Open marriage has gone wrong 😑

[PhillyQueen]

Name change for this as previous posts may be outing.

Sex life with DH dried up completely about 8 years ago. It was never stellar but that didn’t seem particularly important to either of us . Our relationship was otherwise perfect, he is a fine person and a great dad to our (now adult) kids and we used to have sex at most weekly, then over the years went to fortnightly and monthly until it tailed off altogether. Neither of us seemed bothered and it wasn’t a big deal and I just assumed that’s what happened in long-term relationships. Life was good even if any passion was long-gone. We have both always had our own friends as well as mutual ones, we both run businesses, we were busy but always looked forward to time together.

After the sex stopped altogether, we avoided the subject for a couple of years then we had the conversation where we both agreed that we wanted to stay together as we love each other but that DH didn’t want to give up that part of his life forever and that if it wasn’t possible with me, he would like to look elsewhere and would prefer to do it with my blessing. So, good idea or not, we had an open marriage policy for a few years and it seemed to work well. It was reciprocal but I wasn’t up for it with anyone , not just him, I’ve never been very sexual. Even though he had a couple of brief affairs, nothing changed with our family life and I was happy enough knowing we could carry on as we were. All good. Not a perfect love story but a practical way of keeping things going, which is what we both wanted.

Only now things have changed. He has met someone he really likes, by his own admission even loves, and I am worried he is going to leave me and our life for her. She is younger than us and very attractive. If I were standing next to her, I would look like her grandmother. He is absolutely smitten with her and for the first time, I feel our marriage is truly in danger.

I feel that DH has violated the terms of our agreement for an open marriage and should stop seeing this woman but he has said he won’t do that, that she makes him happy, and that we agreed that we could both see other people etc. so it’s me that’s being unreasonable. Falling in love with someone else was never part of the deal I agreed to, though.

So what can I do? Grit my teeth and bear it and hope they break up? Or ask him again to stop seeing her otherwise our marriage will have to end?

The OP is EXPECTING her DH to find cold sex and that's it. She is controlling his sex life. She has told him to find stranger sex. She has told him to stay married, stay in her life, keep up the 'marriage' but only have sex with strangers and NOT connect with them

Oh come - this is not what happened. In fact that whole post is an entire woman-blaming, men- excusing fantasy.

Look, her husband was never trapped in a sexless marriage. He was able to initiate a divorce whenever he wanted. They had a discussion and they both agreed he would seek sex elsewhere. In fact, from the OP, it seems as if this was HIS suggestion - the OP says he wanted his wife's blessing to do this.

The husband seeking sex outside the marriage was an arrangement they both discussed and signed up to. He could have left the marriage. People do if marriages no longer give them what they need emotionally, sexually, practically. If people to stay, such as the husband, then its because they are getting something they value from the marriage. He stayed because he chose to. He freely entered into the sex outside the marriage deal, and indeed seems to have initiated it.

So stop making up slanderous rubbish about the wife, and a helpless victim story about the husband, to suit your fictionalised narrative.

Personally wouldn’t have much respect for a man who was happy to treat other women like prostitutes.

@Washeduponthebeach

Personally wouldn’t have much respect for a man who was happy to treat other women like prostitutes.

Don't you understand that there are some women who just want to have a sexual relationship with a man ?

Hope you are ok OP and you managed to talk to him yesterday. Addressing it will be hard but you can’t carry on like this.

I am sorry to say BUT you need to move on .. this was inevitable. Stayed with my partner for 16 years.. I was going to leave @14 years. I stayed for the other two years .,, no sex // simply because he needed me and our child needed us he had brain tumour so stayed to look after him. The grass was definitely greener on the other side aftwerwards.

@NamechangeApril21 - which bit? happy to discuss anything via DM if you would like?

@deadleaves

The OP is EXPECTING her DH to find cold sex and that's it. She is controlling his sex life. She has told him to find stranger sex. She has told him to stay married, stay in her life, keep up the 'marriage' but only have sex with strangers and NOT connect with them

Oh come - this is not what happened. In fact that whole post is an entire woman-blaming, men- excusing fantasy.

Look, her husband was never trapped in a sexless marriage. He was able to initiate a divorce whenever he wanted. They had a discussion and they both agreed he would seek sex elsewhere. In fact, from the OP, it seems as if this was HIS suggestion - the OP says he wanted his wife's blessing to do this.

The husband seeking sex outside the marriage was an arrangement they both discussed and signed up to. He could have left the marriage. People do if marriages no longer give them what they need emotionally, sexually, practically. If people to stay, such as the husband, then its because they are getting something they value from the marriage. He stayed because he chose to. He freely entered into the sex outside the marriage deal, and indeed seems to have initiated it.

