Open marriage has gone wrong 😑

[PhillyQueen]

Name change for this as previous posts may be outing.

Sex life with DH dried up completely about 8 years ago. It was never stellar but that didn’t seem particularly important to either of us . Our relationship was otherwise perfect, he is a fine person and a great dad to our (now adult) kids and we used to have sex at most weekly, then over the years went to fortnightly and monthly until it tailed off altogether. Neither of us seemed bothered and it wasn’t a big deal and I just assumed that’s what happened in long-term relationships. Life was good even if any passion was long-gone. We have both always had our own friends as well as mutual ones, we both run businesses, we were busy but always looked forward to time together.

After the sex stopped altogether, we avoided the subject for a couple of years then we had the conversation where we both agreed that we wanted to stay together as we love each other but that DH didn’t want to give up that part of his life forever and that if it wasn’t possible with me, he would like to look elsewhere and would prefer to do it with my blessing. So, good idea or not, we had an open marriage policy for a few years and it seemed to work well. It was reciprocal but I wasn’t up for it with anyone , not just him, I’ve never been very sexual. Even though he had a couple of brief affairs, nothing changed with our family life and I was happy enough knowing we could carry on as we were. All good. Not a perfect love story but a practical way of keeping things going, which is what we both wanted.

Only now things have changed. He has met someone he really likes, by his own admission even loves, and I am worried he is going to leave me and our life for her. She is younger than us and very attractive. If I were standing next to her, I would look like her grandmother. He is absolutely smitten with her and for the first time, I feel our marriage is truly in danger.

I feel that DH has violated the terms of our agreement for an open marriage and should stop seeing this woman but he has said he won’t do that, that she makes him happy, and that we agreed that we could both see other people etc. so it’s me that’s being unreasonable. Falling in love with someone else was never part of the deal I agreed to, though.

So what can I do? Grit my teeth and bear it and hope they break up? Or ask him again to stop seeing her otherwise our marriage will have to end?

H and OW may eventually want more permanency.

@PhillyQueen
The way I see it (and this is just my personal view, feel free to disagree with it) is that ANY relationship, be it a marriage or a friendship, should be built on mutual trust and respect for one another if it is going to work.

From your posts, it is clear that you love your husband, but this situation is obviously making you unhappy. Can you honestly say that you trust and respect him at this point? Or that you feel that he trusts and respects you?

I’m not going to make suggestions as to how you should deal with this, that isn’t my place, but please consider these things before you decide how you are going to handle this situation.

I can see that this is very difficult for you, and I hope that you can find a way through that is mutually acceptable to you both.

“From your posts, it is clear that you love your husband, but this situation is obviously making you unhappy. Can you honestly say that you trust and respect him at this point? Or that you feel that he trusts and respects you?”

This. I’ve had a lot of sympathy with your DH but have felt a bit sick on your behalf since you’ve said he’s been lingerie shopping with her, introduced her to friends and taken her to a favourite family restaurant where, if nothing else, the waiters must have wondered what was going on. HE’S MAKING A FOOL OF YOU.

He’s behaving in ways which mean they’re bound to be found out if they haven’t been yet. You haven’t said whether or not her H knows but it’s hard to imagine he’s happy with this carry-on either. Neither your H or the OW seem to give a shit about what they’re doing to their marriages. Your H’s behaviour is the behaviour of a man who doesn’t give a shit about you.

His behaviour is so blatant that it’s as if he doesn’t care about you at all or is even angry with you and trying to have some kind of revenge.

Yrs love shouldnt be the deciing factor if the situation erodes your self worth.
How could it not. Itd be like gaslighting to stay in this situation with a husband whose opinion you have always valued and considered. And now he is communicating to you that you are just :"there". Just background.
That is not a message you want to stick around long enough to internalise.

Greeting cards can really bring it home as a pp said. Different circs but my x was abusive and i always went for a blank card.
Once at a neigbours house, i saw a ten year anniversary card that said something like "best ten years of my life!" I knew i could only say the opposite. Their child, when asked what her mums name was by a teaching assistant said "my mums name is ruthie love". That was so poignant for me. I knew i could create more love for my dc in a home without my x. Funny the things that really touch you and make you think.

@AnnieSnap

I think it’s clear now that our comments are irrelevant to the OP. Her responses show no willingness to reflect. Her mind is made-up!

