Be honest. If a man expected you...

[AWiseWomanOnceSaidFuckThisShit]

to split the bill on a first date would it put you off?

I offered to split the bill on the 2nd half of my first date! He refused. Always been good with paying for teas and coffees. The first half of my first date with him was afternoon tea with his friends (lovely couple) so I was on a date with 3 people I'd never met before 🤣. The men paid for the afternoon tea. Then on the way back in the car with this other couple he asked if I'd like to go to dinner with him...I said yes. Getting married next year 😃😃😃(fist date was 8 hours long in total!!)

@Yeaemmm

Definitely would be put off. Most of my friends would say the same and we’re only in our early 20s so not sure how ‘outdated’ a view it really is

What is modern about requiring a man to pay for your dinner because he is a man?

@PurpleDaisies not necessarily modern but not necessarily outdated either. Doesn’t have to be either/or

Men who are tight with money also tend to be tight with their emotional intimacy and are selfish in bed. And many of them also turn out to be prolific gamers. Before people ask for ‘evidence’ no. This is an Internet forum & it’s called an opinion.

In any case, if a man thinks my opinion makes mr a grasping hypocrite that’s fine because I don’t want to date him anyway 🤷🏻‍♀️

[quote Yeaemmm]@PurpleDaisies not necessarily modern but not necessarily outdated either. Doesn’t have to be either/or[/quote]
Ok. As twenty somethings, on what basis have you decided being in possession of a penis means you need to pay for dinner?

@VulvaTeeth it's not like I won't be bringing plenty to the relationship. Their cards are on the table first date, look upon it as an interview if you will. They've chosen not to take the lead and not to impress you, it simply won't improve. I'm playing the dance of making him feel important and special as he is doing the same for me, is just good manners. Everyone likes to feel loved and cherished. If some men find it insulting/embarrassing a woman paying it shows they have no problem with paying.

@FTEngineerM
I'd just go out with my mates if I wanted to be treated equal. If Im with a man I want to feel masculine and feminine energy. I feel I can relax into my feminine energy and it's not stressful choosing restaurants and dealing with stingy men that can't take the lead, really be honest that's no fun!

WTF is “feminine energy”? It sounds like something that would turn up in a tampax advert.

@PurpleDaisies

WTF is “feminine energy”? It sounds like something that would turn up in a tampax advert.

It’s looking demurely put through your false eyelashes, then doing the Legally Blonde ‘bend and snap’.

Out of interest, posters holding the position that a man should pay: do you have many male friends, or at least male colleagues you get on with?

Only, the women I know who think like this (and I'll admit, it's quite a small sample) don't tend to have close platonic relationships with men outside of their family.

It’s looking demurely put through your false eyelashes, then doing the Legally Blonde ‘bend and snap’.

. Of course! I hadn’t thought of that.

@VulvaTeeth

Out of interest, posters holding the position that a man should pay: do you have many male friends, or at least male colleagues you get on with?

Only, the women I know who think like this (and I'll admit, it's quite a small sample) don't tend to have close platonic relationships with men outside of their family.

Well that's correct for me too. I don't have any platonic male friends.

[quote dontwantausername]@VulvaTeeth it's not like I won't be bringing plenty to the relationship. Their cards are on the table first date, look upon it as an interview if you will. They've chosen not to take the lead and not to impress you, it simply won't improve. I'm playing the dance of making him feel important and special as he is doing the same for me, is just good manners. Everyone likes to feel loved and cherished. If some men find it insulting/embarrassing a woman paying it shows they have no problem with paying.

@FTEngineerM
I'd just go out with my mates if I wanted to be treated equal. If Im with a man I want to feel masculine and feminine energy. I feel I can relax into my feminine energy and it's not stressful choosing restaurants and dealing with stingy men that can't take the lead, really be honest that's no fun! [/quote]
I agree with all of this.

I'd wonder whether that would make a difference in what you prioritise in a relationship. I imagine that if all the close relationships with men outside your family have been romantic and/or sexual ones, then you're more likely to attribute different roles to men and women.

I'm playing the dance of making him feel important and special by what? Being pretty and meeting him date you?? as he is doing the same for me but that only translates into money. So you spend money and I'll be pretty and willing??

I'd just go out with my mates if I wanted to be treated equal. If Im with a man I want to feel masculine and feminine energy. I feel I can relax into my feminine energy say what now?

