Be honest. If a man expected you...

[AWiseWomanOnceSaidFuckThisShit]

to split the bill on a first date would it put you off?

Nope, not at all. I'd probably suggest it first though.

@stepupandbecounted

But to be blunt I wouldn't be up for a second date under those circumstances unless they were seriously attractive or "up for it"

How would you know if they were up for it or not? I would not be interested in sex until at least a few months of dating etc.

Which would be fine and perfectly reasonable......

As long as didn't expect me to pay for your meals and drinks for those months.

I've never been on a first date where the man hasn't paid the bill, I've offered obviously but they've generally paid it before I even saw it.....for context I was married for 16 years so dated in my 20's and again now in my 40's dated for 18 months....and my boyfriend does tend to pay for most socialising we do. I do pay for things like takeaways etc but I don't have much money and we have talked about it and he is happy to pay for things I can't afford

@stepupandbecounted

Why does it have to be like that? It’s never been like that for me

and that is sad, because having excitement, fun and feeling special is an important part of feeling valued in a relationship. Dh flew me to NY as a surprise, I bought him a painting he had admired for years.

I can't really imagine spending my life with anyone that begrudged paying for dinner. I actually dropped a few decent enough men because they were so miserly. It does not bode well for the future.

You have misunderstood what I meant. I was talking about somebody sitting miserly totting everything up to split the bill against my wishes. I’ve always assumed I’d be paying on dates. I wasn’t talking about established relationships.

He’s probably more likely to support your career and take shared parental leave

No, he is more likely to let you get on with a full time job AND all of the house and life admin. The statistics tell us that for sure, they do not pain a picture of 50-50 at all, in reality. At least a generous man is likely to agree to hiring the best nanny/cleaning help etc so you are not on your knees every night.

@stepupandbecounted

He’s probably more likely to support your career and take shared parental leave

No, he is more likely to let you get on with a full time job AND all of the house and life admin. The statistics tell us that for sure, they do not pain a picture of 50-50 at all, in reality. At least a generous man is likely to agree to hiring the best nanny/cleaning help etc so you are not on your knees every night.

You really think that? Bless.

Or that he is the type of man who will always expect you to pay half of everything...good luck with that on maternity leave.

I think it’s ok to leave that for a second date. 😂

The first date isn’t the only chance you’ll get to audition this guy, despite some views on the thread!

There are such weird attitudes at play here. ‘I want to be treated traditionally while we’re dating, with all the romance and manly gentlemanly men! But I want total equality after that.’

I’ve actually got more respect for those who have so-called ‘traditional values’ and have followed through in their subsequent lives. At least there’s logical consistency.

@PurpleDaisies

Or that he is the type of man who will always expect you to pay half of everything...good luck with that on maternity leave

He’s probably more likely to support your career and take shared parental leave.

You're very naive if you think men who split the bill on first dates are doing so because they care passionately about women's equality!

I would be put off by someone 'insisting' not to split. I have never not split the bill on a date. It's weird.

No, he is more likely to let you get on with a full time job AND all of the house and life admin. The statistics tell us that for sure, they do not pain a picture of 50-50 at all, in reality.

Sorry, can you share the stats that correlate first date payment behaviours with the split of domestic labour in established relationships? I’m intrigued.

@stepupandbecounted

This thread is a total eye opener on why some women end up in disastrously unequal relationships unable to figure out how they ended up in a cycle of drudgery

I was thinking the exact opposite. The early dates set the tone for a relationship. If he can not even manage to treat you to dinner, much less weekends away etc and show some keen interest and romance, then what the hell happens in twenty years, and he is slumped in front of the TV and puts zero effort into the relationship, hasn't bought you flowers in a decade and does not appreciate anything you do.

I insist on being treated well. That starts at the beginning.

This.

I've always wondered just how many of the "cool crowd" who insist on letting men off the hook on dates ultimately end up in financially abusive relationships.

Well I either fall into the seriously attractive category according to your deductions or I am extremely lucky with the men I have dated.

I have always offered to pay, and very rarely has any man said to me yes I will just work out your share! It would probably make me giggle, and I would definitely think this chap is not a keeper unless his maths skills were so impressive he was able to work it out immediately, and we are not sat there awkwardly whilst he works it all out in silence. In that case I would pay and leave and never see him again. The following date I would make it clear it was my turn.