Agreed. Even in her latest posts she never once mentions her husband's feelings, if she feels guilty from making him feel unloved, if she feels guilty at all for not being with him intimately, if she feels bad for rejecting him. She says she reads all our posts, but never once has she actually replied to any of the pointed questions her comments. She truly comes across as a clinical sociopath with no feelings of remorse or awareness or compassion at all.

I don't think you are in any position to diagnose the Op @TheGirlCat That is unnecessarily unkind and belligerent post.

I said she 'comes across' as, @Notonthestairs . And she does.

She was almost obsessed with the fact that they were married and they would stay married no matter what. I was brought up with this and it affected my attitude to my thoroughly miserable first marriage and I put up with a whole load of rubbish that I didn't need to. My father died a few years ago now and I have spent a lot of time with my mum ; we are friends as well as mother and daughter. She is 82. Over the first lockdown I was the only person she really saw as we wanted to avoid covid so we spent an awful lot of time talking about her life and the things she had realised from being a widow for 4 years. The thing that sticks in my mind most is the day when she suddenly looked up at me and said " Why did I do that . I could have had a life of my own without your father but I stayed .I wasted all those years". Op please don't be my mum.

I echo this. My mum is nearing 80 years old and has been married since she was 24. She doesn't even like my dad, let alone love him. She stays with him out of habit and because she feels sorry for him. I also think there are elements of manipulation on his part. She's afraid to leave yet for anyone watching it's clear that staying is worse. You don't have to stay with a man out of habit. Honestly, my mum would have been so much happier being single. My dad is never going to be a happy person whatever anyone does.

I think there is an element in sadism in this. Yes the OP would be, you would think, happier out of all this. But she has indicated she would rather DH's happiness fizzle out, and he stays with her in a sexless marriage and unhappy. She has determined she will never let him go, no matter what, "at all costs". She seems sadistic and controlling and even enjoying the thought of her DH staying with her being miserable and he splits with the woman who makes him feel alive atm. She gets a certain sadistic enjoyment out of this. That's her enjoyment in it.

My mother is a widow now at 84. She spent her whole married life trapped and resentful. She stayed because she lacked the financial means to support herself in the early years. Later on she just developed her own life and interests . They did have happy times , but all she felt when he died was relief. So very sad. The OP does say she loves her husband , but they don’t seem to be on the same page at all.

[quote dryasaboner]@FWBNC how do you figure that one out? I would almost guarantee he would rather leave and start a new life with the woman he has fallen in love with but with OP constantly on at him about not wanting to divorce he feels indebted. He was miserable with no sex for years. The OPs solution was to leave him open to getting close emotionally to another woman and that's exactly what's happened. Now he suddenly finds actually you really can have it all- a mutually fulfilling relationship with sex romance and happiness [/quote]
Because right now he's eating his cake, saving a bit for later on & freezing some!

He has told the OP he isn't going to stop seeing his girlfriend, HE doesn't want out the marriage & as far as he is concerned he feels secure in the OP, not kicking him out.

There's much more to a long marriage, especially with adult children & grandchildren then just your intimate relationship. He (apparently) doesn't want/isn't ready to give up the family side of his life, having the adult children & grandchildren around for Sunday lunch,celebrating birthdays, Christmas as a family AND being Dad - family Dad, not Dad who left Mum for someone else.

Maybe he can see getting old together with his wife & family, but not with his younger Gf.

@dryasaboner

Sounds to me like the OP also wants her cake, to eat it too, and to freeze it for later, as well. She doesn't care about how her husband feels, she doesn't care if her marriage is in name only, as long as she keeps the title no matter what it takes, no matter what the costs. She doesn't want DH to be happy with someone, she'd rather he break up with his partner and be miserable with her in a sexless marriage, JUST so she can be the 'winner'. That's the irony to me, she is the one who seems to want it all her own way and want her cake and eat it. So I find it ironic people accusing the DH of that, when by her own admissions, that is exactly what she she wants.

Maybe he can see getting old together with his wife & family, but not with his younger Gf.

