Open marriage has gone wrong 😑

[PhillyQueen]

Name change for this as previous posts may be outing.

Sex life with DH dried up completely about 8 years ago. It was never stellar but that didn’t seem particularly important to either of us . Our relationship was otherwise perfect, he is a fine person and a great dad to our (now adult) kids and we used to have sex at most weekly, then over the years went to fortnightly and monthly until it tailed off altogether. Neither of us seemed bothered and it wasn’t a big deal and I just assumed that’s what happened in long-term relationships. Life was good even if any passion was long-gone. We have both always had our own friends as well as mutual ones, we both run businesses, we were busy but always looked forward to time together.

After the sex stopped altogether, we avoided the subject for a couple of years then we had the conversation where we both agreed that we wanted to stay together as we love each other but that DH didn’t want to give up that part of his life forever and that if it wasn’t possible with me, he would like to look elsewhere and would prefer to do it with my blessing. So, good idea or not, we had an open marriage policy for a few years and it seemed to work well. It was reciprocal but I wasn’t up for it with anyone , not just him, I’ve never been very sexual. Even though he had a couple of brief affairs, nothing changed with our family life and I was happy enough knowing we could carry on as we were. All good. Not a perfect love story but a practical way of keeping things going, which is what we both wanted.

Only now things have changed. He has met someone he really likes, by his own admission even loves, and I am worried he is going to leave me and our life for her. She is younger than us and very attractive. If I were standing next to her, I would look like her grandmother. He is absolutely smitten with her and for the first time, I feel our marriage is truly in danger.

I feel that DH has violated the terms of our agreement for an open marriage and should stop seeing this woman but he has said he won’t do that, that she makes him happy, and that we agreed that we could both see other people etc. so it’s me that’s being unreasonable. Falling in love with someone else was never part of the deal I agreed to, though.

So what can I do? Grit my teeth and bear it and hope they break up? Or ask him again to stop seeing her otherwise our marriage will have to end?

This is making me feel physically ill now. What the actual fuck OP, where is your self respect?

He has a girlfriend that he has no problem parading in front of friends and family. And you are deluded if you think no one has twigged to what is going on.

And if even this one fizzles out, he’s still going to be seeking sex with someone else, and the next girlfriend will be just around the corner because the precedent has now been set.

They thing that broke me is that on Thursday he took her to a restaurant where we often go as a family. We were there on Friday (the day after) with his siblings and dad and it’s where my daughter-in-law had her baby shower.

You have a concept of ownership that extends from your husband to businesses around your town.

It isn't your family restaurant. It's a business in your town. Lots of people go there. It's not reserved especially for you.

What made you believe that other people can put their entire lives in neat, separate boxes the way you do?

You don't seem to have much ability to place yourself in other people's shoes.

Why is being single so utterly unthinkable to you that you are trying to delude yourself about what your friends suspect, what your adult children have noticed, why you believe there is still a marriage in any relevant or reasonable sense of the term, and how you are going to go on believing you are not single when what you are actually living with is the eight hundred pound gorilla in the room that @AngelinaFibres wrote so eloquently about?

I'm not sure I"ve ever seen a poster on MN with lower self-esteem than you OP.

He can do whatever the hell he likes, and you'll just accept it. By agreeing that he can carry on and that you'll turn a blind eye to the fact he has a GIRLFRIEND, you have signed your own marriage death warrant.

I think the only way you stood a hope in hell of your marriage surviving was by insisting that he gives his new partner up - because that's what he is - and agreeing to have some sexual counselling yourself.

Eventually only being with this young, beautiful, funny and engaging woman part-time won't be enough. All you're doing right now is scooping up the breadcrumbs he chucks to you while you wait for this to happen.

I don't think you should have left him - if you both love each other the way you say you do, then you could have worked out to move on from this together. But you're too scared to say that and he's having too much fun elsewhere. And will continue to do so while you do all the drudgery at home for him.

I think this is genuinely one of the saddest relationship threads I've read.

This is such a sad thread to read. OP I wish for you to give your head a shake and leave this man.

@PhillyQueen

DH says he was the one who brought up the ground rules about not leaving partners and OW agreed.

I have already acknowledged I’m a doormat. I’m 62 and have my own business, I’m not leeching off OH. He does have a bigger personal income but I don’t need his financial support, I’m not hanging around for that. I’m here because I like our life and I love DH

I think it will fizzle out.

