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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Open marriage has gone wrong 😑

999 replies

PhillyQueen · 02/10/2021 20:42

Name change for this as previous posts may be outing.

Sex life with DH dried up completely about 8 years ago. It was never stellar but that didn’t seem particularly important to either of us . Our relationship was otherwise perfect, he is a fine person and a great dad to our (now adult) kids and we used to have sex at most weekly, then over the years went to fortnightly and monthly until it tailed off altogether. Neither of us seemed bothered and it wasn’t a big deal and I just assumed that’s what happened in long-term relationships. Life was good even if any passion was long-gone. We have both always had our own friends as well as mutual ones, we both run businesses, we were busy but always looked forward to time together.

After the sex stopped altogether, we avoided the subject for a couple of years then we had the conversation where we both agreed that we wanted to stay together as we love each other but that DH didn’t want to give up that part of his life forever and that if it wasn’t possible with me, he would like to look elsewhere and would prefer to do it with my blessing. So, good idea or not, we had an open marriage policy for a few years and it seemed to work well. It was reciprocal but I wasn’t up for it with anyone , not just him, I’ve never been very sexual. Even though he had a couple of brief affairs, nothing changed with our family life and I was happy enough knowing we could carry on as we were. All good. Not a perfect love story but a practical way of keeping things going, which is what we both wanted.

Only now things have changed. He has met someone he really likes, by his own admission even loves, and I am worried he is going to leave me and our life for her. She is younger than us and very attractive. If I were standing next to her, I would look like her grandmother. He is absolutely smitten with her and for the first time, I feel our marriage is truly in danger.

I feel that DH has violated the terms of our agreement for an open marriage and should stop seeing this woman but he has said he won’t do that, that she makes him happy, and that we agreed that we could both see other people etc. so it’s me that’s being unreasonable. Falling in love with someone else was never part of the deal I agreed to, though.

So what can I do? Grit my teeth and bear it and hope they break up? Or ask him again to stop seeing her otherwise our marriage will have to end?

OP posts:
InFiveMins · 03/10/2021 17:03

So he's out having a whale of a time and you're at home feeling like shit.

I'd end the 'open marriage' arrangements and tell him he has to choose. No way could I continue to live as sloppy seconds waiting for him at home.

SuperstoreFan · 03/10/2021 17:04

@Onthedunes

If this man is a narcisist he will have convinced her that she is the one who is abusive and therfor by extention everyone who is reading this.

Her narative is his.

Why are you so desperate to paint the husband as an abuser when everything the OP has posted contradicts that?
MargosKaftan · 03/10/2021 17:11

@Spiderareshitheads - but if he wasn't going to also have a romantic relationship with these woman, how did thr op expect it to get to the point they would agree to have sex with him? Was he supposed to pay prostitutes?

Of course practically, having another woman to have sex with would include a romantic relationship with her. That the two go together should occur to most people. He would need to get close enough to another woman for her to decide she wanted to have regular sex with him. This would include dates and walks and an emotional as well as physical connection. Of course he's also had this with his other affair partners, just this one means more to him.

It might come to nothing. It could be she doesn't want a proper relationship and this suits her. He could get bored or find someone else. Or this could be the one who makes him brave enough to end the failing marriage.

Onthedunes · 03/10/2021 17:14

@SpidersAreShitheads

I agree he is abusive, he has upped his game and is now being sadistic.

He knows how much this hurts his wife, it is intentional.

One thing I do not believe is that she was the one who ended all sexual intimacy. She has bee gaslighted into believing that.

Another poster commented on that she had the chance to get her libido back.
After him having numerous affairs before they ceased having sex. Because op didn't want him using her at the same time as other women, sounds more likely.

She's been punished for aserting boundries and I know people will say she should have left but leaving a narc is extremely hard even dangerous if they do not wish the marriage to end.

Christ she's even questioning herself asking if this is ok, her husband coming home and telling her he's in love with another woman, whilst at the same time saying everthing's as normal.
As you were.

That is not a normal man, with normal feelings, he has no guilt, no empathy, no heart.