Well if he is using the OP good on him, after all she has been using him for years without any regard at all for his feelings. What's good for the goose. Normally I would not cheer on a DH who is as blatant about it as this. But I think what gets me is the absence of any remorse in the OP's posts, an absolute refusal of any remorse, any self reflection, any introspection of how her actions created this, and her even admitting she reads all the posts yet still refuses to acknowledge this is particularly galling to me. So yes, I do hope the DH uses her like this and it's only her pride that is making her annoyed at his blatant behaviour, not love. So her lack of any care or compassion or feelings for him over the years lead me to say she has blatantly used him, so perhaps she deserves to experience this blow to her pride with him flaunting his partner etc. Something finally gets under her skin hey? Good on him (and I can't believe I would EVER say something like that about a man having an affair grrr!). She deserves to feel it on the other foot. If she even posted once saying she does feel bad about how she's treated him and rejected him, I truly think my attitude would be very different indeed. It's her sadistic, cruel and compassionless attitude that has me doing the unthinkable and cheering him on.

@TheGirlCat

I disagree with you & I think your posts are nasty.

[quote FWBNC]@TheGirlCat

I disagree with you & I think your posts are nasty.[/quote]
You can think what you like @FWBNC but I see through the OP. I have had experience with people like her, and I see through her in a way you clearly can't. I think your posts are nasty but gullible and naive.

@TheGirlCat

Sounds to me like the OP also wants her cake, to eat it too, and to freeze it for later, as well. She doesn't care about how her husband feels, she doesn't care if her marriage is in name only, as long as she keeps the title no matter what it takes, no matter what the costs. She doesn't want DH to be happy with someone, she'd rather he break up with his partner and be miserable with her in a sexless marriage, JUST so she can be the 'winner'. That's the irony to me, she is the one who seems to want it all her own way and want her cake and eat it. So I find it ironic people accusing the DH of that, when by her own admissions, that is exactly what she she wants.

I agree with this. To be fair on OPS DH if she was having sex with him perhaps OW wouldn't be an actual GF right now.

It's interesting that OP is so confident that nobody else knows about OW I wouldn't be surprised if a few people know about OW mutual circle and going to well known family restaurants.... and nobody knows of OW?

Pull the other one.

OP is making it harder than it needs to be for herself I hope she takes these comments on board

@TheGirlCat

I think there is an element in sadism in this. Yes the OP would be, you would think, happier out of all this. But she has indicated she would rather DH's happiness fizzle out, and he stays with her in a sexless marriage and unhappy. She has determined she will never let him go, no matter what, "at all costs". She seems sadistic and controlling and even enjoying the thought of her DH staying with her being miserable and he splits with the woman who makes him feel alive atm. She gets a certain sadistic enjoyment out of this. That's her enjoyment in it.

You are getting seriously inventive now, to the point that it's beginning to look ridiculous. If she's guilty of anything it's masochism, as given the actual content of her posts (not what you've projected onto them) it's clear the woman is torturing herself. She's far from happy with the situation, much less getting off on it.

I haven't been the most sympathetic of posters on this thread. I do see it as 'sad', but certainly believe @daisychain01 is onto something when she suggests people make their own heaven or hell, and that the pain OP is in is entirely self-inflicted. This is undeniably true. But the pain is nonetheless clear; it shines through in every update.

Calling the OP a sadist and psychopath is gratuitous, and implies a level of insight into this woman's motives that not one person on this thread can claim to possess. It doesn't reflect on the OP. But it does say a great deal about you.

@MarieIVanArkleStinks I think you simply aren't able to see what is right there. I see no 'pain', I see a wounded pride. There is no emotion, no love, nothing in her posts. She expresses no empathy; none for her husband. Even countless others apart from me commented on your lack of sympathy or compassion from her husband. You make the mistake of confusing arrogance and wounded pride for 'pain'. With pain comes compassion and empathy, there is no compassion, no empathy, no self awareness in the OP's posts. She exudes an almost sadistic and sociopathic exterior. So I am presuming you are being inventive yourself and inventing pain when all I can see is wounded pride. NOT ONCE has she, despite admitting she is sitting here reading our posts, said how she feels about her rejection of her husband and his feelings.

Now, he is parading his new partner around town, and something finally chinked into her icy exterior. Wounded pride. No devastation. Even in it's wake, a determination - at all costs - to "win".

I think your lack of ability to read this situation and your subsequent admonishing me of calling it for what it is, says a great deal about you. Or perhaps you simply haven't had the misfortune to come across a sadist and sociopath in your life. Lucky you. However one read of AIBU and Relationships will show that the OP is quite common. And you have no right to abuse those like myself for calling out home truths and telling it like it is.

