Open marriage has gone wrong 😑

[PhillyQueen]

Name change for this as previous posts may be outing.

Sex life with DH dried up completely about 8 years ago. It was never stellar but that didn’t seem particularly important to either of us . Our relationship was otherwise perfect, he is a fine person and a great dad to our (now adult) kids and we used to have sex at most weekly, then over the years went to fortnightly and monthly until it tailed off altogether. Neither of us seemed bothered and it wasn’t a big deal and I just assumed that’s what happened in long-term relationships. Life was good even if any passion was long-gone. We have both always had our own friends as well as mutual ones, we both run businesses, we were busy but always looked forward to time together.

After the sex stopped altogether, we avoided the subject for a couple of years then we had the conversation where we both agreed that we wanted to stay together as we love each other but that DH didn’t want to give up that part of his life forever and that if it wasn’t possible with me, he would like to look elsewhere and would prefer to do it with my blessing. So, good idea or not, we had an open marriage policy for a few years and it seemed to work well. It was reciprocal but I wasn’t up for it with anyone , not just him, I’ve never been very sexual. Even though he had a couple of brief affairs, nothing changed with our family life and I was happy enough knowing we could carry on as we were. All good. Not a perfect love story but a practical way of keeping things going, which is what we both wanted.

Only now things have changed. He has met someone he really likes, by his own admission even loves, and I am worried he is going to leave me and our life for her. She is younger than us and very attractive. If I were standing next to her, I would look like her grandmother. He is absolutely smitten with her and for the first time, I feel our marriage is truly in danger.

I feel that DH has violated the terms of our agreement for an open marriage and should stop seeing this woman but he has said he won’t do that, that she makes him happy, and that we agreed that we could both see other people etc. so it’s me that’s being unreasonable. Falling in love with someone else was never part of the deal I agreed to, though.

So what can I do? Grit my teeth and bear it and hope they break up? Or ask him again to stop seeing her otherwise our marriage will have to end?

@ArranMumma

I don’t think it’s fair to expect him to stay in a passionless “practical” marriage. It worked well for you both for a long time and that’s wonderful but it no longer works for him, and he should be allowed to move on to a more normal and loving relationship xx

Some people settle for that practical marriage but many others want more - love - connection - sex - friendship etc and why not. Life is too short to settle for practical.

oh, one more thing to add, @PhillyQueen - would also second PolySecure. it's a really valuable book for lots of reasons, not just how it approaches nonmonogamy. but it also might help sort some things out in your thinking, too.

at the moment i think you feel like you have to either a) leave or b) suck it up and let this happen. I think there's a potential middle way in embracing non-monogamy more openly, but that isn't necessary the easy option. but then i don't know that either a) or b) are emotionally straightforward either.

As with the couple of other ENM posters, please feel free to DM me if you want to talk about this outside of the thread. I can also recommend a poly-friendly counsellor who does remote work, if you want to talk through this in that kind of setting.

It's clearly (and understandably) messing with your head. You can't carry on like this. I know it won't feel like it right but this is your opportunity to address the issue head on.

oh, and also to add (sorry) - i would recommend that your husband also read up on these resources as well. this isn't just about you learning - he also has some programming to unpick, and will need to learn how to communicate more clearly and openly with you, and how to behave in an actual ENM relationship, especially if your bond is to be made secure.

Working through these things together, and then discussing them once a week/fortnight/month can be a really healthy experience.

OP, I don't mean to be hard on you here, but I can't understand why pps are being so hard on your DH - yes he's not perfect, he cheated in the past - but you've put him in an impossible position. He didn't want a sex worker, he wanted a connection along with sex

I totally understand why her DH is getting a hard time and disagree with more generous interpretations.

They BOTH agreed to the parametres or him seeking sex outside the marriage. They were both naive in thinking those were realistic. That's on both of them.

But his behaviour to her since he fell for this latest woman is appalling. Openly doing his smiling loved up face in front of OP when he reads her texts. Telling OP he isn't going to stop seeing this woman or change what he is doing with her. No, that is not okay,
He knows OP never signed up for that. If that is how he wants to behave he needs to act like a decent person and leave his marriage.
Not torture OP by telling her 'this is how it is now, suck it up.'

Worse is him blaming OP, saying she agreed to all this when she clearly did not, and when she has been clear that the situation is causing her pain.

