Men, what is WRONG with you??!

[Aliceclara]

My God! The thing that strikes me when I read a lot of these posts on Mumsnet is have men lost their way? Why are so many men incapable of behaving like decent, kind, caring, responsible human beings? What makes some of them entitled, arrogant, immature twats? Some of this must come down to upbringing. I have two grown sons and they would never behave this way! And if it's down to upbringing, is the responsibility for this down to inadequate parenting, inadequate mothers? I don't know the answer, but I think it's time the decent men made a stand against this. Too much misogyny, too much violence against women, not enough equality. What the hell is happening to society??!

And if women are not as you claim under much greater body pressure why are they making up the vast majority of plastic surgery patient , cosmetics consumers and eating disorders

[quote Kittenlittlen]@MatildaIThink
‘
‘Most men are decent, kind, caring, balanced human beings. Yes there is a minority who are truly awful and a larger minority who are bad, but have some redeeming features, but that is the same with women, as you are doing your very best to demonstrate on here.’

Yeah 12% of men thinking consent can be bought and 70% using porn predominately from site that have a reputation for exploiting demeaning women , underage material and uploads thag are without consent
70% of men are happy to support the degradation of women and girls and your sitting there trying to say they are good
That’s without even going into the violence

No[/quote]
Yeah 12% of men thinking consent can be bought
Technically it can, the women is consenting to sex.
70% using porn predominately from site that have a reputation for exploiting demeaning women , underage material and uploads thag are without consent
Seriously, most of the men watching porn watch a tiny amount, one or two clips a year. The amount that condone non-consensual uploads will be small, the number that condone underage porn will be vanishingly small.
70% of men are happy to support the degradation of women and girls and your sitting there trying to say they are good
No they are not, you are being deliberately irrational. 70% of men do not support the degradation of women and girls and you are insane to say or believe that.

Omg you are delusional . They absolutely are turning a blind eye to it if they are consuming and supporting sites that allow underage and illegal content

@Kittenlittlen

Ok so I’ve asked you several questions which you seem unwilling or unable to reply to 1 to provide stats about few men being violent 2 how you can possibly say body pressure is as bad with all the porn and sexist culture of women’s bodies . ( yo) do realise women make up the vast majority of anorexia patients ) 3 how many married men are using sex service 4 why you think a woman sacrificing herbody and her career very often and her energy and time to have a mans child is USING a man

And now after your last post I’ll ask this . You say why wouldn’t men have sympathy for some of the red pill stuff ‘
Wtaf
Ummm maybe because of all the reasons that have been written all over this post !
Yes men’s suicide rate is higher , sadly ken tend not to seek help !
Women’s depression rates are higher
Rates of eating disorders are higher in women
Women make up the majority of the worlds poor
Women own a tiny minority of the worlds wealth
Women make up the majority of sexual abuse victims

Yet here yoh are asking why wouldn’t men have sympathy for that rubbish . Wow just wow

I’ll ask again . How much education or knowledge do you have of women’s actual suffering poverty abuse against women ?

I'm assuming that this is aimed at me although I didn't say half of it.

There's no point having this discussion as what I'm talking about is behaviours in relationships that are common. We know this to be true and we know what broadly men and women get wrong.

If you want to say it's all on men by all means but if you won't listen to the other side then there's no point in discussing.

‘ Consent can be bought ‘

Well you’ve shown your hand now . You are absolutely completely uneducated and it’s shocks and disgusts me to here a women say this . I only ever thought I’d hear that from a man who consumed women for money

@Kittenlittlen

And if women are not as you claim under much greater body pressure why are they making up the vast majority of plastic surgery patient , cosmetics consumers and eating disorders

The amount of men's plastic surgery is rocketing, but the techniques are much less advanced for men than they are for women, things like implants for bigger pecs etc. however the surgery is a lot more complicated than for women. A six pack is impossible to get and keep via surgery, it might stay for a while with lipo, but it also does not work perfectly.

Cosmetics for men is the fastest growing cosmetics sector, although it is still viewed through a lens of being a feminine thing, so that keeps many men away. Things like fake tan though, the many many more men are getting them now compared to even five years ago.

Women represent the majority if Anorexia Nervosa cases, men are more likely to suffer from Bulimia Nervosa. The pressure on women is to be slim, the pressure on men is to be muscular, hence why men take steroids at a far far higher rate than women.