SuperstoreFan · 03/10/2021 17:16

One thing I have noticed is that OP expects her husband to fuck other women without developing feelings and that she doesn't understand why 'OW' is with him despite saying that he is attractive and a good man etc.

It's almost like she wasn't expecting him to take her up on her offer and now he's realised that he can get sex elsewhere she's pissed off.

whycantwegoonasthree · 03/10/2021 17:23

@onthedune - I think you might be projecting, because nothing the OP has said bares any relation to your characterisation here.

Thisisworsethananticpated · 03/10/2021 17:23

SuperstoreFanL
That’s so nasty
OP is a real Human being and is hurting
And what , you never make mistakes ?

I don’t understand why you’d even type that Sad

Onthedunes · 03/10/2021 17:24

@SuperstoreFan

It's because she knows deep down this man has no feelings.

He's a narc.

He's love bombing the ow.

He's in total control.

XingMing · 03/10/2021 17:28

Disclaimer: I have only read the first and last pages. To me, 65 and married for almost 30 years, it just sounds as if your marriage has run out of steam. Your DH sounds kind and considerate, but frustrated by your lack of sexual interest. In your position, I would try to negotiate a friendly even-handed separation of assets followed by a no-fault divorce. You need the freedom to try something new for your own mental health without having to refer to anyone but you.

If you play this kindly, and sensibly, your exH will remain your friend, his new partner may become your friendly acquaintance, and you may discover pastures new. BUT I don't think the status quo can be maintained. You are going to have to move from your comfortable fortress and make new friends and acquaintances, and possibly meet someone new. Venture out OP, there is always hope. And good luck.

ElsieMc · 03/10/2021 17:28

I don't think this relationship will last long term. They are happy for now, but op says there is a big age difference. If he is in his sixties and she is in her forties, her future with him could end up as a carer for her elderly partner. That is a big eye opener. Everything now is in the honeymoon stage.

I think he may well have always been looking for a long term loving relationship and the open aspect of the relationship made that easy for him.

Sadly for you op, you are now in a position where he has really picked someone over you, over your feelings and general well being. You cannot carry on like this. If this relationship ends, there will be another one and you are awaiting the inevitable.

He wants to keep you as a companion, organiser of the house and kids etc but with none of the dates, outings etc that come with being a real partner any more.

Dont ask him to make a decision and choose. You need to make a decision soon for your peace of mind. Can you confide in your family? Don't shy away from this because it will come out eventually. I think once you tell someone in real life close to you, reality will hit you.

Onthedunes · 03/10/2021 17:35

@whycantwegoonasthree, I agree projection does come into this as it does with most posters views but I could reel a long list of reasons why I believe this man is a cold calculating narcisist but if the op herself doesn't know what he is, then it all sounds fanciful.

Narcisists never willingly release anyone, even when they have been discarded, its about control in everything.

I could give a number of scenarios of how this will progress but none of them will involve the op being left alone to be happy in a new life with someone else.

It's not going to happen, whether he sets up with this new woman is irelavant.

VenusTiger · 03/10/2021 17:44

[quote Onthedunes]@VenusTiger

I don't want sex from you, but I want everything else with you, deal with it, theres a good boy"

You honestly believe this?[/quote]
Nothing to do with 'believe' - the OP has told us this.

She WANTS to keep her marriage, her lifestyle, travel etc. with her husband, but she WANTS him to only find sex elsewhere - to hell with what is attached to sex, to hell with the OW - who according to the OP should be a mute blow up doll with no feelings. She WANTS her husband to be cold and use a woman for sex only.
So that she can continue to stay 'happily' married.

She is in fact controlling this. She can't now tell her DH NOT to have feelings and connections emotionally or intimately. The OP was naive in thinking the only thing missing from their marriage was a bit of in-and-out - it's intimacy that was missing and she wasn't prepared to fix it, or at least try. Instead she spoke to 2 friends who also don't like sex with their partners, one who wishes to remain ignorant and 'let the partner get the blame if he leaves' and another who is oblivious to the problem and thinks everything will be alright.