He is behaving disgracefully, and yes, controllingly. And that is all on him.

@wishfuldreamer

oh, and also to add (sorry) - i would recommend that your husband also read up on these resources as well. this isn't just about you learning - he also has some programming to unpick, and will need to learn how to communicate more clearly and openly with you, and how to behave in an actual ENM relationship, especially if your bond is to be made secure.

Working through these things together, and then discussing them once a week/fortnight/month can be a really healthy experience.

I wouldn't recommend any of this OP.

It is clear that none of this is what you want. Going down the the path recommended by Wishful would just be you trying to persuade yourself of the need to be ok with something you clearly are not ok with. It could probably be compared to something a bit like in the bad old days when gay and lesbian people having therapy to make them ok with having sex/ relationships with opposite sex people.

It will just be a painful headfuck.

I'm sorry OP but I think your marriage was over in all but name when you stopped having an intimate relationship with your husband.

Get your ducks in a row and don't get fucked over in the divorce.

I'm not suggesting that the OP should enter into a poly relationship with her husband. but i do think it's worth her doing some of the reading and thinking about it.

I don't think she's approaching this from an entirely conventional mindset, so I'm not sure it's as simple as saying 'you don't want this, you should just leave'. sometimes, we are more open to things that we think, on reflection.

equally, she may decide that she cannot cope with the idea of her partner being in love with someone else. that is perfectly valid. but the shock is obviously quite raw, and I don't know that she's entirely worked out what it is she wants, or how she feels just yet.

@CrystalBuddha

I think your DH has been disrespectful in not being more discreet about his feelings for this woman - if he hadn’t been mooning over messages and acting like a love-sick puppy then you could have carried on as you were - assuming he has no plans to try and make a go of it with the other woman. Of course ‘feelings’ can be expected when your DH meets and has sex with another woman, that’s only natural and possibly naive to think that wouldn’t happen. But, the chemistry/love he feels for this woman doesn’t have to diminish the love he feels for you. It is very possible to be romantically in love with two people and with no plans to change the dynamics of the set up. I should know, I am your DH in my own marriage. I love my DH, we have a loving life together, but no sex, this was largely his decision and not a path I thought I would walk as I am a very sexual person. I have a DP outside of my marriage who I love very much and he loves me right back. (DP is also married and loves his wife dearly too) Do I want to be with DP full-time, no. Do I enjoy his company and enjoy non-sex activities, yes. Am I going to blow up my marriage over this - no. The main difference I see is that in order to be respectful to my DH I have to be discreet, so no mooning over text messages, no making it obvious how much I enjoy my DP, I don’t want my DH hurting or sad the way you are. If I were you I’d have a chat with DH and just explain that the way he’s going about this is making you feel insecure and jealous, could he please be more discreet and thoughtful. I wouldn’t enjoy an ultimatum from my DH and if it came to that I would feel really resentful towards him. There are lots of ways to love people, more than one person at a time even, so I wouldn’t necessarily worry too much about that aspect, but DH really does need to think about your feelings and protect you more than he has been doing. And for those posters who think a marriage with no sex is no marriage at all - not every single aspect of married life will be 100% compatible. I am not a companion or a flat mate, I am a loving wife who shares a life with their DH, we just don’t happen to have sex, it doesn’t make us ‘less than’ and I know plenty of couples who have little-to-no intimacy but aren’t just going to chuck the baby away with the bath water over one aspect that doesn’t function. There are worse things in a marriage than a lack of sex - also been there in the past.

Be discreet you’re just having a glorified affair.

I don't think he is a narcissist or is abusive. Those are throw away labels that reduce human behavior down to an overly simplistic narrative of 'you're wrong I'm right'. They are also completely misused on here and come with very little indepth understanding. Most knowledge on the subject banded around on here comes from Google via armchair psychology soundbites.

I think it's painfully obvious from the outside that this marriage has run its course and he is now in love with someone else. It doesn't matter what the shared history is, he will no doubt be looking at his twilight years weighing up whether he wants to spend it in a warm loving and sexually fulfilling partnership or with a friend. Sadly I think no matter how is trying to reassure you now its a matter of time before he initiates a split.

Sorry OP but I think you're going to be spending your time looking over your shoulder. Better to deal with it now whilst you are still on good terms.