*your lack of sympathy or compassion from her husband

should be her lack of sympathy or compassion for her husband

And you have no right to abuse those like myself for calling out home truths and telling it like it is.

I have not abused anyone. Anyone else reading this thread can read my PP above and clearly see this.

You're now going so far as to invent a fantasy background for me, in that you've taken it upon yourself to write up what you think is my prior experience or otherwise with sociopaths.

There's a very evident problem in your posts with inventiveness, and in the claim that I've been abusive, mendacity as well.

I recommend taking up fan-fiction.

@MarieIVanArkleStinks

And you have no right to abuse those like myself for calling out home truths and telling it like it is.

I have not abused anyone. Anyone else reading this thread can read my PP above and clearly see this.

You're now going so far as to invent a fantasy background for me, in that you've taken it upon yourself to write up what you think is my prior experience or otherwise with sociopaths.

There's a very evident problem in your posts with inventiveness, and in the claim that I've been abusive, mendacity as well.

I recommend taking up fan-fiction.

I never said you had no experience.

The only one inventing narratives is you, and your gaslighting with all your terms that describe what you've been doing, speaks volumes about you. I suggest you take a hard look at yourself before coming on to derail and gaslight any further.

[quote MMmomDD]@PhillyQueen

I am not sure you will get much advice that is helpful for you here. Partially it’s because of the way you phrased you post. But also because you are in a non-traditional setup and most people can’t relate to it.

To me it seems that you issue stems from your open marriage veering into poly-amory space. And you struggling with it.
In parallel - I also think you and your H went into the open marriage space without proper understanding of boundaries, or at least without discussing of what ifs.

I think that unless you two reconnect and communicate better you will end up quite unhappy and resentful. And it seems that your H either doesn’t understand it, or doesn’t care. (Hoping it’s the former)
It also seems that you have a dynamic where your voice doesn’t carry the same weight as his. So - he can refer to the past agreements of ‘no questions asked’ - and you for some reason can’t envoke ‘but we agreed it was only sex, not a parallel relationship’… Why do you think that is?

The positive here is that he doesn’t seem to want to end a relationship. He probably realised himself that there is only a short window of time where a much younger woman woeful find him attractive. But the upheaval of divorce isn’t appealing to him.
Why not use that to your advantage, OP?

Tell him your relationship needs a bit of ‘tune up’. Find a good relationship counsellor and try to use the sessions to convey your feelings and fears. I do think your H actually loves you, but you are in this non-traditional arrangement that is tricky. He needs to find a way to make sure you do not continuously fear you’ll lose him to that other woman.[/quote]
This earlier comment with bells on - very spot on.

Right now Op you have a choice in what to do now - but you can't simply do nothing, and just hope the relationship with OW 'fizzles out' or you may find it is actually YOUR relationship with your DH that fizzles out.

I don't know much about polyamory relationships, but it seems that an important aspect of this is having very set and clear boundaries AND making sure you both stick to them. Your DH has not set a great precedent in breaking the original boundaries - and it is not surprising you are in emotional turmoil.

Rather than thinking about what others think (your kids, your friends, OW) - perhaps have a good think about what YOU want out of this. YourDH has been very clear about what he wants - but you don't have to accept it, and if you do - you need to be 100% sure whether you re happy with it and all the consequences that come with it. A trained counsellor (preferably with polyamory experience), can help you work through it.

@PhillyQueen I hope you met up with your best mate to get some IRL support

@TheGirlCat This is a public forum and the OP has been very reserved about ALL feelings, her own as well as his. it doesn't mean she's a fucking Sociopath.
Losing interest in sex was not done to punish or control him if she thought they were both on the same page.
What finally chinked her "icy exterior"(that you may have just made up) was her husband telling her he was falling in love with someone else.
OP seems strangely unaffected by any 'ego damage' caused by her husband parading this OW in front of their friends including her best friends husband. If her ego was in play she would be fucking livid about that and she isn't because she is still reeling from this sudden change in her relationship with her husband of forty years.

But nice to know you think compassion is what a wife should feel for her husband when she discovers he is having a full blown affair and making no effort to be discreet or showing any consideration for her feelings.

You have issues.