Where do they hide the normal men?

[Ihaveroyallyscrewedup]

Is there some island they all live on, some secret place only a few know of?
The most recent seemed like a safe bet, known each other for many years, well enough to know a fair amount of detail about each other’s lives. In that time he’s always seemed stable, good job, own house, two children he has three days a week, wise enough to have asked my advice before he has taken action because he has recognised he may be unreasonable and being a dick. For reasons which are irrelevant we have never dated but there has always been chemistry so we found ourselves in a place where we think ok let’s date and suddenly he’s turned in to this unreliable, non communicative man who treats a suggestion of lunch as if you had just proposed marriage, buying a house and having triplets all at the same time!
So time to throw this one back which is a shame as we have been friends a long time.

I find that really interesting as well.

I wonder if it's because it's anon and there's a lot of repressed stuff coming out?

I mean the internet is no decent gauge of real life. And everyone has different experiences. In my adult life though I've rarely met a woman who was that way.

Also re internet the massive hostility towards women generally from men is really concerning. And when not as bad as that there's often still, when women say something that generally men don't like. Patronising, sneering. Etc.

And the prevalence of threatening sexual violence is well I mean. Grim.

So no I don't think the internet can be used as a measure tbh. Terrible behaviour is across society when it comes to this medium.

Also people who would never discuss things irl are in the same conversation about X topic so well disagreements are massive and expression unfettered.

Irl I wouldn't bring up things like religion politics brexit etc irl unless I knew the person well. And if I know them well it means that we're probably fairly similar in outlook. And also that if we disagree it'll be courteous or get dropped iyswim.

[quote coronaway]@NiceGerbil I wasn't necessarily referring to their build but more personality - assertive, confident, extrovert etc

I'm not saying having these traits equals bad partner but these traits do seem to be more common amongst men who have narcissistic or abusive tendencies. I think it's so fair to say these traits are more attractive to women than quiet, timid, meek men.

I'm of course speaking in generalities.[/quote]
I like men who are a bit quiet, shy even. And just nice kind gentle funny etc.

Is not the same as quiet timid and meek.

Quiet people are more than capable of being strong, capable, and assertive when they need to be. I mean same as the rest of the population.

What they don't have a need or desire to do is be loud, try to dominate, compete for no reason, and generally swing their dick around. As it were.

I also think that saying men who behave in the way that society says = narcissistic abusive is also a bit off. Men are told that stuff is how to be a man and what women find attractive (which you seem to believe).

When in fact most people like those they get on with, have similar values, often similar backgrounds, who they find easy to talk to and interesting/ funny etc.

And of course fancy each other.

Same as IME most men are somewhat intimidated by/ terrified of super confident very good looking women done up to the nines.

There are definitely still some “normal” men out there. Don’t discount divorcees! Lots of decent men come back on to the market in their 30s and 40s because they married/impregnated the wrong person in their 20s.

This is a bit of a depressing thread.

Seems to be the advice is all the good men are gone by age 30, so what if you're over that age and looking for a partner?

Also seems to be the advice that people who are coupled up are actually not happy....

So what's a woman to do with this mess?

No they aren't all gone at all!

Yes it's the age when loads of couples have babies and generally things stick together for a fair few years when children so yes.

Plenty of men in 30s are single and with no ex family.

All I can suggest is getting out in real life. The internet is a disaster for dating. I mean some get lucky but most women I know it's been a shitshow.

So what's a woman to do with this mess?

Don't seek dating advise from the MN relationship boards which seem at times to emulate one of those star trek parallel universe episodes.

@SweetBabyCheeses99

There are definitely still some “normal” men out there. Don’t discount divorcees! Lots of decent men come back on to the market in their 30s and 40s because they married/impregnated the wrong person in their 20s.

This make men sound like used cars, “ only 1 previous (impregnated) keeper, 40 years on the clock, not married, some service history “.

@FanGirlX

I've just been through a break up.

So there's another middle aged, obese, giant toddler with a drink problem on the market.