@Kittenlittlen

‘ Consent can be bought ‘

Well you’ve shown your hand now . You are absolutely completely uneducated and it’s shocks and disgusts me to here a women say this . I only ever thought I’d hear that from a man who consumed women for money

Are you saying that a woman agreeing to have sex for remuneration, is not actually agreeing to sex? If so then you are wrong.

‘Plastic Surgeons (ASPS) reveals from its 2014 plastic surgery statistics that women accounted for 92% of all cosmetic procedures, with the remaining 8% going to men. ‘

Yes it’s grown to 8-% wow with

92% being women

So again why is that if men are unders the same pressure . You do realise that there’s a whole lot more to plastic surgery than pecs . Where’s the 50 percent of men getting face lifts because of the pressure to look youthful?

‘ Are you saying that a woman agreeing to have sex for remuneration, is not actually agreeing to sex? If so then you are wrong.’

Oh shit . You don’t even understand why consent can’t be bought
For the love of god go take a gender issues 101 course !!!

I have to leave out conversation there . Maybe someone else wants to educate you

Seriously derailed thread - sigh.

My take away thought OP is that the answer to your initial question is writ large in some of the replies. Men behave badly because some so many of us not only allow them to but then bend over backwards to apologise for them as well.

@Kittenlittlen

‘Plastic Surgeons (ASPS) reveals from its 2014 plastic surgery statistics that women accounted for 92% of all cosmetic procedures, with the remaining 8% going to men. ‘

Yes it’s grown to 8-% wow with

92% being women

So again why is that if men are unders the same pressure . You do realise that there’s a whole lot more to plastic surgery than pecs . Where’s the 50 percent of men getting face lifts because of the pressure to look youthful?

The figure from 2018 is 79% women, 21% men, so in four years it has gone up more than two and a half times.

I suspect you will ignore that though as it does not fit your agenda.

The pressure on men is not for facelifts, the pressures are on different body parts on men and women, which is hardly surprising. Less than 1% of all hair transplants are for women for example. Men also get very few breast implants (although there will be some), penis enlargements are an entirely male area of surgery (just as labiaplasty is form women), hardly surprising that different pressures and different surgery are chosen by different sexes.

@Kittenlittlen

‘ Are you saying that a woman agreeing to have sex for remuneration, is not actually agreeing to sex? If so then you are wrong.’

Oh shit . You don’t even understand why consent can’t be bought
For the love of god go take a gender issues 101 course !!!

I have to leave out conversation there . Maybe someone else wants to educate you

So your position is, something says something you disagree with, you ask for evidence. They supply the evidence, you say the evidence does not count, is irrelevant, you then change the subject and/or attack them for something another poster said.

Or as you are doing here, having a tantrum and saying that a fact you do not agree with is not a fact, because it does not fit your deranged world view.

If a woman is willing to be paid to consent to sex then she is willing to be paid to consent to sex. That is legally consent, it is morally consent, you might not like it, I might not agree with prostitution in general, but I also do not think I should deny the women that choose that as a career that right, it should be there choice.

Now where it is not their choice (sex trafficking, coercion etc.) then that is very different, but in those cases the woman is not being paid for consent, the pimp/trafficker is, which is legally slavery.

Both parents are responsible for teaching their children about equality. However it's more disappointing when a woman continues the cycle of misogyny because we'd hope that women would be aware of and fight against instilling this bollocks into another generation. Sadly thats not the case. My mother treated me entirely different to my brother, he never had to lift a finger and could sleep around all he liked. I on the other hand was expected to do all the chores and l, of course remain a virgin until I was married. What utter shite.

I also think that the culture of instilling into little girls that they need to find a man and get married is half the issue, that leads to women choosing poor partners who are selfish and treat them like shite, when ideally they'd be taught to be their equal, earn their own money and not be reliant on another person (of whatever gender).

We've still a long way to go.

@MatildaIThink

‘The figure from 2018 is 79% women, 21% men, so in four years it has gone up more than two and a half times.

I suspect you will ignore that though as it does not fit your agenda.’

I’m not ignoring a damn thing . Yes so your saying that three quarters of plastics surgery’s are women whilst claiming men are under the SAME pressures .
Why are you ignoring THAT

[quote Kittenlittlen]@MatildaIThink

‘The figure from 2018 is 79% women, 21% men, so in four years it has gone up more than two and a half times.