OP, I don't mean to be hard on you here, but I can't understand why pps are being so hard on your DH - yes he's not perfect, he cheated in the past - but you've put him in an impossible position. He didn't want a sex worker, he wanted a connection along with sex.

You should let him go.

Journeyofthedragons · 03/10/2021 18:01

Why are you so desperate to paint the husband as an abuser when everything the OP has posted contradicts that?

alL mEnZ iS bAd

BertramLacey · 03/10/2021 18:02

Of course I will put up with it, I don’t see an alternative for me, I just want to know how I can deal with it, not if

But you're asking us to give pretty much impossible advice OP. You're saying you want to stay with your husband despite the fact that he is either in love with or infatuated by another woman. You're saying you want to stay because, well, I'm not sure really. You like having him around and don't want to change things. Trouble is, things have changed.

I can't tell you how to deal with it. I can't give you strategies for staying in a relationship that no longer meets your needs or your partner's. I mean you could just keep quiet and stick your head in the sand. He'll either keep this woman as his mistress and have you as his wife, leave you for her, or split up. But all of that involves what he will do, not what you will do. You can wait this out, but why? To what end?

Either you wait it out and see what happens or you take control and take steps to leave. But I suspect the former will ultimately be very damaging to you.

TractorAndHeadphones · 03/10/2021 18:05

[quote MargosKaftan]@Spiderareshitheads - but if he wasn't going to also have a romantic relationship with these woman, how did thr op expect it to get to the point they would agree to have sex with him? Was he supposed to pay prostitutes?

Of course practically, having another woman to have sex with would include a romantic relationship with her. That the two go together should occur to most people. He would need to get close enough to another woman for her to decide she wanted to have regular sex with him. This would include dates and walks and an emotional as well as physical connection. Of course he's also had this with his other affair partners, just this one means more to him.

It might come to nothing. It could be she doesn't want a proper relationship and this suits her. He could get bored or find someone else. Or this could be the one who makes him brave enough to end the failing marriage. [/quote]
Not true - plenty of women who want to sleep around with no string attached. Have you never heard of FWB, one-night stands, casual sex?
In fact in many 'open' marriages one night stands only is a hard rule

Bananarama21 · 03/10/2021 18:05

Onthedunes you need to get some help your massively projecting when there's nothing there. Ops dh had 'affairs' 2within their open marriage. She was the one that cut all intimacy, her dh told her he needed that part and she accepted an open marriage based on maintaining their marriage.

REDHERO · 03/10/2021 18:14

Don't hold someone that doesn't want to be with you. No dignity it that at all. Divorce

toocold54 · 03/10/2021 18:15

Of course I will put up with it, I don’t see an alternative for me, I just want to know how I can deal with it, not if

I think he has the best of both worlds so I don’t think he would want to leave you.
However I would worry if she wanted more and gave him an ultimatum - what would he choose? Or that you will never be ok with him seeing her and it’s going to affect your mental health over time.

Brokeandtired3 · 03/10/2021 18:15

I feel like with all these unconventional relationship aspects at play here op, you are forgetting the man thing

At the end of the day you are in a relationship with this man open or not. He is your husband.

but he has not once been considerate of your feelings or put you before himself. That is very telling of things. You need to think really hard here. It sounds very his way or the high way. No husband should want to chose what will hurt his wife for his own satisfaction.

All this talk of you wont find anyone else and that's why you wont leave your husband

YES YOU WILL! assuming you are around the same age as your husband 60 now and days is NOT OLD. Plenty of people date around this age. Dont give up on yourself and dont give up on love and simply settle for this.

wishfuldreamer · 03/10/2021 18:16

Hi OP. I've read the whole thread, and have been thinking about you this evening. Like @whycantwegoonasthree, i'm also polyamorous (though not with as much experience). To give you some context on my life and where I'm coming from - because i think non-monogamous perspectives might be just as helpful as those reading this through a monogamous marriage lens - i have been poly for about 2.5 years. I currently have three partners - one I've been with for 2 years, and two more recent ones who I have been dating since July-ish (partner is a bit of a strong word for both of these, but....). I had another partner who I split up with earlier in the summer, who was my 'original' partner (though i was single when we got together, and he is poly).

so...a number of thoughts.

