Open marriage has gone wrong 😑

[PhillyQueen]

Name change for this as previous posts may be outing.

Sex life with DH dried up completely about 8 years ago. It was never stellar but that didn’t seem particularly important to either of us . Our relationship was otherwise perfect, he is a fine person and a great dad to our (now adult) kids and we used to have sex at most weekly, then over the years went to fortnightly and monthly until it tailed off altogether. Neither of us seemed bothered and it wasn’t a big deal and I just assumed that’s what happened in long-term relationships. Life was good even if any passion was long-gone. We have both always had our own friends as well as mutual ones, we both run businesses, we were busy but always looked forward to time together.

After the sex stopped altogether, we avoided the subject for a couple of years then we had the conversation where we both agreed that we wanted to stay together as we love each other but that DH didn’t want to give up that part of his life forever and that if it wasn’t possible with me, he would like to look elsewhere and would prefer to do it with my blessing. So, good idea or not, we had an open marriage policy for a few years and it seemed to work well. It was reciprocal but I wasn’t up for it with anyone , not just him, I’ve never been very sexual. Even though he had a couple of brief affairs, nothing changed with our family life and I was happy enough knowing we could carry on as we were. All good. Not a perfect love story but a practical way of keeping things going, which is what we both wanted.

Only now things have changed. He has met someone he really likes, by his own admission even loves, and I am worried he is going to leave me and our life for her. She is younger than us and very attractive. If I were standing next to her, I would look like her grandmother. He is absolutely smitten with her and for the first time, I feel our marriage is truly in danger.

I feel that DH has violated the terms of our agreement for an open marriage and should stop seeing this woman but he has said he won’t do that, that she makes him happy, and that we agreed that we could both see other people etc. so it’s me that’s being unreasonable. Falling in love with someone else was never part of the deal I agreed to, though.

So what can I do? Grit my teeth and bear it and hope they break up? Or ask him again to stop seeing her otherwise our marriage will have to end?

@Onthedunes

Op I think you are massively underestimating how much he is keen to not let you have more than half his assets.

That's a red herring. If the OP takes things through the correct channels and there is fair division of assets according to the law on their divorce the DH doesn't get to choose. But it doesn't sound like the OP even wants to start discussions about division of assets so it's irrelevant.

One thing I do not believe is that she was the one who ended all sexual intimacy. She has bee gaslighted into believing that.

This is so patronising. The OP is evidently intelligent and self-aware. She has said very clearly that she’s not that interested in sex.

And your response is “Oh, of course you are, you silly sausage. The nasty, manipulative husband has just convinced you you’re not.”

I hate it when men patronise women this way, insisting that they don’t know their own minds. It’s male presumption at its worst.

And I assume you’re a man, @onthedunes. I mean, there’s nothing in your posts to suggest that - but, y’know, the very fact that there’s nothing explicit there to say so pretty much clinches it. Apparently.

'And for those posters who think a marriage with no sex is no marriage at all - not every single aspect of married life will be 100% compatible. I am not a companion or a flat mate, I am a loving wife who shares a life with their DH, we just don’t happen to have sex, it doesn’t make us ‘less than’ and I know plenty of couples who have little-to-no intimacy'

Most husbands and wives with a healthy sex drive would suffer because of no sex/lack of sex in sexless marriage like this and wouldn't carry on.

@daisychain01

Of course he understands the law, that's why he doesn't want to leave the marriage.

He will not allow HIS choices to be taken away. It looks like he's done a pretty good job up to now getting everthing he wants without any losses to himself.

The OP can choose to leave the marriage tomorrow if she so chooses. My point is that she doesn't want to, so it's pointless creating fantasies around what you think the DH feels/wants/knows. You're just speculating.

They would find the person they are sexually compatible with + all the other areas:

1. moral life values

2. intellectually

3. physically

4. spiritually

5. common hobbies & interests

I understand for the sake of not dividing a house and money it can be financially beneficial but for me and many people, this kind of marriage when I really love someone else and have great sex with him such a husband who is just a friend and a companion would be in the way of my true mutual personal happiness.

And I assume you’re a man, @onthedunes. I mean, there’s nothing in your posts to suggest that - but, y’know, the very fact that there’s nothing explicit there to say so pretty much clinches it. Apparently.

There's more than a grain of truth there, me thinks @WalkingOnTheCracks

'The absoluteness of your response of how much sex is involved in a 'healthy' relationship suggests you are quite inexperienced and naive to assume there is a one size fits all response'.

It's clear statistics, it's not my invention.

Age often MATTERS. Because as everyone knows with age over 70-80 the sex drive in men can go lower (just nature made it this way) and after menopause, there are 20-30% of women who could live without sex happily. Again, statistics.