Why do you think it will fizzle out?

Regards to ground rules, isn't he already breaking the rules set by your original agreement - he's making the rules up as he goes along.

You don't know what he is promising to the other woman.

I am curious as to why you mention your appearance and compare yourself physically and in terms of attractiveness to the '40 something' woman your H is falling in love with.

You could be a combination of Farrah Fawcett, Raquel Welch and Ann Margret, but if you have decided a sexual relationship isn't what you want with your husband, then what has your attractiveness got to do with the price of fish, as they say?

You like your life with him and you love him. You didn’t want sex with him anymore so thought you would do the right thing and offer him the opportunity to get his sexual needs met outside the marriage. A bit like employing someone to walk your dog occasionally while you can’t. I get it, and I understand why you did it. I always think it’s very wrong when one person in a marriage decides they don’t want sex for whatever reason and expects the other person to just accept that’s how they must live the rest of their life.
That said, you yourself realised there always was the potential for this to happen. He has told you he doesn’t like sex for the sake of it and was considering stopping it. Now it appears the worst case scenario has become a reality. He’s dating her, he’s in a relationship with her, he’s taking her for romantic meals, he’s doing projects with her (doing up his house). This is as far from NSA as you can get. Of course your friends know what’s going on,and I’m sure there’s lots of tongue wagging going on behind the scenes.
He’s telling you he loves you and doesn’t want to leave, and she feels the same.
For how long? I’m sorry, I feel bad for the situation you are in as I understand how it came about. I think it’s very likely as time goes on, his feelings for her will intensify to the point where he will come to you with the script. We haven’t been working for a long time, we just didn’t want to accept it etc.
I think your marriage is on borrowed time and you should begin to think about what you will do when that time comes, emotionally and financially. I could be wrong of course, I genuinely hope I am.

I'm not my husband's keeper! If he wants to go, he will, regardless of what I want.

I have a comfortable lifestyle & am settled here, hence why I stay.

There are some heartbreakingly sad posts like this on this thread. Are some women really so terrified of being self-sufficient that they'll put up with being treated like dirt and then get defensive when other posters state the fact of what a shadow of living this existence is? Dependant on a man who clearly does not love them and has no desire for them and contenting themselves with that, being disrespected and humiliated.

I don't understand it at all.

@OddSockReunion

I'm not my husband's keeper! If he wants to go, he will, regardless of what I want.

I have a comfortable lifestyle & am settled here, hence why I stay.

There are some heartbreakingly sad posts like this on this thread. Are some women really so terrified of being self-sufficient that they'll put up with being treated like dirt and then get defensive when other posters state the fact of what a shadow of living this existence is? Dependant on a man who clearly does not love them and has no desire for them and contenting themselves with that, being disrespected and humiliated.

I don't understand it at all.

I wouldn't describe this particular woman as being treated like dirt. If you read through her previous posts, she's refused to have sex with him for the past five years because he's a momma's boy and doesn't do enough housework. Meanwhile, she's happy to live on his much larger income in a house to which she contributes not one penny, and seems to take pleasure in the fact that it will cost him a fortune to leave her. Unlike OP, she's not on board with the whole open marriage thing, and has made it clear that if he looks elsewhere, she'll ruin him in a very expensive divorce, so he's consigned to celibacy. It really just sounds like extortion at this point.

I think your marriage has ended with you 'drifting apart', as the saying goes. Of course you can't force someone to stay with you if they want to be somewhere else, and with someone else. Realistically, how long would that last for?

@PhillyQueen

We spoke last night, in quite some depth, and he made it clear that whilst committed to staying in our marriage, DH is not going to stop seeing this woman. He said he never really enjoyed meeting women just for sex and had pretty much decided that, after a long break due to Covid, he was going to stop doing that and let his sex life go and be contented with what we had, which we both admit is good and enough in pretty much all areas.

Then of course he met this woman and everything changed and although he says “love” is too strong a word for so early on in their thing, they definitely have strong feelings for each other. He reiterated that it’s not jusy sex for him, that they have only slept together twice and that had only happened recently. But he’s not leaving and has no plans to do so, apparently not now or ever, and that he still loves me, which is what I have to work with right now.

