Open marriage has gone wrong 😑

[PhillyQueen]

Name change for this as previous posts may be outing.

Sex life with DH dried up completely about 8 years ago. It was never stellar but that didn’t seem particularly important to either of us . Our relationship was otherwise perfect, he is a fine person and a great dad to our (now adult) kids and we used to have sex at most weekly, then over the years went to fortnightly and monthly until it tailed off altogether. Neither of us seemed bothered and it wasn’t a big deal and I just assumed that’s what happened in long-term relationships. Life was good even if any passion was long-gone. We have both always had our own friends as well as mutual ones, we both run businesses, we were busy but always looked forward to time together.

After the sex stopped altogether, we avoided the subject for a couple of years then we had the conversation where we both agreed that we wanted to stay together as we love each other but that DH didn’t want to give up that part of his life forever and that if it wasn’t possible with me, he would like to look elsewhere and would prefer to do it with my blessing. So, good idea or not, we had an open marriage policy for a few years and it seemed to work well. It was reciprocal but I wasn’t up for it with anyone , not just him, I’ve never been very sexual. Even though he had a couple of brief affairs, nothing changed with our family life and I was happy enough knowing we could carry on as we were. All good. Not a perfect love story but a practical way of keeping things going, which is what we both wanted.

Only now things have changed. He has met someone he really likes, by his own admission even loves, and I am worried he is going to leave me and our life for her. She is younger than us and very attractive. If I were standing next to her, I would look like her grandmother. He is absolutely smitten with her and for the first time, I feel our marriage is truly in danger.

I feel that DH has violated the terms of our agreement for an open marriage and should stop seeing this woman but he has said he won’t do that, that she makes him happy, and that we agreed that we could both see other people etc. so it’s me that’s being unreasonable. Falling in love with someone else was never part of the deal I agreed to, though.

So what can I do? Grit my teeth and bear it and hope they break up? Or ask him again to stop seeing her otherwise our marriage will have to end?

@PhillyQueen let the man go! Your marriage ended when the sex stopped. You can’t have your cake and eat it (being happy to not have sex for years, but wanting your DH (who isn’t happy) to stay with you). Most people don’t want to stay in sexless marriages.

You are just housemates.

@AngelinaFibres your exH left you and his young DC for a 17yo school girl? That is so creepy.

@Blackbird2020

It's an 'I'm not going to let him go no matter what and I'll make him pay if he tries to leave me!' attitude.

Did you guys read the OP’s comments? He doesn’t want to leave her! And where has she said she’ll make him pay?!

She’s on here asking for advice about how to handle her feelings given this sudden change of direction with the no-strings sex arrangement they previously had.

Yes, I have, however I wonder how many on here defending her have. Many men say they don't want to leave, sometimes it's out of obligation. But it's clear he has been unhappy in the marriage and felt quite alone, and none of her posts show any awareness of this or any concern for him. She has said "it will cost him" if he leaves her. Did you not read that?

She suggested he had sex with random women, forgetting he is a human being and quite obviously associates intimacy and emotional bonding with sex. And now is aghast he emotionally connected with a woman. Which is what he wanted all along and wasn't receiving from her. Now she wonders how this happened, as if he meant to fall in love with someone he emotionally bonded with. As if he deliberately did this and cheated on her, and it's now all his fault. What gets me is the cold and clinical way she comes across, no self awareness of her part. And no demonstration of any actual love for him. She confuses control with love. I feel for her with him taking his new partner (which is what she is) to restaurants, I think that is wrong of him. But as a previous poster said, she showed no concern for his feelings for years (still doesn't), so he gets a pass - barely - on that from me. She even hopes he loses his new found happiness, just so she can hang on to him. She wants him to be unhappy again. There is no love there from her, simply ownership and control. When I see people treating her as the victim I truly wonder what people are reading and seeing that I'm not.

@PhillyQueen what would have happened if you'd unexpectedly turned up at the property he's renovating?