@SleepingStandingUp You're failing to grasp many men like to go through dating rituals and yes a man should say "you look lovely". It's manners! Just as I should take an interest, be good at conversion and smile. The paying is part of the ritual it makes him feel masculine and the woman feel treasured.

If we're talking about the boys that want to go halvers, you must be prepared this is not a man who will take the lead, he will not search out sweet gifts for you, I suppose he just sees you as a friend who he might have sex with. Whereas when men go through dating rituals of taking you out and declaring they want to be your boyfriend and so on, it makes women feel secure, they know their intentions, they know they're keen. It's not the money or paying it's just an element of a dating ritual which is important. So look at it like this, this is as good as it gets. Are you happy with this dynamic? Personally it's not for me, I feel miserable with that dynamic not for the sake of few quid on a coffee. His actions therefore declare "you're not that special but I'll stick it out if you are prepared to tolerate this dynamic".

It's really that simple.

This thread is so depressing.

Folks falling over themselves to justify why the man should pay for no other reason than he has a penis.

And have the cheek to call men tight!

No as I would offer anyway. I don't think it's fair to assume an individual will pay if asked out on a date, I see it as a shared activity. If you weren't interested if you had to pay, then to me it's like you didn't have an interest in getting to know them beyond their wallet.

Obviously this is based on the idea the restaurant is picked together, as if it was a widely expensive one that was out of budget but they purposefully chose then it would be a bit different. Then again, I would want to know where I was going before a date anyway so probably a moot point.

@AhNowTed

This thread is so depressing.

Folks falling over themselves to justify why the man should pay for no other reason than he has a penis.

And have the cheek to call men tight!

Indeed.

And it underlines why women will never, ever achieve equality with men. Because too many of us simply don’t want equality.

Yeah some of us are just happy to go for a coffee and see if there's a connection. If so, you get date no 2. A spark will get you date no 3. Worked well enough to get to be married within 18 months and to now have 3 kids. He works. I'm a SAHP. He does as much parenting when he's at home as i do. Not bad for a guy who let me buy my own coffee

But it’s not because he’s a man! It’s because he issued an invitation.
If he hasn’t then when will he and why not?
I also hate it when women organise an expensive birthday meal out for themselves and expect everyone else to pay. It’s the exact same bad manners.

I’m a bit late to join this heated discussion 🤪 but:

1. I’d expect him to pay if

• he invited me out and I have an intention of seeing him again

2) I would prefer to pay 50/50 if

• he invited me out but I have no intention of going on 2nd date. However, if he insisted because his values tell him to do so, I’d be ok with that.

3) I would go 50/50 if there was no clear lead in issuing an invitation. 4) I’d never pay for a man on a first date because I’m never the one leading with an invitation.

Whoever is paying/not paying - worrying about men’s expectations is ridiculous, I don’t owe anything to anyone just because I had dinner with them!

@Malena77
Quite right!

Yes it would.

@Unfashionable Really? You think I'm not helping equality? Tell me are you looking for someone to go halvers with? Who proposes? Who carries the child? Who does the most child rearing! Who' physically stronger? Who's most of risk of violence and death?

It's a romantic relationship there is NO equality anyway, so filter well your life, wealth and happiness is at risk if you don't.

@dontwantausername a man should only say he thinks you look lovely if he thinks it, genuinely. Is that the only way you are able to feel treasured? If there is someone buying you something?

What you say about the ‘man who goes halfers’ isn’t true, for any man I know. It is possible to have sweet thoughtful gifts and still pay for your own life (meals, days out and bills etc).

Men who have all these dating rituals to feel manly, are actually probably quite insecure. A man can feel like a man without a woman batting her eyelids at him. This sort of thing breeds infidelity, what happens when your darling wife no longer bats her pretty eyelids at you because she’s tired and the children have taken every last bit of energy, oh yes of course, you get it elsewhere.

A man who is comfortable in himself and his ‘masculine energy’ as you put it, doesn’t need to flash wealth to get a partner. I find it deeply unattractive. If you have to spend money on someone for their time…

Who proposes? man
Who carries the child? woman, biology
Who does the most child rearing! 50/50
Who' physically stronger? man
Who's most of risk of violence and death? historically women, not unrelated to those rituals you speak of