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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Is this early onset cocklodging or am I overthinking?

479 replies

dizzyupthegirl86 · 02/09/2021 10:58

I need to get my thoughts together and I know exactly what my best mate would say but a) he is male and b) doesn’t have the best relationship history.

So I’ve been single for about two years after a horrific break up that took me a while to get over. I’ve accomplished loads in that period and am happy with myself at the moment. I don’t need a relationship but I do miss having someone.
I started seeing someone a couple of months ago, initially I didn’t think there was much of a spark when we were texting but he was nice enough - but then after a few weeks something definitely turned a corner.
We’ve not spoken in great detail about finances but he works full time for his local council, I think from piecing bits together he earns maybe 20-23k? I earn 10k more. He was renting a room but his landlord sold the house so is now staying with his mom whilst saving up for a deposit. He’s 30, I’m 34, he lives around an hour away but typically comes to me as I live on my own.

The first time we went out, he suggested we split the bill. I didn’t have an issue with that. Second, third and fourth times, he came to mine, we ordered dinner and I paid. The second and third were cheap (maybe a tenner between us both times) but the third was about 40 quid and at that point I was a bit Hmm

After that, he suggested we go to a restaurant for dinner and the day before, he said he’d pay - which I thought was nice and a way of acknowledging he was aware I’d paid the last three times.
Next time, he came round, I paid - it was my ‘turn’, I thought. The time after that, we were ordering in and I told him it was his turn. He looked a bit surprised but said ok, though commented that at 45 quid, he hoped it was good. It was 45 coz he’d added a tenners worth of sides that HE wanted!

I then paid the last time. He knows I’ve got this week off work coz it’s my birthday and he suggested we go out for drinks and dinner yesterday which sounded lovely. He said he’d pick the restaurant, sent me a link and when I said how nice it looked, he said something like ‘yes but I’ve not looked at the prices yet’. He also said he’d come to mine beforehand (where we were going is roughly in the middle of where we both live). I told him that I usually get a taxi to the train station and then a train into town, but if there were two of us, a taxi straight into town would work out the same price - he said ‘that’s fine if we’re splitting it’…..

I thought it might be his way of saying he was on a budget (not something he’s ever bought up before) so I suggested we could do something cheaper if he wanted. He came over yesterday and I didn’t feel great so we decided to stay in. I suggested we could cook dinner with what I already had in, or go to the supermarket to get something - but he said he’d rather get a takeaway. He ordered it on the phone and asked if they took cards so I assumed he was paying - at this point, my (unspoken) logic was that it was his ‘turn’ and it was my birthday.

Food gets delivered and suddenly he can’t find his card. I give him mine to pay and he does so. If I’d been in that position, I’d have been mortified but would have offered to transfer it to the other person. No such offer.

So I’m at a bit of a loss really. I’m not typically that obsessed with money or who pays for what - I don’t mind at all taking it in turns and feel that it generally evens itself out. But I’m starting to get resentful about it now, and I’m noticing it more and more.

These comments about money really take the shine off things a bit! If I was in that position, I wouldn’t expect to be paid for but I’d definitely suggest cheaper things or offer to cook for someone.

A few weeks ago, he was over and he suggested staying the night - I was a bit thrown and said no. The next time he came over, he fell asleep but then basically wouldn’t get up, made out he was falling back to sleep. It was like he was expecting me to just cave? I told him three times he needed to get up and ended up turning the light on and leaving the room before he actually did it.
In a lot of ways, he’s great - he’s really nice, he’s engaging, he pays attention to what i say and is very generous with his attention. He’s close to his brother and the only day they both have off is Saturdays so he spends all day on Saturday with his brother, which does mean the things we can do are limited.

Sometimes I feel a bit Pearl-clutchy about things, so I don’t know whether I’m just overthinking these things. I would never dream of inviting myself to stay over, I’d wait to be invited.
I suppose what I’m asking is…. Is there another viewpoint I’m not seeing on the money side of things? It only became noticeable after the third time I ended up paying but it feels like he’s happy to let me pay. If he’d genuinely lost his card (and it did turn up once at my house after falling out of his pocket so it’s not outside the realms of possibility) and offered to transfer the cost of dinner, or even half, I wouldn’t feel quite so…. Used.

OP posts:
Bluntness100 · 02/09/2021 12:27

Yeah not sure how that’s not given you the ick to be honest.

He’s looking for you to be his new mummy, paying for him, letting him stay likely because his own parents are sick of him.

Quite frankly if you take out your rent/mortgage and bills you’re likely on similar disposable income. He’s just using you. He’s tight.

