Open marriage has gone wrong 😑

[PhillyQueen]

Name change for this as previous posts may be outing.

Sex life with DH dried up completely about 8 years ago. It was never stellar but that didn’t seem particularly important to either of us . Our relationship was otherwise perfect, he is a fine person and a great dad to our (now adult) kids and we used to have sex at most weekly, then over the years went to fortnightly and monthly until it tailed off altogether. Neither of us seemed bothered and it wasn’t a big deal and I just assumed that’s what happened in long-term relationships. Life was good even if any passion was long-gone. We have both always had our own friends as well as mutual ones, we both run businesses, we were busy but always looked forward to time together.

After the sex stopped altogether, we avoided the subject for a couple of years then we had the conversation where we both agreed that we wanted to stay together as we love each other but that DH didn’t want to give up that part of his life forever and that if it wasn’t possible with me, he would like to look elsewhere and would prefer to do it with my blessing. So, good idea or not, we had an open marriage policy for a few years and it seemed to work well. It was reciprocal but I wasn’t up for it with anyone , not just him, I’ve never been very sexual. Even though he had a couple of brief affairs, nothing changed with our family life and I was happy enough knowing we could carry on as we were. All good. Not a perfect love story but a practical way of keeping things going, which is what we both wanted.

Only now things have changed. He has met someone he really likes, by his own admission even loves, and I am worried he is going to leave me and our life for her. She is younger than us and very attractive. If I were standing next to her, I would look like her grandmother. He is absolutely smitten with her and for the first time, I feel our marriage is truly in danger.

I feel that DH has violated the terms of our agreement for an open marriage and should stop seeing this woman but he has said he won’t do that, that she makes him happy, and that we agreed that we could both see other people etc. so it’s me that’s being unreasonable. Falling in love with someone else was never part of the deal I agreed to, though.

So what can I do? Grit my teeth and bear it and hope they break up? Or ask him again to stop seeing her otherwise our marriage will have to end?

[quote lilmishap]@PhillyQueen I hope you met up with your best mate to get some IRL support

@TheGirlCat This is a public forum and the OP has been very reserved about ALL feelings, her own as well as his. it doesn't mean she's a fucking Sociopath.
Losing interest in sex was not done to punish or control him if she thought they were both on the same page.
What finally chinked her "icy exterior"(that you may have just made up) was her husband telling her he was falling in love with someone else.
OP seems strangely unaffected by any 'ego damage' caused by her husband parading this OW in front of their friends including her best friends husband. If her ego was in play she would be fucking livid about that and she isn't because she is still reeling from this sudden change in her relationship with her husband of forty years.

But nice to know you think compassion is what a wife should feel for her husband when she discovers he is having a full blown affair and making no effort to be discreet or showing any consideration for her feelings.

You have issues.[/quote]
@lilmishap Perhaps I do have issues because I have had personal experience with someone with sociopathic and sadistic tendencies and because of my experience, I can see this for what it is. Btw you are wrong, livid is not always there, what is clear though is there wounded pride in the OP. I never said she should be compassionate that her husband is having a full blown affair. I said compassion for her rejecting her husband for years, and for which she has made no effort to show any consideration for his feelings, so why should it be all one way? It's hypocrisy. If this was reversed, and it was an AIBU that a woman said her husband has rejected her, refusing all affection and love, and suggested she have sex with other men, she comes on and explains she has feelings for one of the men she slept with in her open marriage, would she be disparaged? No, she wouldn't. She would receive empathy and sympathy. Yet this is absent and ironically, people are feeling for the one who deliberately withheld any affection. She is far from reserved. She is revelling in this.

I am circumspect to explain my situation, maybe one day I will start a thread (suffice it to say I am not the OW more like a child of and Stately Homes threads help me), but if you've known a sadist and sociopath, this sticks out like dogs balls. It is classic. I can see straight through the OP (who by their own admission sits back, reads every post and refuses to add or shine any extra light and responds to only around 3% which are usually positive posts). That is the point. I can see straight through the OP, you can't. That's not my fault or your fault but it is what it is.

@TheGirlCat. But it is not a thread about your issues: it's a thread about the OP's. You are not ‘able to see straight through her’ at all. As the above PP points out, all she’s given you are a few lines of text to go on. What you are doing is classic projection. Your own unfortunate experiences are causing your interpretations of these posts to be inconsistent with their content. You’ve already called OP a sadist and a sociopath, and me an abuser and a ‘gaslighter’ (you might, btw, want to look up the accurate definition of this term). In the gentlest way possible, even you must know that isn’t a rational response to a stranger’s thread on the internet.

This is not an attempt to be patronising, but a genuine effort to help. I hope you will set up your own thread to get some insight and advice on these issues; or, better still, unpick them with the help of a professional. MN is for the most part sympathetic and informative in relation to victims of abuse, albeit there are (sadly) often apologists for male abuse of women bobbing up on these threads. But for the most part they are insightful and supportive.