The first is that you can, certainly, 'cheat' in a poly relationship - and that is through violating or breaking boundaries. Though, falling in love isn't usually one of them, given the context of poly relationships being about multiple loving, committed relationships. These kinds of rules are more common in other forms of ethical non-monogamy (such as swinging, open relationships), where the rules are to protect the primary/original relationship. I don't personally consider them super helpful, because i think emotions are hard to control, and falling in love is something that happens to be quite easily.

For some people, breaking these rules or agreements is enough to end the relationship. For others, it's about recognising that relationships, and the terms under which we operate in them, change all the time. You have already seen this happen in your own marriage, when you realised you didn't want to have a sexual relationship anymore. For them, what then happens is a renegotiation of the relationship with the new knowledge - as you did in deciding on an open relationship.

Ok, so there's that - which is a complicated question in itself. Do you feel like there was enough deception and dishonesty to feel like the respect in the relationship is irreparably broken, or do you think you still want to try and find a way through? Coincidentally, the multiamory episode last week, the podcast @whycan'twegoonasthree mentioned, was about cheating in ENM. might be worth a listen: www.multiamory.com/podcast/341-cheating-in-non-monogamous-relationships

ok, so there's that element to this - whether or not this is 'cheating'. and you have to decide how you feel about that. but then there is the question of how you go on, if you think that this is something you don't want to end your relationship over.

Firstly, I will say that I'm really not a fan of veto powers. It doesn't mesh with how i see relationship structures, and I don't like such prescriptive hierarchies. I won't date anyone who has a relationship where my metamour (my partner's partner) can exercise a veto over our relationship. you might feel differently, but exercising a veto is a difficult thing to do without damaging the relationship - forcing someone to choose between two people they love, even if one relationship is much newer, is often the road to resentment. It's the same as an ultimatum about anything in a relationship (more children, moving country etc). it so often doesn't work

Coping with the idea that your partner is falling in love with someone else, and the insecurity that can bring, is hard. and it might change your relationship with your husband; your pattern of seeing each other may change. trusting him not to leave you though...you have to trust him. just as everyone, really, has to trust the person they love. marriage doesn't really tie us to people in the way we think. the relationship format doesn't really give us the security we think it does. divorces happen. marriages end.

My partner once said to me that he 'felt secure in our relationship because even though I could choose to be with anyone, and often did, i also kept choosing him, over and over again'. I don't choose him to be the only one, but we both accept that it is possible to fall in love with other people, and still be in love with each other.

That is perhaps a hard thing to understand, especially if you've been in a largely monogamous marriage, and one which is, up until recently, emotionally monogamous, even if not sexually so. and it might not be something you can ever accept or feel happy with. but, given that you want to stay with your husband, and it's not impossible that your DADT arrangement may bleed into emotions again at some point, it's probably worth thinking carefully about what it is that makes you feel insecure.

The reason i say this, is because we have an understanding in monogamous culture that if you partner is in love with someone else, it must be because they don't really love you anymore. So is your insecurity being triggered because you are worried that he can't be telling the truth - that if he's falling in love with her, he must be preparing to leave you/will leave you eventually? It might be that this is how your husband's mind works, but it might not be. he might genuinely be able to love both of you.

Ok. Final point. If he does love her, it is possible that your relationship - and his relationship with her - will change. As we started with, relationships change all the time. This is actually a key essence of polyamory; that relationships change, as do our feelings. someone who we used to live with full time, may be someone in 10 years time that we have a close, affectionate, loving friendship with, but we only live with half the year, so we can see another partner. What is generally accepted, though, is that these discussions happen openly. In operating a 'don't ask, don't tell' policy, it's been hard for you and your husband to have these discussions - and he has, in the process, drifted from your original agreement probably assuming he could keep the feelings in check. As others have said, if you decide you do want to try and continue together, you will have to learn to be much more open - and that your relationship is going through a (or rather its second) fundamental change.

ok...that was long, and maybe not as coherent as i hoped, but i have to go have a bath, so apologies!