Do you think that your long marriage to a successful man with all the trappings that go with money gives you status amongst friends and society? Is this why the OW starting to live what has been your life (socialising with your friends, eating at your restaurant) gives you so much pain?

His openness (and don't kid yourself that everyone else is in the dark) is steadily eroding any status you think you have. People won't be envying your life, they will be wondering why you put up with a half life when you don't need to.

Look at what your dh is really saying - he wants a fully rounded relationship and if it's not with you he is looking elsewhere for it. The more he builds a new, solid, life with the OW the more your relationship loses any appeal. This may fizzle out but it will have demonstrated that it is possible to have everything he wants from a relationship. If it does end he won't be thinking "oh well, nice while it lasted. I've had my fling, I'll resume life with OP" he'll be looking for the next woman he can build a new life with as he has seen what could be out there.

If friends and family see that he is genuinely happy with the OW and you are trying to keep him in an unfufilling marriage how long do you think the pendulum will take to swing from sympathy for you to sympathy for him?

[quote SnowyQueen]@AngelinaFibres your exH left you and his young DC for a 17yo school girl? That is so creepy.[/quote]
She was young and probably quite naieve. He could impress her without much effort. She actually turned out to be a perfectly pleasant person when I spent more time with her as our children grew up but at the time she was in my head as a silly little girl. She smoked and drank a lot when they first met . The company he worked for had lots of single people and the culture was going to the pub every night after work. Everyone smoked .He enjoyed those things very much and had given them up because I didn't like smoking and we simply couldn't afford things like that within the limited budget we had with 2 children and a new mortgage. We wanted different things. I wanted financial stability and budgets and to be careful. He wanted to stay in the life we had had before which I simply didn't have the energy for and with one salary we certainly didn't have the money. It was all inevitable really.

I’m sorry OP. I think your husband may well stay with you, at least for now, but mainly because his new girlfriend doesn’t seem to want to leave her partner.

I have seen a similar set up among friends, two people in sexless marriages (obviously I don’t know if the GF’s marriage here is) becoming lovers. In the situation I know of, he’s in an open marriage, she’s cheating. He has told her he would leave his wife for her but while she’s still staying with her husband there’s no point and he may as well stay married for now.

If it weren’t for the age differences I’d think I was reading about my friends (he’s early 50s, she’s late 30s), because so much of what the OP says seems to mirror what I know about their relationship, and I get that same sense here that the only reason the OP’s DH hasn’t gone is because his GF hasn’t left her partner (yet).

I asked my male friend once why/how he was in the situation he’s in, and his reply was “I feel wanted and loved for the first time in years”. While I don’t necessarily agree with what they’re both doing, I did feel real sadness for him when he said this, as being starved of affection from the person from whom you could reasonably most expect it must be such a lonely way to live. (He also told me that for a long time he’d have said truthfully he would still have rather been having a meaningful sex life with his wife, but he’s no longer sure that’s the case…but he doesn’t know how much of that is down to how much he’s fallen for the OW, and how much is self-protection because he’s had to accept that ship has sailed despite his previous, pre- and early-GF efforts to make his wife feel loved and desirable himself.)

I see so many parallels with your situation OP, and I’m sad for both of you. I couldn’t live with knowing I’d been replaced not just in his bed but also in his affections. To answer your question, I don’t know how you live with it without it feeling like death from a thousand cuts. I think you need to be aware that the person with most control over your marriage is your husband’s GF. Can you live with knowing that, and the uncertainty that brings?

OP. I don't actually think that either of you are bad people. You both entered into this arrangement as a compromise and it turns out that the compromise doesn't work that well.

Some people prefer travelling with a friend and others prefer travelling with a romantic partner. You are the former and I strongly suspect that your husband will turn out to be the latter. That's ok. It does mean that you may need to compromise further if your end game is just to stay married at all costs though.

All this 'he broke the rules in their agreement ' doesn't matter . It is irrelevant and not important.