Willow4987 · 02/09/2021 12:29

I think you’ve got the ick and this is just cementing that.

Mummyoflittledragon · 02/09/2021 12:30

Omg he’s saved 14k and doesn’t even want to pay for food. Get rid.

MzHz · 02/09/2021 12:31

I think this isn’t signs of a cocklodger, it’s more worrying than that. The pretending to be asleep, the lost card/short arms/deep pockets AND the ordering a shit load of sides and not covering them yourself for me is signs of something more sinister

He’s trying to get his own way, ignoring your boundaries and pushing back on them, he’s also spending your money through deception and subterfuge

For me these are seeds of controlling behaviour and an inkling of financial abuse

I know that sounds dramatic, but this stuff always starts under the radar.

The signs are there that this isn’t the relationship you want, so cutting it off sooner rather than later would be the kindest and wisest course of action.

Your instincts are telling you this isn’t right. It’s not right. Do what you know you gotta do :)

JenniferAllisonPhillipaSue · 02/09/2021 12:32

I'm suspicious of the "set in stone" routine of seeing his brother every Sunday. Unless said brother has issues that mean he would be very anxious / upset if that routine were to change, then grown up brothers are normally quite accommodating. It's not like dropping a friend when you suddenly get a new partner: siblings are there for life.

Plumtree391 · 02/09/2021 12:32

I'm glad you're working it out in your mind, dizzy.

Have a good time on your birthday.

layladomino · 02/09/2021 12:33

Yeah there's something not quite right here. For me, the combination of HAS to see his brother every Saturday / seems to go out of his way to avoid paying for things / tried manipulating the situation so he could stay over when you'd clearly said no - would be enough to put me off him.

You would normally expect to go 50/50 when dating. I understand that if one is earning lots more, then they may swing it so they pay a bit more, but he's suggesting things that will cost, then ducking paying, which is plain cheeky.

HollowTalk · 02/09/2021 12:35

Surely he could access his bank account via his phone, so could have transferred the money anyway? If he intended to pay, that's what he would've done.

Calmdown14 · 02/09/2021 12:37

If you have to question it a few months in, it's not working.
You are not at a stage in your life to waste time on this kind of relationship.
I think the money thing is just the symptom of a difference in attitudes and incompatiblity.
You can pretend to ignore it but once seen, it can't be unseen so it seems you are flogging a dead horse.
He probably has good qualities but he isn't right for you.
That said, I wouldn't mention money when splitting. Just you don't feel the connection is quite there between you

dizzyupthegirl86 · 02/09/2021 12:37

His brother is going through a messy divorce apparently and is having a rough old time of it. Not that that’s my problem, but that’s the explanation I’ve had - apparently it started during lockdown, them spending more time together and they both enjoy it.

Pushing boundaries… I’ve not mentioned sex in this but there’s definitely some aspect of that too. To be clear - the sex is great. I’ve never felt unsafe and there’s not been any consent issues. But he has definitely tried to push boundaries in that respect (which is partly what I was referring to when I mentioned him explaining things away)

I do earn more, but it’s not LOADS more. And though I’m in a very lucky position, it’s not like I want to bankroll another persons lifestyle. I want to be wined and dined and treated sometimes. Staying in with a Friday night takeaway every week just isn’t the life I want, and the more and more I think about it… that’s what I’m lining myself up for, isn’t it?

OP posts:
chipsandgin · 02/09/2021 12:39

Eww, I’d have the ick by now OP. He’s tight, cheap and self-involved - a lack of generosity of spirit regardless of financial situation is a massive turn off in anyone. Meanness is very very unattractive trait and unlikely to change. I totally agree with pps - chuck this one back in the pond!

burnoutbabe · 02/09/2021 12:42

Seems you are not keen if he is travelling lots to see you and you don't even want him to stay over? I get it on dates 1-4 but surely adults stay over?

Just dump it not into him.

SeaToSki · 02/09/2021 12:42

I think the overarching theme of all of this is that you cant trust him to have an honest conversation with you about important topics. Either money, how much time he wants to spend with you (ie how important he sees the relationship) and sex. And by honest conversation I mean one where you are both comfortable and able to raise topics, talk about them properly and openly with all your cards on the table and then agree and stick to those agreements.

Not a problem in a casual dating scenarios, but definitely a problem with a relationship that you want to deepen into something longterm and meaningful.

So OP. Is this a fun flirty dating short term thing, or are you looking for the ‘one’?