As long as didn't expect me to pay for your meals and drinks for those months

I find this so funny, so you would be funding food consumption for a few months whilst said date deliberated whether you were good enough?! Has anyone ever actually expected that? 2boysdad
Did they add on a few utility bills for good measure? Because that sounds dangerously close to prostitution to me if I am honest.

It totally depends on circumstances ....

An online 1st meeting - I would not generally feel comfortable having a meal paid for, I would not want there to be 'expectations' as others have said

1 drink or a coffee - I would find that a bit of a turnoff if someone expected to split the bill, but equally sometimes I have been the one who has offered to pay (eg if the other person has had a long journey etc)

It also depends on people's finances: for a man in 40s/50s a well paid job, a casual dinner of £30-40 is not a big deal so I would not particularly read much into being 'treated' (and I might have spent more than that on something to wear/nails etc)

Dating is about ascertaining compatibility: if this is important to you that's your choice

If only the men who think splitting the bill is a noble act cared so much about splitting caring and domestic duties ..

I've always wondered just how many of the "cool crowd" who insist on letting men off the hook on dates ultimately end up in financially abusive relationships.

Can you explain the logic here, please? How does being financially independent and equal at the start of a relationship and eschewing ‘traditional’ financial setups in relationships result in financially abusive/controlling ‘traditional’ setups later in that relationship?

Top tip for avoiding financial abuse: never be financially dependent.

**The following date, if the first one went well, I would make it clear it was my turn.

Top tip for avoiding financial abuse: never be financially dependent

That doesn't stop someone taking advantage of you and your income. Financial abuse works both well. There are plenty of threads on here where the woman is the main breadwinner with a useless oaf of a man at home doing nothing. That is still financial abuse and being used for money is no fun either. At least if you start with a man that can provide, is generous and giving he is likely to make a very good life partner regardless of whether you earn more than him or not.

I would definitely think this chap is not a keeper unless his maths skills were so impressive he was able to work it out immediately, and we are not sat there awkwardly whilst he works it all out in silence.

To be fair to you, I would think any bloke who couldn’t divide by two easily in his head wasn’t a keeper.

Yes.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=pk3ds-VFKBs

It depends where you go to eat, and what kinds of wines you are ordering. Some men are incredibly pedantic, splitting the bill with who ate/drank what. My friend had a particularly horrendous date where he itemised in pen, that he retrieved from his pocket - everything she consumed, and then spent some time checking and double checking the total!!! If that is not going to kill any sexy chemistry I don't know what will. The equivalent of turning on the lights and checking if your mother has called. If this is your idea of romance and fun then fine perfect, but she could not leave fast enough is the short story.

He then asked her for a second date...

I would expect to split the bill. I'd probably suggest it; it'd just be a question of who said it first!

@NannyAndJohn

I've been with DH for 30 years so it's a good while since I've been on a date, but if they didn't offer to pay then I never saw them again.

No one likes a cheapskate.

Who's the cheapskate in this scenario.

The one expecting to split the bill or the one expecting their meal for free?

@stepupandbecounted

Top tip for avoiding financial abuse: never be financially dependent

That doesn't stop someone taking advantage of you and your income. Financial abuse works both well. There are plenty of threads on here where the woman is the main breadwinner with a useless oaf of a man at home doing nothing. That is still financial abuse and being used for money is no fun either. At least if you start with a man that can provide, is generous and giving he is likely to make a very good life partner regardless of whether you earn more than him or not.

And plenty of relationships where neither is true. I’m not sure what you’ve described meets the definition of financial abuse (rather than a woman who is allowing herself to be taken advantage of and treated like a doormat and possibly abused in other ways).

But that’s where it comes down to having clear expectations of other and sticking to those boundaries, right? And my view is that consistency from the start is a useful part of that, rather than ‘I want to be swept away by romance, but after than I want it to be totally modern’.

But I’ve always been someone with healthy boundaries who will cut and run before I find myself saying ‘well, at least he’s willing to pay for me to have my hair done.’

Women want to be treated 'traditionally' with all these outdated expectations. But are the first to spout feminism and equality.

Make it make sense.

You want equality until it comes to not paying for a meal? Christ sake.

No of course it wouldn't put me off. I've paid for dates before and happy to do so! I make my own money and I don't need anybody paying for me.

The man I split the first date meal with us now my husband and dad to our DD.