The OP wants to be happy. In order to do this, she has to make sure her DH is a good boy and stays by her side. His needs don't matter. They are UNIMPORTANT. She wants to control him and ensure her needs have priority and take precedence above all others.
This is what counts and what most of you are missing by concentrating on the minutiae of breaking agreements etc.
You need to wake up and understand this is all about her being happy for the rest of her life - sod him.

There’s an oft repeated quote on MN:

“When someone shows you who they are listen”.

That’s what you need to do now. He is showing you that he wants this woman to know his friends; to work alongside her; to eat in restaurants you have enjoyed; to spend time with; to walk, to talk, to laugh, to love.

The fact that he is telling you that he doesn’t want to leave is meaningless at this point. He wants a full relationship with this woman.

I’m sorry you need to focus on yourself. Your relationship will end. Either he will leave, or she’ll leave him and he’ll be bereft and you’ll be expected to pick up the pieces of his broken heart. Don’t allow him to do that to you.

if OP was willing and able to have some semblance of a functional sex life with him, he'd still rather have both sex and love with OP than with the new girlfriend.

I do wish people would stop suggesting the OP might want sex if she had therapy. Just accept that she doesn't want sex. It might not suit you, it certainly wouldn't suit me, but it is how she is and no-one should feel obliged to change that. And who wants 'some semblance of a functional sex life' with someone who had to have therapy to get there? Jesus wept.

Is he aware of how much this is hurting you?

What is it that the two of you have together, that is worth hanging on to? I can understand that there is a shared house and grand children but what else is there, really? Watching TV, having dinners out, going on holiday…his body is there but it’s very likely his mind is elsewhere. He’s not truly with you, his mind is occupied with thoughts and dreams of her and he’s even openly messaging her in front of you. What’s in it for you?

You seem to think he’s infatuated with this OW, much like a teenager, but he’s 62. This is different. He may be kidding himself that they can both remain married and keep this going but really, it’s a half-life for everyone concerned, and it will eat you up inside. If it does fizzle out she won’t be the last. It’s likely his feelings for her will intensify and he will break this new ‘rule’, too.

I think the best thing you could do right now is to go back to couples therapy to iron this out between yourselves, as well as in your own mind.

"What is it that the two of you have together, that is worth hanging on to? I can understand that there is a shared house and grand children but what else is there, really? Watching TV, having dinners out, going on holiday…his body is there but it’s very likely his mind is elsewhere. He’s not truly with you, his mind is occupied with thoughts and dreams of her and he’s even openly messaging her in front of you. What’s in it for you?"

This. When you say you hope he will realise how good you two have it, it actually sounds more as if he's realised what he's been missing. And it does sound like he's on his way out of your marriage, whatever he may say to you with words now. Look at his actions. He's dating another woman, going out with her in public, taking her to places you and he shared and allowing situations to arise - or even creating them - where she meets your friends. Goodness only knows what her husband thinks about all this.

It's very hard, OP, when you thought you could trust how things are but you find you can't but it happens to people all the time. It takes a while but they pick themselves up, dust themselves down and move on. And your 60s is a brilliant time to carve a new life. Your children are adults now and you have so much more time to focus on yourself. And you have a decent whack of life experience also. It's a great time to start adventuring.

OP you're putting a lot of emphasis on thing's he's told you, they've agreed not to leave their partners because he suggested it and she agreed? How is that different to him suggesting an 'only sex' arrangement that you agreed to and he then broke?

He doesn't love here yet but is already prepared to hurt you over their relationship, what the hell will he do to you when they do fall in love proper?

He is telling you what is happening yet minimising it. He introduced her to friends of yours(WTAF?). Are they planning to move into his renovation project when it's finished? If not what the hell was she doing there?

I honestly think he is setting you up and will leave as soon as he has got everything in place, you WILL be the last to know.

@BertramLacey

if OP was willing and able to have some semblance of a functional sex life with him, he'd still rather have both sex and love with OP than with the new girlfriend.

I do wish people would stop suggesting the OP might want sex if she had therapy. Just accept that she doesn't want sex. It might not suit you, it certainly wouldn't suit me, but it is how she is and no-one should feel obliged to change that. And who wants 'some semblance of a functional sex life' with someone who had to have therapy to get there? Jesus wept.