As for seeing straight through these issues because you’ve been abused at the hands of a sociopath, I’m very sorry that you should have had such an experience. But sometimes that can skew our judgement, rather than enabling a clear-sighted vision. One thing that enabled me to achieve this was EMDR therapy for cPTSD. Why I have cPTSD is not a topic for this thread, but suffice it to say, I might understand more than you’d think. I hope you manage to get some real life and online support. I genuinely wish you luck.

Not posting again on this point: I don’t want to be responsible for derailing OP’s thread, which is now nearly full.

Bloody hell. Massive and really, really weird leap to "sociopath".

There are probably loads of couples, both happily and unhappily married, who aren't having sex. And surely this is particularly unsurprising when the couple are in their sixties. Without the focus on OP's 'arrangement' this would simply be that sad story which is as old as the hills: husband replaces wife with younger model. And OP would not be getting all this flak. Yes, I do believe she is in denial about the cruelty of her husband's behaviour. He is indeed humiliating/making a fool out of her. But you cannot expect someone to announce game over just like that after FORTY YEARS of happy marriage. I wonder if OP herself put the emphasis on their arrangement because she is wondering if, were it not for it, this affair would never have happened. Feel sorry for her because it's as if she is getting punished for attempting to address the no sex elephant in the room.

I said compassion for her rejecting her husband for years, and for which she has made no effort to show any consideration for his feelings, so why should it be all one way?

But what the OP actually said is
we used to have sex at most weekly, then over the years went to fortnightly and monthly until it tailed off altogether. Neither of us seemed bothered and it wasn’t a big deal and I just assumed that’s what happened in long-term relationships

They both reacted in the exact same way to a waning sex life...by ignoring the issue.

It wasn't the case that they were using sex as a weapon against each other and neither was it one rejecting the other.

The OP believed they were both content until she was told different at which point she went above and beyond to try and improve her DHs happiness by agreeing to this.

He appears to have done sweet F.A to improve his wifes happiness.

Can you really not see that?

I th

Okay then. OP, the more you post the more I think you two would benefit from couples counselling to see if you can make this marriage work or if an amicable split is best. To make it work, you will both need to change, rather than sticking your head in the sand and hoping it will magically fix itself. With an amicable split you may get the best of both worlds - remain friends with the father of your children, but move on to another life free of anxiety about what he's up to. I hope you can talk to someone IRL.

TheGirlCat - I suggest you look up observation bias. It might help explain to you why you see sociopathic behaviour everywhere, whether or not it's actually there.

I’m sorry but this was to be expected? Sec always brings attachments sooner or later. It should have brought attachments to you and it’s now brought attachments to someone else.

This is the time for a frank conversation. Nothing held back conversation, if not your marriage will be over

But he is still married to me and doesn’t want that to change. That is something and I am holding onto that

This whole thing is the most utterly pathetic thing I have ever read on here.
Op has made her bed and now needs to lie in it.

She doesn't want anything to change.

End of story 🤷

@JasonMomoasgirlfriend

But he is still married to me and doesn’t want that to change. That is something and I am holding onto that

This whole thing is the most utterly pathetic thing I have ever read on here.
Op has made her bed and now needs to lie in it.

She doesn't want anything to change.

End of story 🤷

Pathetic not to want to throw a 40 year marriage away? Seriously?

@MarieIVanArkleStinks

On a cursory read this has every appearance of a man who wants to have his cake, eat it, and make trifle out of it as well, while his wife suffers agonies over the situation. The reality emerging from OP's many updates is far more complex and extremely painful and sad.

OP: I'm firmly with the [almost] consensus of the thread that no woman should ever have sex she doesn't want. The comments that you should force yourself into this through therapy are repulsive and Victorian. If you never want sex again, it's your body and you absolutely have the right to decide. Equally, your DH doesn't want celibacy for the remainder of his days. That's just as understandable.

You decided on a solution; it hasn't worked. The outcome of his eventually falling for someone else was sadly probably always inevitable.

The marriage is at an impasse. One party will be perpetually unhappy. Either his relationship 'fizzles out' and he returns to celibacy, and is thus back to his original miserable position, or it flourishes, in which case he's happy and you are the one left bereft.

At present, either the two of you are determined to stay married in these untenable circumstances or he's comforting you by telling you want you want to hear. Either way, I think couples counselling or therapy is worth a shot. NOT to coerce you into sex you don't want, but to unpick a horribly messy situation, the underlying reasons for this, and to lay cards on the table where both of you state exactly what you want out of this marriage. It may be that a compromise can be reached somewhere. Penetration might be impossible for you to contemplate but there are other forms of intimacy and closeness. This would need exploring if you're to have a chance.

If the marriage limps on under the impasse it's now at, it's unrealistic to suspect it will survive.

Mumsnet can't answer how you deal with your feelings in tolerating the new relationship. It's an unreasonable and wholly unrealistic request. Only you and your husband can work your way through this, and it will likely take a good deal of work.