Any takers?

Lol

Same as IME most men are somewhat intimidated by/ terrified of super confident very good looking women done up to the nines.

But surely this goes both ways, how would most women feel is the most handsome tall, well dressed man suddenly started hitting on them, ?, nervous, somewhat intimidated

@JustAnother0ldMan I wouldn't feel intimidated, I know many handsome men hit on a lot of women! Not all obviously but there is a certain type of rich, handsome scion who hits on any decent looking woman.

It doesn't mean anything and most of the time, his girlfriend would not be one of the many average women he expresses an interest in, but I suppose for a woman hoping to bag a rich man, there is always hope.

But at the same time, i know of no women of who are 'polygamous' in this way.

I voted I wouldn’t date again on that thread. I like my DH (he’s not perfect but he’s a good man) I just don’t trust the majority of other men I meet and tbh mumsnet has REALLY put me off, relationship board is so depressing to read sometimes. At one point I was like “if anything happens to DH am moving to a womans commune”.

Tbh as I get older I’m increasingly believing that there are quite a lot of men out there who actively hate women.

OP sounds like your man has realised that, in this case, he can't turn a friendship into a relationship.

I had a similar experience many years ago when I was in a close knit friendship group of couples, found myself single, and he was the only single guy in it. We got on like a house on fire so it was easy and convenient to get together. Almost immediately, I realised I had made a mistake (but he hadn't and doted on me) and being very young and not really understanding much about relationships, I stayed with him for two to three years until my life moved on and I realised I could no longer continue.

Sounds like your guy couldn't communicate this to you . That makes him a pretty normal guy in my experience!!!

Although I would add that a sense of guilt and a desire not to hurt him, plus a certain degree of finding it convenient myself to have a bf at the time, kept me in the relationship I have described.

If it happened now, I would end it immediately and explain we made good friends but couldn't be lovers. I was not able to do that then. Well I think I would ...

@Toodlydoo

I voted I wouldn’t date again on that thread. I like my DH (he’s not perfect but he’s a good man) I just don’t trust the majority of other men I meet and tbh mumsnet has REALLY put me off, relationship board is so depressing to read sometimes. At one point I was like “if anything happens to DH am moving to a womans commune”.

Tbh as I get older I’m increasingly believing that there are quite a lot of men out there who actively hate women.

The relationship board isn't a true reflection though. People only post the negatives.

@coronaway
Can you point us in the direction of the websites where men show that they really care about women’s well being and respect them
I for one would love to see them as the internet seems full of the opposite

[quote Kittenlittlen]@coronaway
Can you point us in the direction of the websites where men show that they really care about women’s well being and respect them
I for one would love to see them as the internet seems full of the opposite[/quote]
They would just be doing that in their every day life. Who goes to the bother of posting about it anonymously on an internet forum?

see plenty of other catagories on men where women talk about dh and other sites but places men frequent on line , like pirn sites gaming sites , even male based hobby sites , women seem to be portrayed and often referred to in the most demeaning way .
Why is that ?
Sure the relationships forum may show the worst of men and opinions of men but go on any men’s type site and see how they think of women . That’s not just one place like mn relationships

I think that is more because when men get together it's normally around doing rather than just talking. On an internet forum this will more likely be discussions around a hobby or similar. I don't know any of my male friends or family who just go out and chat, it's always based around an activity.

I'm not disagreeing with you that there are lots of men out there who talk negatively about women but I still think they're a very small percentage of men in general. For men who are maladjusted the only place they can really talk about it is online so the problem seems far worse than it is in the real world.