Totally. It’s really disturbing that so many women think this attitude is acceptable. It’s the 21st century version of thinking of England.

Wow. I think it is so disturbing that people are so disparaging of marital and sexual therapy. What message are they sending to a married couple who want to try ? That they are pathetic for needing sex therapy and should give up? This 1800s attitude is abhorrent and disgusting. Sex therapy is there to encourage marriages to try and find happiness and intimacy again in a marriage instead of just giving up. There is nothing shameful about being open to trying to be intimate with your partner. On the contrary. And shame on anyone who attempts to say so.

I never thought I would see the day on this site where women suggest a woman should just give up and not try to make her marriage work and that if you need therapy you are pathetic. There are some very disturbed people on here with some very 1800s attitudes to sex. You'd never know it was 2021.

This situation has all the makings of a total headfuck for you.

@TheGirlCat

I never thought I would see the day on this site where women suggest a woman should just give up and not try to make her marriage work and that if you need therapy you are pathetic. There are some very disturbed people on here with some very 1800s attitudes to sex. You'd never know it was 2021.

Yes there is a massive number of people on here who's first reaction is LTB. Regardless of number of years together or what a couple have that might be worth saving.

I think this marriage can be saved but only if they both put the effort in to saving it.
Standing back and watching, waiting is not going to do any good for either of them.

I never thought I would see the day on this site where women suggest a woman should just give up and not try to make her marriage work

Ah you obviously never come on here on days ending with Y!

As some have pointed out, there’s very little in the OP’s posts that addresses her husband’s feelings and hopes.

Just a sort of perplexed “I’ve said he can fuck other women - what more does be want?”

In this case, I think the question should be seen as more than rhetorical. Because it appears to have an answer.

@TheGirlCat

I never thought I would see the day on this site where women suggest a woman should just give up and not try to make her marriage work and that if you need therapy you are pathetic. There are some very disturbed people on here with some very 1800s attitudes to sex. You'd never know it was 2021.

I never thought I’d see the day on a forum full of women where someone who doesn’t want to have sex is coerced into changing their mind. It’s misogyny at its finest. I find it truly shocking.

I never thought I’d see the day on a forum full of women where someone who is encouraged to show love to her partner and engage help designed to make marriages work is told not to bother and she is pathetic if she needs help to do so. It’s misogyny at its finest. I find it truly shocking.

I think everyone agrees that the OP should not be coerced into having sex she doesn't want. But OP wants to remain in her marriage and it is coming apart, at the very least, because of the lack of sexual intimacy (and possibly also because of a lack of emotional intimacy). It may be that with careful and sensitive exploration with a trained therapist, OP would find an interest that she was previously unaware of.

For example, I have only recently understood the difference between spontaneous sexual desire and responsive sexual desire. At the risk of TMI: I have very low spontaneous desire levels but experience strong responsive desire when I engage in sexual activity and I really enjoy sex. It may be that OP falls into that category and would discover this to be the case with some exploration. Or she may not. Either way, it may be too late for OP's marriage to recover but this could be useful information for OP to have about herself going forward if she wishes to embark on future relationships.

Of course, if OP is completely confident that she simply doesn't want sex and won't ever want it again, that's fine too but in that case, based on what is unfolding, it is likely she will lose her marriage and she doesn't want that to happen.

@TheGirlCat

I never thought I’d see the day on a forum full of women where someone who is encouraged to show love to her partner and engage help designed to make marriages work is told not to bother and she is pathetic if she needs help to do so. It’s misogyny at its finest. I find it truly shocking.

Nobody’s told her not to bother and pathetic is your word, I haven’t seen anyone else use it. But really why would you try to push her into doing something she doesn’t want to? She’s happy not having sex, she doesn’t want it. How would it be showing love to do something she doesn’t want and why would her bloke want her to? He doesn’t have a right to her body, we stopped all that sort of nonsense some time ago.