If the impasse remains you might both decide that the best thing all round would be to agree to an amicable separation. But if you both want your marriage to survive - and it seems you both do - continuing with an untenable, unhappy situation without taking decisive steps to address it is probably only going to end one way.

Good post.

OP I wish you all the best

The girl cat may have a point. I had considered it myself but decided against mentioning it here. I was married to somebody who was constantly gaslighting me and generally making me feel bad about myself. When it go unbearable I divorced him, but after steadying myself and analysing situations, I realised that he enjoyed doing it and was always emphasising things that were particularly upsetting me. He enjoyed the power it gave him I think, and it was his special way of hurting me. In some way it was 'revenge' for I knew not what. I can't find the right words to describe it but I knew it , and I did wonder if an element of it is at play here.

@Blossomtoes yep. What a "marriage"

"In some way it was 'revenge' for I knew not what. I can't find the right words to describe it but I knew it , and I did wonder if an element of it is at play here."

I agree - I think there's something almost vengeful - kind of "gloves off" - in the way the H is conducting his liaison (calling her girlfriend, buying underwear with her, allowing her to meet friends, taking her to a favourite family restaurant where surely at least the waiters wondered what was going on). Even understanding his desire to look elsewhere for sex, this conduct seems almost pathological.

[quote JasonMomoasgirlfriend]@Blossomtoes yep. What a "marriage"[/quote]
There’s more to a marriage than sex.

@MarieIVanArkleStinks whilst what you've said may theoretically have merit, the ship has already sailed and the time to have embarked on counselling should have been before the OP told her husband he was free to find sex elsewhere. The situation is akin to trying to take the milk out the cappuccino - it's too late.

What I can't fathom is how there seems to be insufficient acknowledgement of the husband as a sentient being, who has been told one thing, and then when he goes off and does it, will now feel motivation to engage in couples counselling. Only on MN.

There’s more to a marriage than sex

it's an important building block, unless both people agree it isn't needed, which is not the case here.

or revenge on her part - not letting him go and constantly questioning him about every aspect of his liaison even though she appears to not want a satisfying relationship with him herself but wants to ensure he doesn't get it with anybody else either.

@TheGirlCat

I understand your frustration as with all of the posters we have limited information. I too on this thread have been accused of filling in the blanks to make sense of it.

I have been accused of saying her husband has narcissistic tendancies, you believe op is a sociapath. The truth is we know nothing of their marriage up to this point and what led to this unimaginable situation for most people.

Maybe op has 'worn the trousers' throughout their marriage and he is exacting revenge but what we do know is if this is a case of the 'tables turning' then he is still being remarkably cruel at the moment.

It's true that projection massively clouds our judgement.

All I know is the op's husband seems to be riding high at the moment and rather than softening the hurt she may feel, he is exacerbating it.

Op herself said about the shopping trip, "it was because I asked", I still feel there was no need for him to say it was for underwear. A highly personal experience for lovers in love.

How someone behaves when they have betrayed you (and he did betray their agreement) tells you an awful lot about someones true nature, whether they are kind, whether they are capable of empathy, putting yourself in their shoes.

Regardless of what brought them here, if it is revenge then he's doing an excellent job of finishing the job off.

OP seems to have cut off the intimacy in the marriage, and then banned DH from seeking it elsewhere. He's allowed to have sex, but it has to be emotionless and anonymous. No feelings, no passion. Seems rather cruel.

I’m not sure what I was supposed to answer or address that I didn’t but I suppose the crux of it is that I don’t think after a relationship spanning decades and at our age, our situation is all that uncommon. It certainly isn’t in my friendship group. Is it ideal? Absolutely not.

I didn’t “order” DH to have casual sex, this is what he came to me with and I agreed. Had he come to me and said he wanted an out-and-out affair, I would have probably agreed to that too. I wanted to save my marriage and I still do. Maybe I won’t be able to, I do acknowledge that, but I think it’s too soon to give up. He is infatuated with OW but really, they barely know one another really. If we are still here in a few months then yes, it will be time to think again. but I’m not throwing the towel in on this just yet.

OP I'm sorry to say but it was too late to save your marriage when your DH openly told you he wouldn't stop seeing his 'girlfriend' but wouldn't leave you either.
He isn't going to leave you if he'll take a financial hit from it as long as you're going to let him have a relationship with this other one and be so accepting of it.
Don't you want someone who only thinks of you? Don't you want a man whose loyalties won't be confused on birthdays and Christmas? Does he spend them with you, or the OW? Who does he invite to his friends parties, future weddings etc.

Can I reiterate that neither of us will take much of a financial hit if we seperated/divorced. This isn’t my motivation for either of us.

Philly you seem to be good at talking openly with him.
You need to discuss how threatened you feel and what needs to happen for the marriage to work, for both of you.

Separating after 40 years must feel terrifying but for this to last you need to work together. You can't sit back and let him walk all over you and hurt you the way he is.

Is this type of situation accepted in your friendship group?