As they have only been intimate twice, I’m going to assume he is currently infatuated with her but that this will fade and he will see what we have together is too good to throw away for sex. I am aware this might not be the case and this is merely a coping mechanism for me right now, but so be it.

I suspect he's just saying he has no plans to leave your marriage because he doesn't want to hurt you further, and he knows that's what you want to hear. He loves you, but he's not in love with you. He's trying to be kind to you, but sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind.

But he's basically branch swinging now, if he hits it off with this woman (or the next), then I think he's ultimately going to leave you - if not by divorce, them emotionally and lovingly. They'll start spending more and more time together, and he'll become less emotionally available to you. The writing is on the wall.

PP's keep going on about money and divorce being expensive. Yes it is, you'll obviously be dividing assets. But as your children are all adult and you both have businesses of your own, then it's likely to be a fairly even split. He's not going to come out of it with nothing but an order for child and spousal maintenance, like men with young families do. It sounds like you've more than enough assets to separate and both still be in a decent financial position.

And this update about them hardly having any sex so far, yet they've been seeing each other for months just shows the reality - it's not just sex he's craving, it's the whole intimacy package. It sounds like it's all of it that's missing from your marriage, not just the physical act of sex, but the loving intimacy that is the glue of any successful couple. You're a functional couple, but is there any romance left there? There's a chance your husband might have been able to tolerate a sexless marriage if the other intimacy was still there in abundance, but it's probably too late for that now.

Shocking that some posters are saying that the husband is being abusive, gaslighting and a narcissist. He's put up with negligible to zero sex life for years, without pestering his wife or complaining about it. His tolerance and patience there is what's led his wife to believe that he's been ok with that all along.

I'm sure asexual relationships can work, but only if both partners really want that. It's very unlikely that a sexual couple will both decide they want to become asexual at the same time further down the road. The fact there are so many women posting in this thread saying their relationships have become sexless and they're both happy with that is depressing. Because I bet in most cases their husbands aren't as happy with it as their wives think they are. Men are just conditioned to accept that women go off sex, and that's how it is, and that it's boorish to not accept it. But ultimately these men often end up having extramarital sex. The only difference here is that the OP's husband was open and honest about that potential solution, and she tolerated it.

I have been following this gripping thread. Honestly OP I can understand you don't want to start again... its not even an age thing people feel like this at 30. I also hear you obviously love your husband too.

I think you already know that your DH is telling you what you want to hear. If it got to this stage with OW there are no guarantees he won't leave (family restaurant). I mean your kids may surely know about OW.

I suspect OW is making you unhappy and this is why your posting OP. Honestly your updates are so sad to read.

OPS DH doesn't sound like a bad guy to me.OP is bliase about the lack of sex... to the extent she assumed he was happy to have sex occasionally come on give the man a break!!

TBH I think he was having sex with some OW before he asked for permission.

I just feel really sad for you.

@LoislovesStewie

TBH I think he was having sex with some OW before he asked for permission.

….on the basis of what? I mean, apart from complete speculation that adds absolutely fuck-all to an already fraught situation?

@PhillyQueen

DH says he was the one who brought up the ground rules about not leaving partners and OW agreed.

I have already acknowledged I’m a doormat. I’m 62 and have my own business, I’m not leeching off OH. He does have a bigger personal income but I don’t need his financial support, I’m not hanging around for that. I’m here because I like our life and I love DH

I think it will fizzle out.

It may fizzle out. It may not.

You seem to have missed what your dh is telling you. He its clear he is no longer happy with having emotionless sex with women, then having the rest of his life with you.

He wants sex with someone he has an emotional connection with. He needs both. And he is getting that with her. Not you. He is clearly, telling you that casual sex with other women is not working for him. He is clearly telling you its not enough.

He is building a life with her where its a proper relationship. People have met her, you say they won't suspect. They absolutely will. They will know he is taking her to dinner at restaurants you use as a family. They will be seen out and about together. The staff will notice and talk to eachother, I have worked in many restaurants and its definitely raised some eyebrows. Colleagues will know. He isn't hiding it. Eventually, your kids will hear something. Even if they don't say it to you.

The more this women is with him when they bump into friends, the more obvious it will be. It will probably be so obvious, no one says anything to you. Not because they think he is cheating and don't tell you. But because its so obvious they will question wether you know.