There is time and age for certain activities and behaviours more than the others.

I DID NOT say about 'healthy relations'.

I said about healthy hormones and different levels of sex drive.

At the same time, different nations are more likely to have different levels of sex drive because of the climate they are from and the amount of sun they have.

It's common knowledge that usually people from the south have a higher sex drive than from the north. Statistics again. Of course, there can be different exeptions.

@PhillyQueen

I’ve read all of your messages, thank you. I cannot possibly respond to every point but I hear everything and don’t disagree with some of the seemingly harsher comments.

He’s already told me he wants to stay in our marriage and that he has no intention of stopping seeing this woman, both for sex and other activities. So yes, you’re right, I want him to stay too, for an awful lot of reasons, so I have to navigate a way of coping with his side-relationship. The sex part is far easier to cope with than the going to restaurants and holding hands in cafes because we agreed the former but not the latter. I have to learn how to deal with that and I don’t know how, hence why I posted here. It was surprisingly easy to deal with him having sex elsewhere. He didn’t devote a lot of time to it and I was happy we had found a solution and we were enjoying our lives.

Maybe I do deserve a different life but this is the one I want and I am very sure about that. I’m over 60, I don’t want to start again on my own or with someone else. I’ve had the financial means to leave for decades now had I really wanted to but I just don’t. Everything is fine, even the sex with other women was ok, until he met this one.

Of course I will put up with it, I don’t see an alternative for me, I just want to know how I can deal with it, not if

Why do you think it's up to you to adapt.

You had an agreement. He broke it.

He says he wants to stay in the marriage, this is where you insist on sex only, no dinners, walks or lingerie shopping.

If you don't, he will continue breaking rules and pushing your boundaries further and further.

If he had any respect for you, or feelings, he would hear you and stop seeing her.

I think he's said he wants to stay married because she's told him she doesn't want anything more than what they already have

At the same time people's sex drive depends on

1. age + their healthy weight & fitness

2. healthy diet & regular exercise

3. not to be too stressed with work/life. Too much work, not enough rest, and relaxation can decrease sex drive.

4. vitamins & minerals

Statistically, people have more sex on holidays when they are more relaxed and well-rested. The sun and sea help too.

• 3. not to be too stressed with work/life. Too much work, not enough rest can decrease sex drive. Relaxation is always very important to bring the right hormones levels into place.

In addition to that, there is our genetics that decides what type of sex drive we naturally have - high, average or low and it often can't be forced or changed.

Maybe I do deserve a different life but this is the one I want and I am very sure about that. I’m over 60, I don’t want to start again on my own or with someone else. I’ve had the financial means to leave for decades now had I really wanted to but I just don’t. Everything is fine, even the sex with other women was ok, until he met this one.

Of course I will put up with it, I don’t see an alternative for me, I just want to know how I can deal with it, not if

@PhillyQueen
But the ship has sailed, the horse has bolted.

You do not have a marriage any more. This is partly your own choice. You have got everything you wanted up to now with no losses to yourself.

You no longer have a housemate who is willing to spend time and energy focusing his affection on you any more while having sex with other women in hotel rooms. He is being honest with you about this. A life that includes sex that is fulfilling and part of a loving relationship is a valid choice.

He does not owe you a life of soul-destroying, meaningless sex with a string of women who do not care for him. He did not owe you a life of celibacy.

You don't have to 'start again' on your own or with someone else.
You just need to accept that you don't own your H, you can't dictate his feelings, and keep going with your celibate life. You and your H can remain friends, co-parents, co-grandparents.

You can get used to living on your own, being a mother to your children, a grandmother to any grandchildren. You will have to grieve your loss, and make the most of what you have left.

Hi op, I hope you are ok

I seem to be getting a grilling on here and even been acused of being male (the very thought of it).

I'm sorry if some of my comments have been way off the mark but I tend to get very defensive when it comes to controlling behaviour.

Your husband I should imagine is a very practical and ambitious man with several buisnesses under his belt and someone who is highly attractive to boot.

You seem to be very aware of what his needs are in this marriage.

Is he as aware of what your needs are?

I hope I've not offended you by sugesting he appears to have always got his own way.
Apart from the circumstances of why your sex life dwindled and stopped what he is doing now is cruel and not the actions of a kind man.

If you told him this is not aceptable do you think he would acept going through with an amicable divorce?

We really do work well together as a unit and he is a very good person who I want to grow older with and enjoy our family, travel and, when it happens, retirement with.

That is a lifestyle, not a marriage.