@Tokyotammy

I don't think he is a narcissist or is abusive. Those are throw away labels that reduce human behavior down to an overly simplistic narrative of 'you're wrong I'm right'. They are also completely misused on here and come with very little indepth understanding. Most knowledge on the subject banded around on here comes from Google via armchair psychology soundbites.

I think it's painfully obvious from the outside that this marriage has run its course and he is now in love with someone else. It doesn't matter what the shared history is, he will no doubt be looking at his twilight years weighing up whether he wants to spend it in a warm loving and sexually fulfilling partnership or with a friend. Sadly I think no matter how is trying to reassure you now its a matter of time before he initiates a split.

Sorry OP but I think you're going to be spending your time looking over your shoulder. Better to deal with it now whilst you are still on good terms.

Completely agree

@MargosKaftan - I think the problem I have with you and some of the other posters on here is that you assume sex must and can only occur as part of a complete and loving relationship.

That's not the case. There are many people who choose to only engage in one night stands, casual sex etc because they don't want the romantic entanglement, yet still crave a physical release which masturbation alone doesn't provide. Look at the many posts on MN alone about no-strings sex, fuck buddies etc. It may not be acceptable to you but it's very common. Sex doesn't have to lead to cosy dates and emotional entanglement.

Personally, I'm crap at one night stands etc. I find it hard to separate love and emotions - but I've had partners who have been very different in that regard. And like hell would I ever agree to an open marriage! Every time I've seen it, the end result has been disastrous. I'm not a fan of any of it, and I think it was a terrible, terrible idea for the OP.

Another PP mentioned on here that with an open marriage, it's common to have a rule that you only meet up once with another person for sex before moving onto someone else. That prevents developing feelings and the whole "smiling at texts" that the OP is having to endure.

Absolutely and without question, the DH brought this on by agreeing to go on dates, have romantic liaisons without sex etc. If he hadn't been doing any of that, the chances of falling in love would have been remote. And if he wasn't prepared to stick to the rules they agreed, he shouldn't have bloody well agreed to them.

I do think that the OP was sadly short sighted and really should have either let him go, or have been willing to explore ways to reignite her sex drive. However, that doesn't give her DH the right to utterly abuse the trust she put in him to stick to what they agreed. He's basically stuck two fingers up at her - I can't see any love or care in his behaviour.

@PhillyQueen

Posted too soon. I don’t want the kids to hate their dad or change their relationship with him over this. It’s between us and has nothing to do with them.

If your husband continues his relationship (or future ones) you need to prepare for your children finding out.

There was a thread on here a few weeks back with the poster having been out for lunch with friends and spotting her FIL with another woman, with the poster then in a quandary about telling her husband or MIL. If your husband and his woman are having meals out, going for walks etc even if they're not in your immediate area it is surprising where family or friends can pop up unexpectedly,

[quote SpidersAreShitheads]@Subbaxeo I totally agree it must have been devastating for the DH to be told that he can go and get sex elsewhere. And I think that if sex was part of their relationship originally, to decide you're giving it up is unfair to the other partner.

But.....DH had a choice. If he was unhappy he could have left the relationship. He agreed to seek sexual fulfilment elsewhere, but only sex, not romance. There are plenty of people who are able to separate sex and romance, so theoretically it's possible, although of course there is a risk when you're physically intimate with someone that feelings will develop.

I don't blame him for falling in love with someone he was having sex with. But that doesn't tell the full story does it?

What I do blame him for, and the reason that I think he's borderline abusive is that:

a) he has deliberately engaged in non-sexual activities such as going for walks, dinners, dates etc - you wouldn't normally do any of that if you're just engaging in sex. HIs actions have deliberately brought about the "falling in love" and he has sought it out, not tried to stop it.

b) his behaviour blatantly ignores the boundaries the OP and he agreed and he doesn't seem to care about her feelings on this

c) he expects OP to just accept that he loves another woman, and expects her to accept that he will be taking the other woman on romantic dates and sharing non-sexual experiences

d) he rebukes OP for asking a question that isn't what they originally agreed - despite the fact that he's broken all of their agreements himself.

e) he refuses to give up the other woman and expects OP to accept that he will essentially be pursuing a full relationship with the other woman - sex plus dates, walks, messaging etc - and he expects her to put up with it.