Sparklfairy · 02/09/2021 12:43

Where are you based OP? I'm in the SE and the same age as you, and 30-odd year old men living at home 'to save' is rife. I'm not on a huge wage but manage to live alone and do okay, but somehow they can't manage even a flat share Hmm It seems 'saving' is the perfect excuse for these cocklodger. They can justify living at home and having their washing done 'because I'm saving', and also wriggle out of paying things 'because I'm saving'. It's awful. I'm dating atm and try and weed out anyone living at home. It not just money, it's independence and not being able to 'adult'.

I know you've only touched on the sex thing but it sounds like an extension of who he is in other areas - he wants what he wants and he'll push to get his own way?

workshy44 · 02/09/2021 12:46

Oh god op raise the bar. You sound lovely and a catch. Why are you trying to make it work with this guy when it clearly isn't. Tightness is one of the worst traits and I don't believe for a second he lost his card. Added to this the constant reminders that you have to pay or pay half and if you didn't mention it he would never pay. At this stage with no kids , early days it should be all fun and easy
Yuk, get rid !

Chickychickydodah · 02/09/2021 12:48

He’s a user. Bin him or he will sponge off you for ever 😩

happinessischocolate · 02/09/2021 12:49

£10k per year difference is only about £500 more per month after tax etc, and as he's living with his parents he probably has more left over than you do after you've paid all your bills OP

cookingisoverrated · 02/09/2021 12:49

Nope.

Why is it only humans ignore their guts?

I'd end it.

And the amount of takeaways at those prices is insane regardless of who's paying!

Calmdown14 · 02/09/2021 12:49

Does he by any chance 'not do' social media. Because the rigidness of the Saturday thing is odd and does make me wonder if the messy divorce is actually his and he is a Saturday (Disney) dad

LividLaVidaLoca · 02/09/2021 12:49

He’s playing you like a fiddle.

You can do so much better. When you find the one, you’ll know.

Gonnagetgoing · 02/09/2021 12:51

@layladomino

Yeah there's something not quite right here. For me, the combination of HAS to see his brother every Saturday / seems to go out of his way to avoid paying for things / tried manipulating the situation so he could stay over when you'd clearly said no - would be enough to put me off him.

You would normally expect to go 50/50 when dating. I understand that if one is earning lots more, then they may swing it so they pay a bit more, but he's suggesting things that will cost, then ducking paying, which is plain cheeky.

I had a similar relationship approx 2 years ago.

Lovely man. From the get go he was very firm from our first date (coffee with walks and drink and food and more drinks) that we equal paid which I thought was a bit mean. He also mentioned his younger brother had had a woman trap him into marriage and pregnancy very young but now brother was divorced with youngest kid being 9. He saw or tried to see his brother every weekend to “help out” as brother was single dad and divorced with 2 teenagers and ex wife had moved within UK but not near enough for visits and brother had full custody of DC.

I stupidly thought he was spending lots of money on a mortgage until I researched online what he’d paid for his posh London flat and just realised he’d got a cheap flat in an area which had increased quickly in value over the 12 years since he’d bought it.

Add to that that he could afford pre covid trips away abroad when his DB let his ex have kids (only times were in holidays) and he worked contracts and I soon realised that though he did pay for drinks and meals he preferred not to. I’d eg get a meal on a meal deal groupon site etc or half a pizza to share at a bar. After 6 months I realised with other stuff that life was too short to live with a meanie and dumped him!

I mean he did buy coffees etc but certainly wasn’t poor.

This guy is taking you for a ride with 14K in savings and you come second best so I’d ditch.

GeorgeMichaelBluth · 02/09/2021 12:53

Tight, manipulative and trying to push your boundaries in your sex life?
Bin him!

Sssloou · 02/09/2021 12:53

What’s his relationship history?

I don’t believe the brother stuff.

Why did he choose to date someone so far away if he is short on cash?

Join the dots.

But basically his slithering “explaining away” approach to discussion is just standard gaslighting and manipulation so that he can’t continue to push boundaries and exploit you.

But don’t keep looking for reasons and actions from him - just attend to your own gut feelings - they are “the truth” - and work from there.

If anything leaves you uncomfortable or confused or unsettled - it just means the situation is bad and they are covering it up - or you are denying your own embodied feelings.

Crikeyalmighty · 02/09/2021 12:54

Are you sure he doesn’t have ‘something else’ he does every Saturday ? (And not his brother) if blokes are that keen I’ve found they usually quickly drop things with family members until they have their feet well under the table

Pinkbonbon · 02/09/2021 12:56

Yuck. Tight, entitled and manipulative. Triple whammy.

Get rid.

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