As awful as it sounds, it's like your position in his life has changed. Now you are more an obligation he has and a front to maintain his wider family life, not a life partner. You are the person that's there so he can maintain his family life keep his kids happy still do things with them as a big family. But anything else, that's for him will include his partner.

When it comes to his birthday, he may do something you with you and with his kids. But he will also be celebrating with his girlfriend. What about weekends away? Or holidays?

People do find out, your kids will probably find out if he isn't being discreet.

I remember it being an open secret at school that my friends dad had a whole other family as her dad worked with several parents of kids in our year. Non of us dare bring it up as we weren't sure wether she knew. Because so many people knew, we couldn't understand how my friend didn't. My friend officially found out at 17, but admitted she knew along time before. But wasn't sure if her mum knew so never said anything. She was a teen and had no idea how to handle it. Again, it was so obvious what was happening she couldn't believe her mum didn't know.

And it turned the mum did know and turned a blind eye, for the sake of her kids who all knew but were keeping their mouth shut and to stay on the marriage. Me and my friend are now approaching 40. And what's left is 2 bitter women who only ever got half a man and man who is now, happily still in his marriage and with a new partner on the side, while his wife is now getting about 25% of him. The girlfriend dumped him several years ago.

Friends dad turns up at family events, they play the happy couple and everyone thinks it's weird and feels sorry for the wife.

You admit you are a doormat. I can understand someone going along with this because it genuinely doesn't bother them. I actually, know someone who is aware her husband cheats. They have a fab life and she is happy with the status quo. She feels that she is actively choosing this and so has some power. She also made sure she was financially stable, has assets in her own name and lots of legal agreements in place, so if it goes wrong, her life won't change much. Wether people agree or not, she feels she has some power of teh situation and admits that one day she may not be happy and will walk away. Their marriage is more that of best friends. Lots of love and respect. But not that love you get in a romantic couple.

But I can't understand someone who acknowledges they are a doormat is unhappy with their husband having a proper romantic relationship with someone else, but putting up with it in the hope this one fizzles out. Sat waiting to find out if it does or not. Sat worried their husband may come home and say he is leaving. That's no way to live. .

I just think it's too soon for you. I wi guess in a couple of years, if this hasn't fizzled out or he has moved on to another girlfriend, your view will change.

I also disagree with pp saying Op husband is abusive and gaslighting etc. he’s married to a woman who hasn’t wanted sex for the past 5 years ffs. How many men who still have a healthy sex drive would accept that, or women if the roles were reversed. If he had left he would have been accused of having OW, so what is he supposed to do? Stay in a marriage that isn’t meeting his needs. Who would do that, honestly. Love is wonderful, but sometimes it’s not enough.
Op DH has found someone who is meeting all the needs he has to make him happy, it’s extremely unlikely he will be willing to give that up. Even if he does, I think he will really miss OW and will end up going back to her. I just don’t see him as being the bad guy that some are making him out to be.
He’s telling her that he won’t leave her for OW, maybe he’s trying to believe that himself, maybe that’s how he actually feels right now, but I reckon he’s kidding himself.

This is a very sad thread and a difficult read.

Your H is willing to continue your marriage as a familial, social and financial structure, but knows that he has a huge expanse of freedom to build an intimate partnership with OW that you will accommodate, no matter how disloyal he is.

It is massively disrespectful of him to bring OW into the orbit of you and your family. He is gaining some level of gratification by doing so, and this reveals a deficit of decency and a lack of care for you, your children, extended family, and friends.

His introducing OW to your mutual friends must be gutting. (And at a family owned property that possibly is/will be their love nest.) He made a mockery of both you and the friends. He wanted them to be impressed with his secret ‘girlfriend.’ He and OW would have been exchanging knowing glances that they were fooling everyone. Some of the friends likely caught on, and they all will eventually know if OW is included in future gatherings, and certainly if they continue their public dates and outings.

And the restaurant. Having a cozy date in your special place, in view of other diners. The staff would have noticed him there with OW that night and then with you/his family the following night. He says that he thinks of her always, so he would have been sitting there reliving their shared evening.

This man must have zero concern about his above actions stabbing you in the heart. His behavior is truly beyond the pale. Philly, you have the right to be treated with respect by your H. Have you not called him out in anger about this? It is tragic that you are resigned to turning yourself inside-out to endure this devaluation and contempt. Please seek individual counseling.

