Where do they hide the normal men?

[Ihaveroyallyscrewedup]

Is there some island they all live on, some secret place only a few know of?
The most recent seemed like a safe bet, known each other for many years, well enough to know a fair amount of detail about each other’s lives. In that time he’s always seemed stable, good job, own house, two children he has three days a week, wise enough to have asked my advice before he has taken action because he has recognised he may be unreasonable and being a dick. For reasons which are irrelevant we have never dated but there has always been chemistry so we found ourselves in a place where we think ok let’s date and suddenly he’s turned in to this unreliable, non communicative man who treats a suggestion of lunch as if you had just proposed marriage, buying a house and having triplets all at the same time!
So time to throw this one back which is a shame as we have been friends a long time.

[quote onlychildhamster]@JustAnother0ldMan I am not sure I understood you correctly. I know many divorced women irl and there is usually nothing wrong with them- usually cheating/deadbeat husband. I am ready to bet that there are cheating/deadbeat wives out there, I just haven't encountered any significant number[/quote]
I think that is partly the issue with discussions like this. I know a couple of divorced women who are lovely but as we're not trying to date women we don't see what men see.

It's the same when men say how wonderful their divorced or single mates are but they can't comprehend the sort of men we have to deal with when dating.

@onlychildhamster
A PP was making a comment, almost in a derogatory fashion, that divorced men were in someway ‘faulty’, just because they are divorced, but I’m divorced and my wife cheated on me, so am I faulty ?

But from my POV, when I meet a divorced woman, I don’t know if there if there is anything ‘wrong with them’, or not or if they are lovely, or not, I don’t pre judge, to me it’s a divorced woman, and that’s all I know.

@NiceGerbil

The rich good looking men are all arseholes thing is... A bit odd.

Rich good looking men are people same as anyone else. Different personalities. Insecurities. The sort of people they like to go out with. What they want from s relationship

And obviously the female population are not all dead set on rich handsome etc.

Whoever said that if that's you experience across everyone you know that's a bit weird.

Most women are looking for someone they get on with, and you fancy each other, and they're not a twat.

If that's a big ask then there really is a problem and it's not women!

Rich, good looking, not an arsehole. Pick two.😁

@coronaway
Yes I think your spot on,

The rich good looking men are all arseholes thing is... A bit odd.
Rich good looking men are people same as anyone else.

I don't think this is right actually - but it depends what you mean by 'rich' I suppose which is all relative.

The really rich men I have met (talking multi-millionaire, hedge fund owner types) when they are out and about socially (with normal people) are surrounded by a weird kind of buzz. Not here talking about particularly good looking either.

Men are in the corner going "see that bloke over there, that's [Michael Jackson] of [Thriller Hedge Fund] and he's worth £££££" and treat them like gods.

They are usually with a very very attractive model type of woman - the sort of attractive that you rarely see on the street or in Waitrose! At the same time, they have other women buzzing around them like flies.

It stands to reason (rather like the super-famous) if you are that wealthy, you get surrounded by yes men and women and have lots of people smarming up to you for various reasons - including hot women angling for a relationships or sex.

I think that kind of treatment where you never get told no and are treated like some kind of deity would turn even the nicest people into arseholes. You'd have to be a saint to remain totally grounded.

@JustAnother0ldMan

So where ARE all these ‘good men ‘ congregating who don’t use degrading sites or speak crap in pubs and on dating sites

We are just normal people doing normal things in plain view, going to the shops, walking down the high street, going to the tip, we don’t congregate anywhere (maybe some of us do), but I’m so ordinary that you would walk past me without without even noticing it

Would second that.

For many men there isn't many options on dating sites etc. It's kind of wearing. Especially when you explain your situation, you have kids so many weekends a month etc.

I'm really unsure of this logic that all the good men are taken but.theres plenty of good women out there. A lot of the women I've dated post separation from long term partner have had underlying issues. Rarely are these things black and white.

Op I did this 3 years ago. Known him for 15 years and always had chemistry which we'd never acted on. He was a great friend but a dreadful boyfriend. Lasted 6 months and I'd had enough. He's no longer my friend

m really unsure of this logic that all the good men are taken but.theres plenty of good women out there. A lot of the women I've dated post separation from long term partner have had underlying issues. Rarely are these things black and white.

Maybe the problem is two fold - one that the pool of good men who are single is tiny and two that although the pool of good single women is much larger, neither meet because they don't overlap.

I know several by which I mean probably at least 30 off the top of my head but probably a lot more if I sat down and counted
single women never married no children who are lovely kind decent attractive everything you might want
but these women that I'm talking about are very successful professional women who rarely online date for various reasons only meet men at work who are mostly married or angling for affairs
they aren't going to meet mr normal in the queue in the supermarket because if a man tried to chat them up like that they'd be closed off to it.
They are two pools with no interlinking door.

