Where do they hide the normal men?

[Ihaveroyallyscrewedup]

Is there some island they all live on, some secret place only a few know of?
The most recent seemed like a safe bet, known each other for many years, well enough to know a fair amount of detail about each other’s lives. In that time he’s always seemed stable, good job, own house, two children he has three days a week, wise enough to have asked my advice before he has taken action because he has recognised he may be unreasonable and being a dick. For reasons which are irrelevant we have never dated but there has always been chemistry so we found ourselves in a place where we think ok let’s date and suddenly he’s turned in to this unreliable, non communicative man who treats a suggestion of lunch as if you had just proposed marriage, buying a house and having triplets all at the same time!
So time to throw this one back which is a shame as we have been friends a long time.

Well if all men were gay then we'd really struggle to get dates surely

(I have a very mixed experience with gay friends and acquaintances anyway).

@Shehasadiamondinthesky

The only decent men I know are gay. My gay friends never let me down. Why can't they all be like that?

Same and hear this from women a lot Most likely because they are not treating us according to whether they think we are fuckable or not and whether they have a chance

I think earlier posters got it right with normal, decent men marrying early and women don't divorce normal, decent men!

One also has to be open minded about prospective partners. Of my married friends, those who have stable relationships have partners who on the surface may be a no. One isn't great with money but an excellent husband and dad, one where the physical side is lacking yet a loving husband and great with family, and finally one who only ever saw prostitutes pre marriage yet now is again a great dad/husband (I appreciate the latter sounds quite atrocious). I've never met anyone who seems to have it all apart from reading about them on mumsnet

‘ , and finally one who only ever saw prostitutes pre marriage yet now is again a great dad/husband (I appreciate the latter sounds quite atrocious). I've never met anyone who seems to have it all apart from reading about them on mumsnet’

Wow if that doesn’t sun up just exactly how low the car is for men
They can think consent can be bought , purchase women like a commodity and still be called good

Revolting

How low the bar is for men

@Kittenlittlen yes, I agree it's a weird scenario but the bloke ended up reasonably happily married with his first non prostitute girlfriend (who I know).

I think earlier posters got it right with normal, decent men marrying early and women don't divorce normal, decent men!

Except that they clearly do. There was a rather depressing long thread on here a few years ago where women discussed leaving their husbands because basically they felt their marriages had flat lined, were bored and felt that there was a lack of X factor or whatever in their lives. They mostly admitted that their DHs were decent, loving hard working men who would be devastated by a separation but they had fallen out of love and wanted to move on, it was all very sad.

@JustAnother0ldMan

So where ARE all these ‘good men ‘ congregating who don’t use degrading sites or speak crap in pubs and on dating sites

We are just normal people doing normal things in plain view, going to the shops, walking down the high street, going to the tip, we don’t congregate anywhere (maybe some of us do), but I’m so ordinary that you would walk past me without without even noticing it

Exactly. Not all men (in fact probably a minority) will be going out socialising in pubs/clubs, etc. Lots, maybe the majority, will be doing other things, such as hobbies, sports, work, or whatever. My OH has never been in a club and only been in pubs either with me or with work colleagues for birthday lunches etc. I met him through work. In fact, all 3 relationships I've had were with people I met through work.

It's like the old Insanity quote of people constantly doing the same thing but expecting different results. That's what happens if you seek a man in a pub/club or OLD - it's the same "type" of men who are looking for women in pubs/clubs or OLD. If you want a different outcome, you need to try looking in different places for different types of men.

Two of my nieces married in the last couple of years. Oddly their mums said the same thing exactly 'he's a really lovely guy but not very tall '. For context both lads are a bit taller than the girls - except when they wear 4 inch stilletos! Years ago one of my aunts - who was a six footer - seriously considered having part of her femurs removed. I found this terribly sad. Now body fascism is being inflicted on young men too.

@Eesha

I think earlier posters got it right with normal, decent men marrying early and women don't divorce normal, decent men!

One also has to be open minded about prospective partners. Of my married friends, those who have stable relationships have partners who on the surface may be a no. One isn't great with money but an excellent husband and dad, one where the physical side is lacking yet a loving husband and great with family, and finally one who only ever saw prostitutes pre marriage yet now is again a great dad/husband (I appreciate the latter sounds quite atrocious). I've never met anyone who seems to have it all apart from reading about them on mumsnet

I think your first paragraph is really unfair. I’m divorced (my wife had affairs). Does that make me not normal or decent?