So stop making up slanderous rubbish about the wife, and a helpless victim story about the husband, to suit your fictionalised narrative.

Nothing slanderous about it. The fact is since meeting someone else he has realised how unfulfilling his marriage is and he doesn't just want a cold pair of shoulders who simply likes the lifestyle

I've had to think very carefully how I word this. I really really don't understand women like you. There is no such thing as an 'open marriage' unless both partners are emotionless as well as sexless. It never works. Someone always, always gets hurt. There is no such thing unless you are flatmates. Sex is an extremely important, and vital, if not extremely vital - part of a marriage. Why did you marry him if sex wasn't important? It is not normal to be in a sexless marriage unless you are flatmates. Even women I know in their 70s still enjoy regular sex. Sex is an extremely vital part of a marriage. I have a healthy sex drive and even in my late 40s I wanted it at least once a week. Sex in the 60s is even better. And you don't even have young children as an excuse. You should be in your prime! As rare as you do? I'd rather not be alive. I understand people have varying sex drives, but if you don't give it to him at the very least once a month he will look elsewhere, and he WILL fall for another woman. You sound like you've stopped caring, stopped loving him, stopped wanting to make an effort. The question to you is, are you really happy not giving a damn? Do you want to let him go and find a woman that will love him and care about his needs? Or will you fight for him and your marriage, even if that means you yourself find a sex therapist/experiment with sex toys etc? The question is how much do you love him? Do you love him at all? Because there are almost no men that want to be in a sexless marriage. And not many women want to be in a sexless marriage either. If he is important to you, and your marriage (which should be about give and take, no a flatmate relationship) is important to you, you will do anything, Anything to get that magic back. You should be in your prime, not acting like a woman in a nursing home. A sexless marriage is absolute misery. You either are willing to give up your man to another woman and be alone or you will fight to rekindle your marriage and your passion even with a therapists' help. It may be too late as your husband has apparently found what he needs elsewhere. But you can try. IF you want to.

The agreement was just sex, no dating (other than maybe an initial meeting) and no overnights.

I did ask about her but DH said “no details. remember” which is what we agreed and have stuck to.

He’s broken the ground rules the two of you agreed to, admits it openly, and says he won’t stop but he still expects you to respect and follow them? No way, for me. Your original agreement is broken and I’d be asking a lot of questions about what’s going on. I know you’re scared, but you can’t be in a position where your husband Is basically telling you the marriage may end at any minute based on his decisions that he won’t discuss with you and the decisions of another person you don’t even know. Not only is this a miserable way to live emotionally, it’s also likely to disadvantage you materially, logistically, socially, etc. if you’re in the dark until he decides to make a change.

If he loves you he should be willing to compromise, especially as he is the one who didn’t stick to the original agreement. An arrangement like this has to work for both partners and both people have to follow the rules and it sounds like those rules were very cler in this case. And he should absolutely be able to stop reading her texts in front of you (for example) out of basic respect.

If you weren't in love with him, you might find a way of enjoying everyday life, family, holidays etc. together while letting him go his own way with this side relationship. Some people do. But not knowing if he's thinking of leaving, or is likely to leave, is really upsetting. And being in love with him and hearing him talk about being in love with someone else - I don't think that's going to stop hurting and eventually your resentment of him may destroy the parts of your life togther that are still good now.

@Callixte

The agreement was just sex, no dating (other than maybe an initial meeting) and no overnights.

I did ask about her but DH said “no details. remember” which is what we agreed and have stuck to.

He’s broken the ground rules the two of you agreed to, admits it openly, and says he won’t stop but he still expects you to respect and follow them? No way, for me. Your original agreement is broken and I’d be asking a lot of questions about what’s going on. I know you’re scared, but you can’t be in a position where your husband Is basically telling you the marriage may end at any minute based on his decisions that he won’t discuss with you and the decisions of another person you don’t even know. Not only is this a miserable way to live emotionally, it’s also likely to disadvantage you materially, logistically, socially, etc. if you’re in the dark until he decides to make a change.

If he loves you he should be willing to compromise, especially as he is the one who didn’t stick to the original agreement. An arrangement like this has to work for both partners and both people have to follow the rules and it sounds like those rules were very cler in this case. And he should absolutely be able to stop reading her texts in front of you (for example) out of basic respect.

If you weren't in love with him, you might find a way of enjoying everyday life, family, holidays etc. together while letting him go his own way with this side relationship. Some people do. But not knowing if he's thinking of leaving, or is likely to leave, is really upsetting. And being in love with him and hearing him talk about being in love with someone else - I don't think that's going to stop hurting and eventually your resentment of him may destroy the parts of your life togther that are still good now.