I suspect you will ignore that though as it does not fit your agenda.’

I’m not ignoring a damn thing . Yes so your saying that three quarters of plastics surgery’s are women whilst claiming men are under the SAME pressures .
Why are you ignoring THAT[/quote]
The pressures are the same (to look what is deemed attractive in social media), the way to achieve that is different for men any women, the trends change. As I have already pointed out much of the pressure on men can not be achieved with surgery, which is why men take anabolic steroids rather than have surgery. If men could get a muscular, toned body from surgery I am sure many more would, but that is not an option, so they spend hours in a gym, taking anabolic steroids and protein supplements, damaging their hearts, liver and kidneys.

The same levels of pressure manifest differently, you seem to be deliberately refusing to acknowledge that because it does not fit your agenda.

I’m not educating you on consent ! I am disgusted you think you can shove aside the disparities between many sex workers and clients
Go do your own research if you care less

‘
The pressures are the same (to look what is deemed attractive in social media), the way to achieve that is different for men any women, the trends change. As I have already pointed out much of the pressure on men can not be achieved with surgery, which is why men take anabolic steroids rather than have surgery. If men could get a muscular, toned body from surgery I am sure many more would, but that is not an option, so they spend hours in a gym, taking anabolic steroids and protein supplements, damaging their hearts, liver and kidneys’
What an absurd response , so you believe that as many men are using anabolic steroids as women having surgeries buying cosmetics having day procedures like laser etc ?

People who know and are married to decent men aren't posting on AIBU about them.

70% of the posts here are fiction posted by bored fantasists, especially those that are like "My partner won't marry me or let me have a job and has me on an allowance of 40p per week and will immediately take my children away and leave me homeless if I don't cook a full roast dinner three times per day"

People in general are shit, and getting shitter, self-absorbed and proudly ignorant

Women (like you) are blamed and blame each other for bad male behaviour

Take your pick!

@Kittenlittlen

I’m not educating you on consent ! I am disgusted you think you can shove aside the disparities between many sex workers and clients Go do your own research if you care less

I've done my research, I understand consent, it is based on being willing to have sex with someone without threat of intimidation or violence, no where in the rules around consent is consent not allowed for personal gain.

If a woman is willing to be paid to consent to sex then she is willing to be paid to consent to sex. That is legally consent*.

I see you're buying into the 'happy hooker' ideology where women freely chose to have sex with men. The reality of course is that these almost exclusively are women without choice forces to turn tricks for a few quid to feed themselves or their children, feed addiction or pay a man who is prostituting them. Forced to risk rape, violence and STDs on a nightly basis. If it makes you feel better pretending it's a Diaries of a Call Girl lifestyle then good for you but don't try and argue here that you would happily choose if for you or any other woman in your life.

Lol Just beyond absurd . I’m going to go watch my grass grow
Have at it with your silly nonsense and ‘ you don’t want to hear it cause if your agenda

Plenty of women speaking the truth and it’s going to get louder

@Kittenlittlen

‘ The pressures are the same (to look what is deemed attractive in social media), the way to achieve that is different for men any women, the trends change. As I have already pointed out much of the pressure on men can not be achieved with surgery, which is why men take anabolic steroids rather than have surgery. If men could get a muscular, toned body from surgery I am sure many more would, but that is not an option, so they spend hours in a gym, taking anabolic steroids and protein supplements, damaging their hearts, liver and kidneys’ What an absurd response , so you believe that as many men are using anabolic steroids as women having surgeries buying cosmetics having day procedures like laser etc ?

No, not at the same rate, at a far higher rate, up to one million men a year are taking anabolic steroids.

Men are also getting laser hair removal on backs and chests.

Though I suspect you will now try and claim something totally different/irrelevant again, as you have done every time you are proven wrong.

www.theguardian.com/society/2018/jan/21/up-to-a-million-britons-use-steroids-for-looks-not-sport

70% of the posts here are fiction posted by bored fantasists

Yep.

@Kittenlittlen

Lol Just beyond absurd . I’m going to go watch my grass grow Have at it with your silly nonsense and ‘ you don’t want to hear it cause if your agenda

Plenty of women speaking the truth and it’s going to get louder

You have promised to go away once already, you didn't and came back to be proved wrong some more. You can either actually stay away this time, or you can come back and be proven wrong again, whichever you would prefer.