An open marriage relies on the mutual respect that his other 'relations' are non committal and for sex. He has broken this.
besides how long will she want an 'older man' with his amount of baggage (emotional baggage if he wanted to play away so badly).
you should put on your big girl pants and prepare for this to be the beginning of the end. he has crossed the line too far.

Everyone is saying the husband has everything his own way. I think it’s the OP who has had everything her own way. She wants to have her cake and eat it. She expects her husband to stick to soulless sex with strangers in order to ensure she can keep things the way she wants them.
The husband has gone off piste . The OP just doesn’t seem to understand that people have feelings and emotions . It’s not all about having a nice safe lifestyle and money. I know who I think is controlling.

how do you even know she is? either he has done this with someone you know and/or told you about her, which is completely off side or you have gone looking which means your not really happy with this arrangement and challenged him.

I have to navigate a way of coping with his side-relationship. The sex part is far easier to cope with than the going to restaurants and holding hands in cafes because we agreed the former but not the latter. [....] Of course I will put up with it, I don’t see an alternative for me, I just want to know how I can deal with it, not if.

This will sound harsh. But there's a large elephant in the middle of this room, it's trumpeting its head off, and you can only fail to see or hear it if you're wilfully closing your eyes to it. Your husband is in an emotional and sexual relationship with another woman. He's openly told you that you'll have to deal with it because he has no intention of giving that up. Unfortunately, with a set-up like that it's not the OW who is his side relationship. You are.

As to how you deal with that, unfortunately that is a question no one else but you can answer. Members of this site are not you. They're not going to conjure up any magic answers. Your husband has made his position perfectly clear. Either you suck it up and tolerate it, as you seem determined to do, or you don't. Those are your only two choices.

@Washeduponthebeach

Everyone is saying the husband has everything his own way. I think it’s the OP who has had everything her own way. She wants to have her cake and eat it. She expects her husband to stick to soulless sex with strangers in order to ensure she can keep things the way she wants them. The husband has gone off piste . The OP just doesn’t seem to understand that people have feelings and emotions . It’s not all about having a nice safe lifestyle and money. I know who I think is controlling.

You have a point, @washeduponthebeach.

Thing is, OP, what if you do get him to ‘keep things the same’?

My bet would be that in a couple of years you’ll be back here saying, “He’s decided he wants out! That wasn’t the agreement! He says things would stay the same! Forever!”

And some people here will say ‘reneging bastard’. And some will say, ‘what did you expect?’

But actually, you can’t keep things the samd vecause everything has already changed - and that’s going to be true even if both of you agree to carry on as if it were not.

You want to renew a contract that does no one any good. You want your husband to act as though he’s happy when he’s not. And you want everything to stay the same only because you can’t envisage anything you want more than what you have.

It’s all a bit defeated and second-rate, isn’t it? Could you blame him if he were to harbour the hope of more than that?

Hi I'm really sorry for you, I hope it all works out in the end.
I can't believe that it didn't even cross your mind as a possibility, as soon as I read open marriage, I knew what was coming next.
Sending hugs. X

I think you have to ask yourself if this situation is causing more angst than you can take and if it's serving you anymore.

The rules have changed and it's causing you distress, that should be taken into consideration.

If he wants to continue despite causing you pain, you have to ask yourself if this is better than being divorced and living your own life without worrying about what he's doing or not doing?

I don't know if it's still available now, but a few years ago on R4 there was a series of interviews with a married couple, and it sounds SO much like the situation here. Retired couple, very comfortable lifestyle, but the husband felt rejected by his wife, so had an affair. Wife found out, he ended the affair. H&W were interviewed separately by Eddie Mair, and then again a year later to see how things were, and if they'd managed to salvage their marriage.

It was heartbreaking to listen to, but the similarities here are so strong. OP, I appreciate you've got so much else going on in your head, but it might be helpful to you to listen to it, to decide what you want for yourself going forward.

I feel sorry for both of you

You can't work out why a desirable woman doesn't want him. And you don't want him yourself. Not really.

And he's signed up to this for life, you think.

I just don't understand why you think he should put up with this half life. Did he agree to it when your children were still in the home? Did it occur to you that in having a sexless marriage where he could play away, you were at the very least playing a very dangerous game? I don't understand your indignation. If you invite your husband to go off and use other women for sex, anyone with a human heart is likely to engage emotion at some point. There would be something wrong with him if he didn't.

This isn't an open marriage. This is a very odd scenario in which your husband has tried to work perfectly acceptable desires around you while you pick and choose the bits of relationship that you enjoy. Now you're indignant because you haven't been able to control that.

If I was him, I think I would advise him to choose whatever made him happy as I don't think you're particularly interested in whether he's happy. You just want the life you want, period.