@Kittenlittlen

see plenty of other catagories on men where women talk about dh and other sites but places men frequent on line , like pirn sites gaming sites , even male based hobby sites , women seem to be portrayed and often referred to in the most demeaning way . Why is that ? Sure the relationships forum may show the worst of men and opinions of men but go on any men’s type site and see how they think of women . That’s not just one place like mn relationships

Maybe it’s the age or hobby / pastime, thing, I’m on a couple of mostly male based hobby sites, probably a 70/30 split, most chats / messages are about the hobby or some event etc generally gender is irrelevant

[quote coronaway]@NiceGerbil I wasn't necessarily referring to their build but more personality - assertive, confident, extrovert etc

I'm not saying having these traits equals bad partner but these traits do seem to be more common amongst men who have narcissistic or abusive tendencies. I think it's so fair to say these traits are more attractive to women than quiet, timid, meek men.

I'm of course speaking in generalities.[/quote]
Isn't it back to the "bad boy" appeal? Where you know they're not good for you, but you can't help yourself due to the sex-appeal which often comes from confidence and assertiveness.

@coronaway

I think that is more because when men get together it's normally around doing rather than just talking. On an internet forum this will more likely be discussions around a hobby or similar. I don't know any of my male friends or family who just go out and chat, it's always based around an activity.

I'm not disagreeing with you that there are lots of men out there who talk negatively about women but I still think they're a very small percentage of men in general. For men who are maladjusted the only place they can really talk about it is online so the problem seems far worse than it is in the real world.

@nicegerbil So all the demeaning porn and the way women are described and depicted (also have you ever read the many many disgusting comments ) and with a big majority of men using such sites you think that the 70- 90 plus percentage of men using those sites equates to a minority? How bout the reddit sites where men refer to men as whites and sluts just soooo many

@JustAnother0ldMan
So I assume you don’t see the porn sites or ‘use ‘ them or see men who comment on places like reddit or gaming forums about women being worthless after 25 and calling them all manner of demeaning name
Sure there are some hobby sites where that won’t happen because the site is about the hobby and not men talking about women
That was my point really , that WHEN men get together and do talk about women , what results is usually pretty revolting

I think if women have this one place to voice our experiences we’d never come close to the horrible stuff all over the internet about women .

@Kittenlittlen,
Nope, don’t use gaming or porn site, I’m over 50 and those don’t appeal (to me), my hobby is similar to cycling (but not cycling), where gender is irrelevant

That was my point really , that WHEN men get together and do talk about women , what results is usually pretty revolting

Again not experienced this ( maybe I’m too middle class/ middle age), most of male friends are probably 40 + and would rather talk about their latest gadget purchase, or who won the last GP, mostly boring middle aged stuff, or just take the piss out of each other, that’s a pretty popular past time

my hobby is similar to cycling (but not cycling)

Unicycling???

[quote JustAnother0ldMan]@Kittenlittlen,
Nope, don’t use gaming or porn site, I’m over 50 and those don’t appeal (to me), my hobby is similar to cycling (but not cycling), where gender is irrelevant

That was my point really , that WHEN men get together and do talk about women , what results is usually pretty revolting

Again not experienced this ( maybe I’m too middle class/ middle age), most of male friends are probably 40 + and would rather talk about their latest gadget purchase, or who won the last GP, mostly boring middle aged stuff, or just take the piss out of each other, that’s a pretty popular past time[/quote]
I agree. I have a male-dominated hobby. It's a bit of a "nerd" type of thing. Most of the members of our local group are male, generally shy/introverted, and usually middle aged and older (though we do have a few in their teens and 20's). There is VERY little talk about women as most of the people there are obsessed with the hobby, though most are married have partners/girlfriends, etc. I'm one of only a handful of women and can honestly say I've never felt intimated, threatened, or ridiculed by the males there - quite the opposite in fact. Not all men are porn obsessed sex pests.

My husband is remarkably similar to me. He hates pubbing, clubbing, etc as he says it's always the same stereotypical "lads", usually extroverted and over confident, getting drunk, hitting on girls, being abusive, etc., but it's all in the name of "banter" apparently. If women go out looking for partners in pubs and clubs then it's no surprise that they get the same "type" of bloke. Likewise with dating apps, etc - it's not the "real world" so you're going to get a concentration of a particular type of person.