it’s unfair on the other partner - but I don’t think humans can help developing some attachment to their sexual partners.

You can obviously leave as many here advise. But most people who say that don’t really believe (or understand) open marriages.

If I were to look at is as an uninvolved observer - i’d say, try to stay calm and most likely this will blow over. He doesn’t want to divorce. Neither do you.
An ultimatum to leave her may actually backfire and push them closer together.
As is it - it doesn’t appear that she wants anything more than what they have. She is happy with a part time ‘affair’ - you said she has a partner?
Given that they have nearly 20 years age difference - there is a natural limit to this relationship. He will not continue looking years younger for that much longer and she’ll most likely move on to another OM.

However - given that you are struggling with this - you and your H need to start communicating at a different level.

He needs to understand that you feel threatened and hurt. And you need to work though your fears.
If you both want to preserve this marriage, both would need to find some compromise -
where he, possibly, cuts down on the more ‘romantic’ interactions. And you slowly learn to relax.[/quote]
^^ This.

This is heartbreaking, I'm sure the reasons you stopped wanting sex were very varied and not quite so simple as you just lost your sex drive.

Were there other factors, ill health, resentment initially with him having previous affairs when the arrangement was not in place, your confidence must have been shot through that. Did he erode your confidence to the point you longer felt desirable?

There are many couples who stay together without a sex life, the ones who are happy are the ones where it has been a mutual decision, not all older men want a sex life due to other factors which younger people rarely think of.

No doubt this will play out of it's own accord and it seems you are willing to hope for the best. Are you the same age as your husband?

I'm not going to push you for going all guns blazing out of the marriage but I would say it may be helpful to discuss your feelings to a threapist, there is great sadness in your voice and this episode of him being frank and open in his feeling towards this ow must be devastating.

He's infatuated and may loose his head but I think in your position keeping reigns over the financials would be wise, some men can be decieved by younger models who can be quite out for themselves.

Protect the kids inheritance. At this time of life there is more to life than, romantic unicorns, sexual gratification and starting again in the cattle market, it's very daunting but not impossible to meet a kindred spirit.

I wish I could give an answer to your problem but what I will say is how many of the younger posters do not realise that this is more common than you think.