I have quite a few male friends and as time goes on I am more and more disillusioned with them. One male friend I've known for years was seeing a woman for almost 2 years, to me he would complain about their differences constantly, 'out of the blue ' she broke up with him, he was bereft. I said...but you constantly complained about her, and she probably sensed that...and he bloody says 'yeah but I never told her all the things that annoyed me' wtf. So just....simmering resentment then? Why even be in that relationship? Why never bring up issues? 2 days after being 'heartbroken' he was on hinge, 5 days later he had a date and was all excited about that and apparently couldn't give a shit about the break up. Its just .... eye opening to see that level of emotional immaturity

@NoviceNewMN

>>>>m really unsure of this logic that all the good men are taken but.theres plenty of good women out there. A lot of the women I've dated post separation from long term partner have had underlying issues. Rarely are these things black and white.

Maybe the problem is two fold - one that the pool of good men who are single is tiny and two that although the pool of good single women is much larger, neither meet because they don't overlap.

I know several by which I mean probably at least 30 off the top of my head but probably a lot more if I sat down and counted
single women never married no children who are lovely kind decent attractive everything you might want
but these women that I'm talking about are very successful professional women who rarely online date for various reasons only meet men at work who are mostly married or angling for affairs
they aren't going to meet mr normal in the queue in the supermarket because if a man tried to chat them up like that they'd be closed off to it.
They are two pools with no interlinking door.

I met my 30 something successful professional career woman at work. I was divorced however.

I work with many professional women, and they're no different to non-professional women. Except that they typically leave marriage and kids a little later. Arguably they're a little bit fussier, but really not that much.

@NoviceNewMN

>>>>m really unsure of this logic that all the good men are taken but.theres plenty of good women out there. A lot of the women I've dated post separation from long term partner have had underlying issues. Rarely are these things black and white.

Maybe the problem is two fold - one that the pool of good men who are single is tiny and two that although the pool of good single women is much larger, neither meet because they don't overlap.

I know several by which I mean probably at least 30 off the top of my head but probably a lot more if I sat down and counted
single women never married no children who are lovely kind decent attractive everything you might want
but these women that I'm talking about are very successful professional women who rarely online date for various reasons only meet men at work who are mostly married or angling for affairs
they aren't going to meet mr normal in the queue in the supermarket because if a man tried to chat them up like that they'd be closed off to it.
They are two pools with no interlinking door.

I certainly agree with the 2nd point, there are groups or pools of men and women who just don’t cross paths and that certainly does cause as seeming dearth of people to meet,

But based on personal experience I would say the pool of ‘good single woman’ being somehow ‘much larger’ is just not true

@JustAnother0ldMan

So where ARE all these ‘good men ‘ congregating who don’t use degrading sites or speak crap in pubs and on dating sites

We are just normal people doing normal things in plain view, going to the shops, walking down the high street, going to the tip, we don’t congregate anywhere (maybe some of us do), but I’m so ordinary that you would walk past me without without even noticing it

Great to know

So what percentage of these men are not using these sex site ( with zero regard for the fact they have been in trouble for demeaning and illegal content against women ) , or only fans etc or have have other such behaviours
Statistically researcher say a bulk of men do use this stuff and the largest sites have been the ones often in trouble
Are you claiming there’s a whole lot of good men taking a stance against abuse against women .
Are you also claiming these men ( who are apparently good) are standing for men to change in terms of violence’s towards women or even pushing for childcare and things that really impact women’s lives
I just don’t see men caring less about these issues or really much of anything that doesn’t directly affect them

@Choccy01, what issues have you encountered when women?

@JustAnother0ldMan

Same as IME most men are somewhat intimidated by/ terrified of super confident very good looking women done up to the nines.

But surely this goes both ways, how would most women feel is the most handsome tall, well dressed man suddenly started hitting on them, ?, nervous, somewhat intimidated

Depends what you mean by well dressed.

If you mean rocking some kind of alternative vibe that really suits him then yay.

If you mean a suit then no thanks.

People also have very different ideas of good looking with a man. I find Prince incredibly sexy. I always have. He was 5'2 I think. Although he had awesome suits! Also Bowie though widely fancied he was actually a bit odd looking from an objective pov.

I've seen very few men in my life I thought were gobsmackingly beautiful. Just trying to think. Will say if think of someone famous. Omg well how about Tim curry in rocky horror? Crikey Mikey.

If I was somewhere and a tall handsome suited man started suddenly 'hitting on me' IE we'd but been giving each other the old eyeballing a bit first.