An argument can be made that the OP broke the ground rules of their marriage by not wanting to be in a loving sexual marriage. It never ceases to amaze me the amount of women that won't 'put out' (for want of a better term that I can't think of at the moment) and then are - shock horror - surprised that their husband seeks that bond elsewhere. It sounds like to me that the OP is asexual and never should have married her husband. Sexual loneliness, even starved of affection in a marriage is a terrible, horrible and devastating feeling. Guess what? He (or she) WILL go looking for it elsewhere if they are not getting it from the one who vowed to them to do so.

It never ceases to amaze me the amount of women that won't 'put out' (for want of a better term that I can't think of at the moment) and then are - shock horror - surprised that their husband seeks that bond elsewhere. It sounds like to me that the OP is asexual and never should have married her husband. Sexual loneliness, even starved of affection in a marriage is a terrible, horrible and devastating feeling.

Exactly this.

This isn't just sex any more. He's having another relationship.

@MadeForThis

This isn't just sex any more. He's having another relationship.

I'm sorry but what did OP expect, that he could just have random sex with women and not getting any feelings ever? I think only a psychopath or robot would be capable of this. Of course he would develop feelings and fall for someone eventually, that's what sex is usually intertwined with. You can't just outsource sex like some sort of cleaning service!

For those who 'would rather have a cup of tea', you can outsource sex as they don't understand why people like it and see it as a chore. For those who make love to their partner and enjoy making love, they're aghast you told your husband it was ok to make love to another woman. It's a hugely intimate bonding experience between a couple and like others said, he was eventually going to have feelings for someone.

I think the OP imagined someone else would take care of the 'oomska' that to her is sex, like ironing, it as a chore she didn't enjoy. Someone else has and now she's the other woman in her own relationship.

Nothing slanderous about it. The fact is since meeting someone else he has realised how unfulfilling his marriage is and he doesn't just want a cold pair of shoulders who simply likes the lifestyle

You really just can't stop making stuff up can you? You make stuff up and then attack OP for the stuff you have made up.

You have absolutely no idea what the husband feels about the marriage. It is entirely possible he is very happy with the arrangement. I know someone who has cheated on his partner throughout their relationship due to lack of sex. He still absolutely adores her. His eyes light up when he talks about her. He keeps her in his life as he wants her there as he really likes her.

As I said upthread, the husband has stayed in the marriage so he must get something out of it whether genuine affection/ love for his wife, or lifestyle or whatever. But he has chosen to stay out of his own freely chosen preference.

Because none of us know how he feels about any of this, other than he has freely chosen his life up to now and will make his own free choices in the future, none of us know what he will do next. He may just carry on like this - it might suit him perfectly.

@TheGirlCat

They have had sex for over 30 years, she states she shill finds her husband hugely attractive as she has admitted and so do others, that atractive that other women notice him in the street.

I don't think this is about attraction for her, there will be a reason that their sex life stopped and I don't think it's entirely the op's fault.

[quote Onthedunes]@TheGirlCat

They have had sex for over 30 years, she states she shill finds her husband hugely attractive as she has admitted and so do others, that atractive that other women notice him in the street.

I don't think this is about attraction for her, there will be a reason that their sex life stopped and I don't think it's entirely the op's fault.[/quote]
So, good idea or not, we had an open marriage policy for a few years and it seemed to work well. It was reciprocal but I wasn’t up for it with anyone , not just him, I’ve never been very sexual.

The OP has never really enjoyed sex. They haven't had sex in 8 years and their sex life wasn't ever particularly good. Her husband wanted to stay together but wanted a sex life so they agreed to an open marriage.

[quote Onthedunes]@TheGirlCat

They have had sex for over 30 years, she states she shill finds her husband hugely attractive as she has admitted and so do others, that atractive that other women notice him in the street.

I don't think this is about attraction for her, there will be a reason that their sex life stopped and I don't think it's entirely the op's fault.[/quote]
I think this quote from Esther Perel is quite pertinent here - it's in her Ted Talk:

www.ted.com/talks/esther_perel_the_secret_to_desire_in_a_long_term_relationship?

"Traditionally we have interpreted a woman’s desire as less—she must have less of an interest in sex. But no, it’s that women become less interested in the sex they can have. Put that same woman with a new person, in a new story, and suddenly she doesn’t need a role replacement. Because she’s interested in who she is, in what she’s feeling, in how she’s looking at herself and how she’s thinking—she’s turning herself on. So desire generally doesn’t have much to do with sexuality, but with inner criticism, lack of sense of self-worth, lack of vitality, bad body image, you name it—because desire is to own the wanting."

the amount of women that won't 'put out' (for want of a better term that I can't think of at the moment)

Try just calling it what it is - having sex. It's a far better term than the misogynist 'put out' which implies that men want sex and women give it to them reluctantly.