I really do wish you well.

@WalkingOnTheCracks. I made the comment because a man who wants sex is going to be getting relief from somewhere, whether he is masturbating while looking at porn (or some other form on the internet), or paying prostitutes or hooking up for sex, he will be getting something. I can't see any man not doing something about the lack of sex long before it seems to have happened here. The OP keeps saying she is going to wait and see, but quite frankly I think she is kidding herself that he won't leave, or alternatively that she won't end up completely broken by his liaison with the OW. If she chooses to wait and see of course she can do so, but being a realistic sort of person I just feel that is what has been happening here. Most men (and a lot of women) don't live with no form of sexual relief. Feel free to disagree.

@Tillysfad

I don't think you're a door mat at all. You're confusing yourself with someone who is putting up with all affair. It's the other way around for you. Your DH has been putting up with a half marriage and trying to accommodate you by having the occasional fling which wasn't his first choice. If anything you've been ruling with a rod of iron and things are levelling out because you were asking too much.

👏👏👏👏 Glad to see more people are calling the OP out.

OP, stop posting here.

Go and get yourself a decent counsellor and talk this through with a professional. There’s a lot to unpick here. I don’t think a bunch of potentially unqualified strangers on the internet can help you.

And tell your close friends. Tell people this is what is happening. You need people around you who you can talk this through with, don’t let this DH/girlfriend secret fester and rot your already low self-esteem.

@SpidersAreShitheads

I'm not sure I"ve ever seen a poster on MN with lower self-esteem than you OP.

He can do whatever the hell he likes, and you'll just accept it. By agreeing that he can carry on and that you'll turn a blind eye to the fact he has a GIRLFRIEND, you have signed your own marriage death warrant.

I think the only way you stood a hope in hell of your marriage surviving was by insisting that he gives his new partner up - because that's what he is - and agreeing to have some sexual counselling yourself.

Eventually only being with this young, beautiful, funny and engaging woman part-time won't be enough. All you're doing right now is scooping up the breadcrumbs he chucks to you while you wait for this to happen.

I don't think you should have left him - if you both love each other the way you say you do, then you could have worked out to move on from this together. But you're too scared to say that and he's having too much fun elsewhere. And will continue to do so while you do all the drudgery at home for him.

I think this is genuinely one of the saddest relationship threads I've read.

I don't think the OP's problem is low self esteem. I think it's the contrary. Also she comes across as extremely manipulative and controlling. It's an 'I'm not going to let him go no matter what and I'll make him pay if he tries to leave me!' attitude. No concern for his feelings or happiness, she doesn't care about his needs as long as she keeps the title. She is hoping his new found happiness fizzles out and he remains in a sexless marriage to her at all costs. Low self esteem is definitely not a problem she has.

Your DH has been putting up with a half marriage and trying to accommodate you by having the occasional fling

Hardly. It’s not like she’s told him she gets off on knowing he has sex with randoms, and therefore has enforced some kind of weekly “go find a random and shag them rule” into their marriage.

Jeez, you paint it like the DH is having to go have sex with strangers just to please his wife. They both agreed to open their marriage to sex with other people.

@Dery

“He is slowly but surely bringing her in to the forefront of his life and humiliating you in the process.”

This.

I am so sorry Op but he is 'trying her out' in situations and places that mean something to him. He is sitting back and watching how she fits in and imagining her there . He has probably allowed his mind to wander to an evening in the future with your children and grandchildren and her in the favourite restaurant celebrating something special. They are all there but in his fantasy there is no place for you. I lived 3 doors away from my former mother in law. When my husband left she said nothing would change. I was her daughter in law and she adored me. With a few weeks he was having the children every other weekend. I walked past her house one Sunday and the 17 year old, my husband and my 2 tiny children were going into her house for lunch. It was excruciating. I had ceased exist in that life. For your own sake Op please take some control of what is happening to you. It will only get worse

It's an 'I'm not going to let him go no matter what and I'll make him pay if he tries to leave me!' attitude.

Did you guys read the OP’s comments? He doesn’t want to leave her! And where has she said she’ll make him pay?!

She’s on here asking for advice about how to handle her feelings given this sudden change of direction with the no-strings sex arrangement they previously had.