@Abhannmor

Two of my nieces married in the last couple of years. Oddly their mums said the same thing exactly 'he's a really lovely guy but not very tall '. For context both lads are a bit taller than the girls - except when they wear 4 inch stilletos! Years ago one of my aunts - who was a six footer - seriously considered having part of her femurs removed. I found this terribly sad. Now body fascism is being inflicted on young men too.

Oh come on Sure this woman might be over the top but women are allowed to have preferences for physical traits in the men they date Many men certainly have plenty of physical preferences in women

That’s not body fascism

And yes body fascism is terrible against women but I certainly don’t think it’s happening to men too anywhere like what women experience it

And yes body fascism is terrible against women but I certainly don’t think it’s happening to men too anywhere like what women experience it

I think younger men today are held to a much higher standard physically then previous generations. Most of the men I see down my gym are not there to excel at a chosen sport they are there to get that 'love Island' physique. Cosmetic surgery by men has exploded in the last 20 years, the men's grooming products section in boots or wherever is now a whole aisle of products rather then just a shelf of razors and deodorants, steroid abuse amongst young men is off the charts as are eating disorders. I agree that women have had to put up with more unreasonable body expectations for donkey years but sadly the expectations on young men are fast catching up.

It's like the old Insanity quote of people constantly doing the same thing but expecting different results. That's what happens if you seek a man in a pub/club or OLD - it's the same "type" of men who are looking for women in pubs/clubs or OLD. If you want a different outcome, you need to try looking in different places for different types of men.

This is a good point. It can be very difficult though. I work in a female dominated profession. In my current workplace, there are about 30 employees and only 2 of them are men - both happily married with young babies. That's pretty standard. Ther are very rarely outside people who come in - IT support or visiting professionals but they're only there for a short time and mixing/chatting isn't really possible. It's also not an environment where 'flirting' or getting to know someone who is only visiting would be a thing.

Hobbies - I've.met loads of men through hobbies but again they're all married. That doesn't eat there haven't been flirtations between people. But no one decent is going to get involved with a married man.

When I first became single many years ago, my experience was that the men I was meeting through any avenue - work or otherwise - were too old, too young, too married or too gay. And that hasn't really changed! I don't respond to men who try chatting me up in the pub because I see it as just that I'm the woman they're trying it on with currently. None of friends know any single men. I did ask a male friend a coupe of years ago if he had anyone he could introduce me to and his reply was, "Tbh, mate, they're all dickheads. That's why they're single." So not even being introduced to single friends is viable!🤷🏻‍♀️

@DillonPanthersTexas
That may be true that it’s increasing for men however with women still making up 85 percent of cosmetic surgery and the majority of eating disorders they have a long way to go
Be great if it stopped for both but let’s not pretend men have expectations to wear cosmetics look youthful and young forever

Anyways my point was about the fact that a woman’s preference for a tall man is not body fascism .

I hear all the time men complaining about women wanting tall men yet it seems they feel it’s totally acceptable that most me. Have plenty of pretences for women’s physical appearance … breast size, butt size age , height

Yet women have one damn physical preferences and men are screaming body facism

@BillMasen apologies, I literally wrote that too quickly. I definitely don't think divorced people are abnormal in any way. I do think we all need to be more open minded that people all have their baggage, especially later on

The difference in a preference for height in men is that they can do nothing about it so there's no pressure. If a man isn't very tall his dating pool is limited to women who don't mind that. He knows that, end of. The expectations on women are usually around things that women feel if they put enough effort in they can improve to get nearer to the ideal. And the ideal keeps changing and the bar keeps raising. That's pressure.

@5128gap

The difference in a preference for height in men is that they can do nothing about it so there's no pressure. If a man isn't very tall his dating pool is limited to women who don't mind that. He knows that, end of. The expectations on women are usually around things that women feel if they put enough effort in they can improve to get nearer to the ideal. And the ideal keeps changing and the bar keeps raising. That's pressure.

Yes the ideals around what men prefer in women range from things that can’t be changed ( without surgeries like breasts / butt size / height and extend to things like weight , body shape ie hourglass , hair and eye colour , age , body hair , amount of makeup worn

Some of which can be changed and some of which can and make women feel incredibly pressured .
The lists for women is way way beyond height and never ending .

Men might have preferences regarding women but it is much more varied- some like blondes, some like brunettes etc. It's much easier for women to conform to general expectations for a women's appearance- one can lose weight, wear makeup, it's easy enough to look 'average' and in the UK at least, it's easy enough to get dates if you look 'average' and your looks wouldn't be a significant barrier. You don't need to do all or any of the above but the option is there.