I think the analysis, or more importantly, the criticism of OP for no longer wanting sex, is really unhelpful and quite nasty in places on this thread, as well as not really showing much understanding of biological and hormonal reality for many middle aged women.

People have different sex drives, and many have different sex drives at different times of their life. Its mindbogglingly common for women as they go through life, and especially as peri-menopause and menopause approach to go off sex. There are plenty of women on here who talk about the end of their sex drive due to menopause. Some find HRT helps, some don't. As women age there are other changes which may or may not be related to menopause which can cause women to go off sex related to changed in the vulva and vagina. It isn't always just a matter of ' you just haven't tried hard enough for your poor H'. It is surely not that hard to understand that evolution would switch off the sex drive of someone who cannot reproduce anymore? It doesn't happen for all women but does for many and some are deeply unhappy at this lose of an important part of themselves. They can do without the smug and attacking tone of some on this thread.
Whatever, anyone can stop having sex for whatever reason they want. (Who the hell would want to have sex with someone who doesn't much want to have sex with them anyway? I'd rather no sex than that)

Yes, that may lead to the end of a relationship. OP and her H did the right thing in having an honest and frank conversation, though were perhaps naive in their solution.

@BertramLacey

the amount of women that won't 'put out' (for want of a better term that I can't think of at the moment)

Try just calling it what it is - having sex. It's a far better term than the misogynist 'put out' which implies that men want sex and women give it to them reluctantly.

The scarcely concealed misogyny behind the characterisation of the OP and the phrase put out are dispiriting at best. It's a wholly unwarranted transactional description of what (has been?) a largely decent marriage and one that the husband in question is willing to maintain at least in part.

I’m sorry that your life had been turned upside down, it must be really hard for you to hear that your husband has fallen in love with with someone else. I’d suggest seeing a therapist to get clarity in your own mind, and support to help you move forward.

As for what you should do about them - grin and bear it and hope he loses interest, or demand that he stops seeing her. If you grin and bear it, she or he might eventually lose interest in each other but I wonder whether he’d be able to stop looking for that feeling again, once the fire has been lit. He might want more of the same, and clearly it is lacking in your marriage. If you ask him to stop seeing her against his will, it could blow up in your face. Or he might do it to keep the peace but he will be miserable and mourn the loss of her, and all that she represents.

This may be about more than just this other woman. It may be that his needs are not being met, and that his needs are not just about cold sex. Those needs are probably not going to magically disappear.

I know someone who had an open marriage and it worked well for them.

The rules were that neither party chose the outsider before the spouse and you didnt seek anything outside the marriage that you could get in the marriage

So in your case - getting sex elsewhere would be fine as this is not available at home - but meals out walks on beaches and company are available at home (with you) so not acceptable.

As to what to do. you can tell him ist is upsetting you and run the risk that he no longer cares, or he realises he has overstepped a line and withdrawn back to you. But is he doesnt car3e, would you really want to remain with him?

@deadleaves

Nothing slanderous about it. The fact is since meeting someone else he has realised how unfulfilling his marriage is and he doesn't just want a cold pair of shoulders who simply likes the lifestyle

You really just can't stop making stuff up can you? You make stuff up and then attack OP for the stuff you have made up.

You have absolutely no idea what the husband feels about the marriage. It is entirely possible he is very happy with the arrangement. I know someone who has cheated on his partner throughout their relationship due to lack of sex. He still absolutely adores her. His eyes light up when he talks about her. He keeps her in his life as he wants her there as he really likes her.

As I said upthread, the husband has stayed in the marriage so he must get something out of it whether genuine affection/ love for his wife, or lifestyle or whatever. But he has chosen to stay out of his own freely chosen preference.

Because none of us know how he feels about any of this, other than he has freely chosen his life up to now and will make his own free choices in the future, none of us know what he will do next. He may just carry on like this - it might suit him perfectly.

You're getting me and @dryasaboner confused.

The DH has stayed in the marriage out of love and respect to his wife. She on the otherhand has withheld intimacy - that's a lonely 'marriage' for DH. So he respectfully talked to her about where to go from here. OP expected him to shag a stranger with no attachments - that's just not cricket - it's not real life. He clearly realised it wasn't just sex with his wife he was missing, but emotional attachment, and a bond.

@deadleaves, I think that the OP has never been that keen on sex. We understand that after the menopause a lot of women go off sex but weekly as the maximum early in a relationship doesn't seem like enough to me. I did ask up thread if they were still physically affectionate but had no answer. If there is no sex and no physical affection then the situation is bleak.