I would want him to piss off because he sounds arrogant, presumptuous because he's swung in because he thinks he's irresistible, there's been no previous glanced etc to communicate mutual interest. And I'm assuming his style is one than I find very unappealing.

I also think most women are used to being approached by over confident randoms and so are more here we go again than oooh Mr perfect has chosen to talk to me

I think there's a load of different lifestyles biases etc going on here.

'I don't know any of my male friends or family who just go out and chat, it's always based around an activity.'

What? Really? Bloody hell.

Go to any pub and you will find groups of men of many sizes from 2 up chatting.
DH is in an all male job and they are always nattering and gossiping.
At work men lunch ticket together and chunter on.

Men talk about lots of things. If they don't know each other well I suppose football hobbies work often attractive women. If they know each better then family, mutual friends, their partners and kids if they have them, politics, silly or interesting things on the internet, forthcoming or just seen films gigs etc. I mean you know. Like the normal people men are.

Your whole life you've never had a male frien or friends like that? I find that rather sad tbh as in you've missed out on really big thing that most other men enjoy.

Not trying to be mean I'm just genuinely. Taken aback. And your friends too. I don't understand TBH. You never just chat to other men. You don't find that a bit. I dunno. It's not how most men live.

‘Your whole life you've never had a male frien or friends like that? I find that rather sad tbh as in you've missed out on really big thing that most other men enjo’

What big thing ? Are you referring to women or men not having male friends when you say this ?

As a woman who’s had quite a few male friends over the year , in a wide variety of circumstances I’ve found invariably they end up having ulterior motives
It’s like you think they are your friends and even for years , then out of the blue they will make a pass or the comments will start
This is why I said earlier that I so seldom see men do anything that’s not giving them personally some benefit

@NiceGerbil

I think there's a load of different lifestyles biases etc going on here.

'I don't know any of my male friends or family who just go out and chat, it's always based around an activity.'

What? Really? Bloody hell.

Go to any pub and you will find groups of men of many sizes from 2 up chatting.
DH is in an all male job and they are always nattering and gossiping.
At work men lunch ticket together and chunter on.

Men talk about lots of things. If they don't know each other well I suppose football hobbies work often attractive women. If they know each better then family, mutual friends, their partners and kids if they have them, politics, silly or interesting things on the internet, forthcoming or just seen films gigs etc. I mean you know. Like the normal people men are.

Your whole life you've never had a male frien or friends like that? I find that rather sad tbh as in you've missed out on really big thing that most other men enjoy.

I genuinely don't think my experience is an outlier. I'm trying to think of a time when the men in my life have gone round to a friends to catch up like I do with my girl friends.

If they go out its normally to watch the game or play pool or they go round a friend's to play PlayStation etc

Kitten it was a man who says none of his male friends or family ever meet up with a male friend or friends for a chat.

He said they only meet when doing an activity and when talking stick to hobbies.

He believes this is quite normal for men. But it really really isn't.

I think there's a load of different lifestyles biases etc going on here.

This must be the case then as I don’t know where this pool of single women is, I don’t meet any of them IRL, on OLD by the time I’ve set location, age, education, filters etc my pool of matches is pretty small.
I just think I’m too old and not close enough to a large metropolitan area,

Gone round to their place?
As in one on one?
I don't do that tbh. I'm sure women do though.
I imagine if in evening it often involves drinking?
And when a man meets a friend 1-1 it generally involves the pub?

You've shifted what you've said quite a long way though! Never meeting for a chat is very different to never going to each others places.
I meet my friends in the pub or maybe go out for a meal. I doubt that's common.

So I'm not sure if your point now!

Is going to play playstation not going round to their place

I think you have a very different experience, circle of friends, family etc to me. And that's normal obv.. But it's a mistake to extrapolate to everyone. Although I did find your original post saying never chat extremely unusual.

I also am of the belief that people chat while playing pool/ waiting for a game/ the table. PlayStation ok.

I've always had plenty of friends of both sexes and in my late teens and 20s I was part of some v blokey groups. Pub pool kebab. Back to someone's for PlayStation or whatever they were called then and well some light chemical enjoyment and more beer. It was often me and blokes and they chatted plenty. I mean to each other. Until they got too stoned

I just don't buy that men don't chat to men even their good friends. And you've backtracked anyway.

I wonder why you said it in the first place though? What point were you trying to make?

Not close enough to a more populated area would make a huge difference yes!

You have a couple of old school locals near you that have a range of ages, sex etc?

That's where I'd start.

I know many pubs these days are sort of formal no mixing really. And/ very homogeneous customers.

It's easy to make friends round here and it's always better to start with that and see what happens from there.

The only decent men I know are gay. My gay friends never let me down. Why can't they all be like that?