But it is impossible for men to grow an extra 10 cm as opposed to a woman losing weight and dying her hair and wearing makeup, all of which would make most women look 'average'.i don't know many men who have a set preference for a woman with huge boobs or nice arse, most men just want a nice enough girl who they can talk to and is at least average looking. I feel really sorry for short men, I am 152 cm and dont feel I suffered a lot on the dating front due to my height as a lot of men like petite girls. It would be different if I was a man.

@onlychildhamster

Men might have preferences regarding women but it is much more varied- some like blondes, some like brunettes etc. It's much easier for women to conform to general expectations for a women's appearance- one can lose weight, wear makeup, it's easy enough to look 'average' and in the UK at least, it's easy enough to get dates if you look 'average' and your looks wouldn't be a significant barrier. You don't need to do all or any of the above but the option is there.

But it is impossible for men to grow an extra 10 cm as opposed to a woman losing weight and dying her hair and wearing makeup, all of which would make most women look 'average'.i don't know many men who have a set preference for a woman with huge boobs or nice arse, most men just want a nice enough girl who they can talk to and is at least average looking. I feel really sorry for short men, I am 152 cm and dont feel I suffered a lot on the dating front due to my height as a lot of men like petite girls. It would be different if I was a man.

No that’s nonsense , can women have bigger or smaller breasts or busts or a different body shape

@Kittenlittlen how many men have requirements on the bra size? My DH doesn't even know my bra size. Men like breasts, end of story, but that doesn't mean they are fussed about size. my boobs are smaller than most women cos I am so petite. I never heard of a man rejecting a woman cos she wasn't Pamela Anderson, that is probably a man you should stay far away.

I think having a normal bmi is probably enough tbh..so many chubby women get lota of male attention too! Do men even know the different body shapes? My DH probably can't even tell you what a pear shape or hourglass shape is.

All you’ve managed to do is reiterate what others have said . That’s men’s preferences put women under far more pressures
Not only are some men concerned about height ( just like some women )
But they are also concerned about breast butt body shape
And then ON TOP of that they have all the other prefernces that are constantly being put on them

Why is it that women have managed to survive these constant pressures and just move on if a man isn’t interested because she doesn’t fit his type but men seem to whine about the fact some women want taller men
Men are the PRIME example of the double standard
They can sit around and assess women’s bodies non stop , award little hearts to those who meet their ‘ standards online , consume them in porn
The complain because some women prefer taller men - one damn physical thing and men lose the plot lol

[quote onlychildhamster]@Kittenlittlen how many men have requirements on the bra size? My DH doesn't even know my bra size. Men like breasts, end of story, but that doesn't mean they are fussed about size. my boobs are smaller than most women cos I am so petite. I never heard of a man rejecting a woman cos she wasn't Pamela Anderson, that is probably a man you should stay far away.

I think having a normal bmi is probably enough tbh..so many chubby women get lota of male attention too! Do men even know the different body shapes? My DH probably can't even tell you what a pear shape or hourglass shape is.[/quote]
Wow you obviously don’t realise that there are plenty of men with presences for large breast and also those with preference for small
Simply not true that all men like all breasts

Are you now denying men have physical preferences in women

I guess that’s why they have women’s bodies categories in porn into a thousand and one types of body part so men can choose their flavour huh , cause men just don’t care

@Shehasadiamondinthesky

The only decent men I know are gay. My gay friends never let me down. Why can't they all be like that?

Yes but you are in a pure friendship relationship with no lingering unspoken possibility of something more.

You have no real idea how your gay friends treat their sexual partners whatever they tell you or impression they give about that, you can never know for sure. Even the true dynamic of a LTR is only known to the people in it.

This is the point I made earlier ^ up thead, people (men and women) are different with different people. A man may be a brutal shit of a lothario to sexual partners but a perfect son to his mother and a good father to his daughter.

@Ihaveroyallyscrewedup problems arose because she was in a friendship dynamic with this man, who may be a perfectly decent friend in that dynamic, and that changed into a relationship dynamic, which may bring out all kinds of other behaviours that wouldnt cross into the friendship dynamic.

@Kittenlittlen its a lot easier to be an average looking lady than a short man in the dating market, that is what I am saying. I don't know many women who would date a man shorter than her, none of the men I know are dating or married to models. Most women with boyfriends are not particularly beautiful or attractive.

And ftr I agree that most won’t reject the chance of sex even when the woman doesn’t have the attributes they prefer