Be honest. If a man expected you...

[AWiseWomanOnceSaidFuckThisShit]

to split the bill on a first date would it put you off?

[quote Journeyofthedragons]@PatriciaBateman

You seem to be talking about the "you wanted equality, now you got it" MRA type and if this system (hypothetically) works for you then that's good, personally I'm not so sure.[/quote]
I think you are describing my husband!

To be honest, I just want to revise the system I had before which catastrophically didn't work for me (the "we are equal" starry eyes of my youth).

I can, with great sadness, confirm I acknowledge there are no guarantees.

it cos you want a free dinner (or in reality want someone to take care of you and buy you things when it suits you

If you think women who like a man to pay do so because they want a free dinner, then you are showing a lack of emotional intelligence...it's much more complex than a woman thinking, yippee, a free pizza and a glass of wine!

Wrapitupgood wow, what a catch you are sunshine

Who pays of you're gay / lesbian?

Yes.

No, I'd prefer to split it

verilymag.com/.amp/2017/07/men-should-pay-on-a-date

And this jamesmsama.com/2016/04/23/heres-why-men-should-still-pay-for-dates/
Both written by men

@PatriciaBateman - you want a man who is “generous” because you are “generous to a fault”. So you want him to pay for you? On a first date? But although you’re just so generous you’re not going to pay for him or even your share? Makes a lot of sense! Not.

You don’t get to use rape to justify being a freeloader. How awful.

If you want equality stop perpetuating gender roles than keep women down. I see no reason why I would expect or even let a male date pay any more than I would let a male friend pay. I can pay for myself at a meal and in life. I don’t need a man to take care of me. I have a job, I expect to be treated as an equal in life (while I acknowledge that doesn’t always happen, I don’t support that or try to make it worse) and I see no reason why I would expect someone to pay for me on the very first time they met me because they are of the male sex and I am of the female.

Or you could try reading what I actually said...
Make the choices you like. I stand by mine.

@Comedycook - no it’s that they want a man who will pay for them and take on a disproportionate financial burden. That’s what they want. That’s why they won’t otherwise go on a second date. They don’t want a nice man who will do an equal share of childcare etc. They don’t want equality. They want a patriarchal Prince Charming fantasy. Where they get things just for being female. Which isn’t equality and doesn’t work out so well for the vast majority of women. You want to get ahead by just marrying well, fine but what happens when it doesn’t work out. That puts women in a vulnerable position- it’s not equality.

Tell you what why don't we all just go to the pub for a first date and do rounds.

Then you're not stuck for a whole dinner if you don't hit it off and this whole issue goes away!

Judging from previous experience, yes it would put me off.

@PatriciaBateman - I did and I commented on it. I absolutely will make the choices I like. I certainly wouldn’t expect or even allow someone to pay for me on a first date like I’m a child. I’m not. I’m an adult. With full autonomy.

Would you expect a new friend to pay for you (male or female)? If not, why do you expect someone you enter into a romantic relationship with to pay? Do you generally expect others to pay for you? Or just men you are romantically involved with?

@Wrapitupgood
Whilst I agree that women should pay there own way, as I always did with DH. You sound very misogynistic, you'd be a right catch.

@PatriciaBateman

It sounds like you have had some truly horrible experiences with a misogynistic man. Apart from your belief that society is far from equal, I don't agree with your position though. We do use lots of filters of character on dates. If a man feels obliged to pay on a first date, this does not usually say that he recognises sex-based inequality and feels that paying for your dinner is a way to try and move to a more equal position. It is much more likely to mean that he holds the sort of traditional values which may lead him to leave all the childcare to you and expect you to work part-time to look after the kids but not be prepared to share his money. Change does not happen at the till on a first date. Even if it did, it would not be by the continuation of traditional sex-based societal expectations.

[quote CayrolBaaaskin]@PatriciaBateman - I did and I commented on it. I absolutely will make the choices I like. I certainly wouldn’t expect or even allow someone to pay for me on a first date like I’m a child. I’m not. I’m an adult. With full autonomy.

Would you expect a new friend to pay for you (male or female)? If not, why do you expect someone you enter into a romantic relationship with to pay? Do you generally expect others to pay for you? Or just men you are romantically involved with?[/quote]
CayrolBaaaskin
If I believed you were asking in good faith, to understand, I would address your questions.

You seem to already be convinced you are right - so crack on with doing you! Good for you.

If you actually wanted to understand another person's perspective - I have actually already explained 'why', in depth. I stand by it.

Also it makes no sense to me to claim that actually encouraging and promoting sexist attitudes (men should pay for women) somehow helps stop other sexual inequalities (eg sexual violence being disproportionately directed towards women). It doesn’t at all. Quite the opposite. And yes, some men who want to split are tight. But it’s the fair abs normal thing to do.

[quote Feelingmardy]@PatriciaBateman

It sounds like you have had some truly horrible experiences with a misogynistic man. Apart from your belief that society is far from equal, I don't agree with your position though. We do use lots of filters of character on dates. If a man feels obliged to pay on a first date, this does not usually say that he recognises sex-based inequality and feels that paying for your dinner is a way to try and move to a more equal position. It is much more likely to mean that he holds the sort of traditional values which may lead him to leave all the childcare to you and expect you to work part-time to look after the kids but not be prepared to share his money. Change does not happen at the till on a first date. Even if it did, it would not be by the continuation of traditional sex-based societal expectations.[/quote]
Thank you for your kind opening.

I honestly don't expect everyone to agree with my approach. It's the revision of an approach which definitely didn't work - at least for me.

I am not a 'traditional' woman and would seek to filter out a 'traditional' man for the same reasons you explain. He would get past the 'pay' filter but not much further.

My main and over-riding priority would be to filter out the 'we are equal' men - and no doubt I would accomplish that! (unless they were lying of course)

I acknowledge no guarantees.

@AWiseWomanOnceSaidFuckThisShit

to split the bill on a first date would it put you off?

It would definitely put me off.

On a first date I'd prefer it. No obligations. No expectations. Just an exploratory dinner.

Isn’t it ok though that some women do not want the process of dating someone new to be so lacking in traditional chivalry? I mean I look back on when Dh and I first met as one of the most exciting times of my life and I know he feels the same because he still talks about it and even recreates dates we had five years on. He loved surprising me with gifts, trips away and nice restaurants he’d researched. He wanted to impress and I was happy to be impressed. Both parties happy. Of course these things would have been useless without an actual spark and good conversation but they were still nice. It’s not necessarily about money but I knew he was really serious because of the time and effort he consistently put into planning dates and surprises he thought I’d enjoy. Knowing he was serious meant I felt more at ease and was probably more open and receptive to him than I would have been if he hadn’t been as generous.

@PatriciaBateman - I have read your post and don’t agree with it. I think it’s pretty wrong to bring up rape as some sort of justification to expect someone to pay for you on a first date. I think you are perpetuating inequality and sexism and I don’t agree with that. I’m a feminist.

Ok we disagree. Fine by me.

Yes.

Thankfully I got over it. We've now been together over 10 years and he's a great dad