ArranMumma · 03/10/2021 18:19

I don’t think it’s fair to expect him to stay in a passionless “practical” marriage. It worked well for you both for a long time and that’s wonderful but it no longer works for him, and he should be allowed to move on to a more normal and loving relationship xx

Macaroni46 · 03/10/2021 18:21

"She WANTS to keep her marriage, her lifestyle, travel etc. with her husband, but she WANTS him to only find sex elsewhere - to hell with what is attached to sex, to hell with the OW - who according to the OP should be a mute blow up doll with no feelings. She WANTS her husband to be cold and use a woman for sex only.
So that she can continue to stay 'happily' married.

She is in fact controlling this. She can't now tell her DH NOT to have feelings and connections emotionally or intimately. The OP was naive in thinking the only thing missing from their marriage was a bit of in-and-out - it's intimacy that was missing and she wasn't prepared to fix it, or at least try. Instead she spoke to 2 friends who also don't like sex with their partners, one who wishes to remain ignorant and 'let the partner get the blame if he leaves' and another who is oblivious to the problem and thinks everything will be alright.

OP, I don't mean to be hard on you here, but I can't understand why pps are being so hard on your DH - yes he's not perfect, he cheated in the past - but you've put him in an impossible position. He didn't want a sex worker, he wanted a connection along with sex.

You should let him go."

Completely agree with all of this ^

Macaroni46 · 03/10/2021 18:25

@Onthedunes where does it say that he had numerous affairs before OP stopped having sex?
She says, they stopped being intimate then after two years they agreed to an open marriage at which point he had 'affairs'.
Completely different!

REDHERO · 03/10/2021 18:25

@Blackbird2020

Your DH is not a nice person. He’s shifted the boundaries of your agreement to suit him, without a thought for the hurt he’s causing his wife (who he doesn’t even want to leave!).

Where is your anger?! Does this man you married have zero empathy for the woman he spent most of his adult life with, who raised your children together with, who was brave enough to discuss and undertake an open marriage with?!

A good, honest and respectful person would come to you first, tell you things are changing for him, ask you how you feel, tell you he understands if you want to end the marriage because of this, basically OWN HIS SITUATION. Instead you had to ask the questions, he blurs the lines and tells you it’s OK because it’s an ‘open marriage’, he refuses to return to what was previously agreed, but also refuses to leave his marriage.

What. An. Immature. Typical. Bloody. Entitled. Bloke.

OP - wake up and see who your DH has become. He doesn’t deserve you.

I disagree.

Many people need a loving sex life in a marriage. A marriage without sex which OP has agreed he can source elsewhere is a friendship. Suits the OP for convenience and meets her needs. Is he not allowed to seek a more fulfilling relationship with love and sex and friendship which the OP cannot give.

He is not entitled at all. He has to sit around with his wife who has no sexual desire at all and completely ignore all of his needs! They are totally incompatible - should she deny him not only sex but love also.

BiscuitLover09876 · 03/10/2021 18:27

Op I haven't read all the posts but I've read all of yours. I think it's a little unfair he agreed to only have sex and now he's asking for more than sex. Do you think he knows how you feel?

The question is, would you be happy to stay with him if he stays in love wirh this woman and continues to see her more and more?

You went into an open marriage together and it's really important you go through it all together, especially if he is as good a man as you say. If you look at it from his perspective, you really have a right to talk about this properly with him and make some decisions.

I know you don't want to leave him op. Unfortunately if this love continues he may be the one to leave you, even if this was not his intention. Sex is a big part of relationships so I really think you need to take a stand on all this, or realise that if you're missing out on the sex life and he spends time with this woman anyway, surely you really are just friends?

In which case, maybe you should take control of the situation and keep it friends in a way that makes you happy?

I'd really get some counselling for yourself so you know where you own head is at and can be sure of yourself. It seems like you're going to need to be more independent over all of this. Good luck. :)