So in a nutshell, yes I do feel that the original decision was rough on the DH. But he agreed to and chose this solution - and yet has deliberately gone out of his way to abuse the trust he was given by OP. The OP's self-esteem seems to be rock bottom and I strongly suspect that the DH knows he can get away with doing whatever the fuck he wants. Maybe on some level he's trying to punish her for "rejecting" him sexually? If he can't stick to what they agreed, he should be ending his marriage - even though OP is desperate to cling onto whatever remnants of her marriage that remains.[/quote]
Yes-for me it would have been better to separate so at least there is honesty in any potential relationship. But it’s understandable on several levels why this wasn’t an option. I would separate if it were me now, but it’s not what she wants. So I kind of think she just has to tolerate the situation. I think it’s unreasonable to expect the husband to give up someone he has a genuine connection with to go back to a sexless marriage.

'IWillFindYou

It’s really heartbreaking to read how many people think you can’t love/be in love with or that couples are ”only” roommates or friends if there isin’t sex.
It’s really sad.

There are people out here who are able to romantically love just so you know.

Their live isin’t less than because lack of sex.'

How old are you to say this I wonder? :)

A husband or a wife with healthy hormones and a high ( a desire 2-3 days a week or every day or nearly every day) or average (once a week or twice a month) sex drive would NOT be happy and would be sexually starved and unsatisfied in a sexless marriage.

Low sex drive is once a month or less.

OP he has betrayed your trust and broken the terms of your agreement with him. He is having an affair and this is NOT what you agreed to and he knows this! He's being very manipulative in this case to not admit he'a in the wrong here. I don't know how to advise you to deal with this new scenario except to say that I don't think you should have to! He either stops seeing her and you have a 1/2 time liaison open relationship rule moving forward, or you go your separate ways. It's totally understandable that this betrayal on his part has hurt you and he needs to finish it to stay with you. No man is worth continuing on with if he keeps with her, as he's not exactly the loving brilliant life partner you're hanging on to if he would do that to you is he?

As others have said, let him go with grace and dignity. I'm sure he didn't go out looking for this, but if you love him, you shouldn't let him lose his chance of true happiness before he's too old. I'm guessing you'd want the same for yourself if it was the other way around?

He’s already told me he wants to stay in our marriage and that he has no intention of stopping seeing this woman, both for sex and other activities.

Do you really want to stay in such an unequal marriage?

He’s got everything. You have the bits of him he’s prepared to share, when he’s not sharing them with another woman. And even if you feel you are not sexual, wouldn’t you rather be with someone also not sexual instead of someone who is only sharing sex with another, but not you?

This is what abusive men do OP. Be careful.

@wishfuldreamer that sounds really interesting

He’s already told me he wants to stay in our marriage and that he has no intention of stopping seeing this woman, both for sex and other activities

Is that because he has no option atm to pursue it full time? If she gave him the green light, or if he gets to know her for a bit longer, will that change?

Op I think you are massively underestimating how much he is keen to not let you have more than half his assets.

The agreement was just sex, no dating (other than maybe an initial meeting) and no overnights. I didn’t demand this, this is what DH came up with and I agreed to it.

So your DH has broken the terms of your agreement - and yet, when you ask him for details he refuses to give them to you because that's not what you agreed!? I'd be blowing my top at that part alone, OP. What a patronising, dismissive, hypocritical way for him to behave.

I think you really seriously need to consider how much you can put up with here without it harming your mental health and self esteem, because if you are only asking for advice on how to stay with him (not whether you should stay with him or not) then at the very least you are somehow going to have to reconcile the fact that he feels the rules don't apply to him but they do still apply to you

Does he act like this in other areas of life? Essentially, he is allowed to move the goalposts but you are not An open marriage would never be for me but I would think it can only be functional if it's based on trust, and he is showing you here that he is not trustworthy at all.

I agree with PP that it isn't really an open relationship anyway, and I agree with your assessment that this was probably always coming. I guess the question is what you are prepared to sacrifice in order to stay married to him for now - and I would bear in mind that this looks like a very slippery slope, you don't want to allow you boundaries to be trampled all over now to preserve the marriage only to find that he ups and leaves you in five years anyway. I know he is telling you now that nothing will change but he told you before that there'd be no dating and falling in love, didn't he?

To be honest @Lana07 I'm not sure you are the one to be asking how old other posters are ! The absoluteness of your response of how much sex is involved in a 'healthy' relationship suggests you are quite inexperienced and naive to assume there is a one size fits all response . If you have RTFT I'm surprised you still think this to be honest .