Be honest. If a man expected you...

[AWiseWomanOnceSaidFuckThisShit]

to split the bill on a first date would it put you off?

@Itsbeen84yearss

Being on dating apps, socialising, self care making sure you have attractive pictures, profile, responding nicely to messages and making time for dates is pro active enough in dating. Too many men on OLD will read asking them out and pursuing them as desperation. They’ll respond of course because it’s easy but usually only long enough for a quick leg over. OLD is just a numbers game so by pursuing you waste time and energy on men that are not really into you. Choosing from the men that approach you, travel to you, pay for dates means you are at least cutting out on the huge portion of men that will date you even if they don’t find you attractive as long as you’re making it easy.

Apart from on bumble where the women have to make the first move

Don’t use Bumble. Plenty of other apps and websites

Just because you talk to someone first on a site though, doesn't mean you'll be the one asking them on a date though. Men on bumble could still be the ones to do the asking.

What’s wrong with bumble? Most women seem to say it’s the best one these days?

@Feelingmardy

All these women saying they want an equal partnership hence why they pay...so naive. I can assure you the men aren't thinking the same...they're generally thinking, excellent I saved £27.50 on that meal. Oh and when you go off on maternity leave, you won't be able to keep up your equal partnership as your income will dip significantly. He'll have to contribute more or you'll be penny pinching, rinsing your savings or getting into debt.

It is not naive at all. My OH is thinking exactly the same. He shared all his money when I was on mat leave. He is very generous with both his time, care and money. It is possible to find a man who is not the tyrant you are suggesting. My friend's OP's are all the same. Perhaps you have just been unlucky or made bad choices.

Not really because I wouldn't go for a second date with a man who split the bill with me

No, I'd be insisting we split if he offered to pay

@PumpkinKlNG

What’s wrong with bumble? Most women seem to say it’s the best one these days?

Yeah I found it to be the best one.

@Pinkbonbon is right though you don't have to do the asking on the date. But you do have to message first

@PumpkinKlNG

What’s wrong with bumble? Most women seem to say it’s the best one these days?

They probably think it’s good because they don’t get all the spam messages but I think you’re setting yourself up to waste time dating men that aren’t really into you. I think women don’t realise the extent to which most men will date women that approach them even when they’re not that keen. When you approach men first you’re robbing yourself of one decent filter. When you pay 50/50 you’re robbing yourself of another… Kelly Brook is a prime example of a woman who makes the first move and it’s never worked for her. 40, unmarried ( but wants to be), no kids ( but wants them) and has a string of hot mess relationships behind her. She’s gorgeous but she chases them.

I would let him pay if I wanted to see him again. I would insist on splitting if I didn't to send him a clear message that I wasnt interested. The reason being is that is the expected convention, men still earn more and its romance not a bloody job interview. He is supposed to be wooing me. It's all part of the dance. Once we are an established couple and if we earned the same I would be happy to go 50/50 , of course.

Yeah this is weird. Bumble just means you don't get the weird blokes who copy and paste a message to every single woman they see. I doubt those men go on a date with everyone who replies to them. Probably 1 percent, if that! Also, how do you know so much about Kelly Brook and the inner workings of her mind?

Lol I don’t. The woman isn’t exactly secretive in interviews about her love life.
Anyways it’s all just my experience and opinion. Everyone had to row their own boat

A woman after my own heart! Well said!

Surely your relationship with a person the first time you meet them is a bit different to your relationship when you've been together a while, possibly got married, and had a child together?

As other posters have pointed out, you help your partner/spouse through redundancy and periods where they can't work due to illness, the same will apply to maternity leave. Whether someone will pay the full bill for someone who they've possibly only met a couple of hours ago isn't really indicative as to whether they'd leave their wife and newborn high and dry.

@VulvaTeeth

Surely your relationship with a person the first time you meet them is a bit different to your relationship when you've been together a while, possibly got married, and had a child together?

As other posters have pointed out, you help your partner/spouse through redundancy and periods where they can't work due to illness, the same will apply to maternity leave. Whether someone will pay the full bill for someone who they've possibly only met a couple of hours ago isn't really indicative as to whether they'd leave their wife and newborn high and dry.

You’d be surprised. Men are much more visual than women. Most women complain of men getting less romantic as a relationship progresses so if you start out with him begrudging you the price if a coffee I’d say you’re on to a loser.

I'd hazard that it's more the women who want to be "wooed" by men who end up complaining about a lack of romance further down the line. If you've entered into a relationship based on big romantic gestures and being swept off your feet then it's going to be a bit of a let down in long term relationships, when you've got to deal with the less glamorous practicalities of daily life together. Not necessarily, of course, you may end up in a perfectly happy relationship. But I think there's a better chance of that happening if you know that you like and get on with and are attracted to each other at the beginning of the relationship, rather than one person peacocking around to impress the other.

I really don't know why people on here are so concerned expectations will be on the table if you let him pay. He can expect all he wants, just give him a polite fuck off!

@JassyRadlett

It is not naive at all. My OH is thinking exactly the same. He shared all his money when I was on mat leave. He is very generous with both his time, care and money. It is possible to find a man who is not the tyrant you are suggesting. My friend's OP's are all the same. Perhaps you have just been unlucky or made bad choices.

Aye, and I supported my husband through shared parental leave and Covid-driven hours cuts and salary slashing, just as he’d have done for me if it were the other way around. That’s the partnership thing, though, right? Actual partners without weird unbalanced expectations based on gender?

Hear hear,@JassyRadlett. This is how normal, healthy relationships work in my world. But then I suspect that the women who cling to what they clearly view, erroneously, as a form of ‘pwincess power’ on first dates, rather than starting from a presumption of mutual respect and economic equality, are probably over-represented in the godawful car crash that is the bad marriages of the Relationships forum.

You’d be surprised. Men are much more visual than women. Most women complain of men getting less romantic as a relationship progresses so if you start out with him begrudging you the price if a coffee I’d say you’re on to a loser.

Why is this all about him not begrudging you the price of a coffee, and not the other way around? Why isn’t it ok for him to think you’re a non-starter because you begrudge him half the cost of a meal?

How do you make the leap from you expecting to be paid for to him ‘begrudging’ it?

The double standard is staggering.

I really don't know why people on here are so concerned expectations will be on the table if you let him pay.

You’ve changed your tune, haven’t you? You’ve backtracked to letting him pay from expecting him to and finding it offputting if he doesn’t.

@VulvaTeeth

But we are still often incapable for a length of time. How many women start threads about their tight husbands paying them a pittance in housekeeping while they're on maternity leave or staying at home while the kids are small?

By virtue of being the ones who carry children and earn less over the course of our careers we need to know the person we're with is a provider.

I know not all women etc etc but for me it's true

I'm not sure who pays for what on a first date is an especially reliable indicator of how men will behave when their partner is on maternity leave.

Exactly. I was the higher earner until we had children, then the situation reversed. But since we got married, we shared bank accounts, bills university costs etc. Works for us. Married for 20 years.

But I also didn't expect anyone to woo me, never waited for someone to ask me out and I walked myself down the aisle (in a non white dress), because I am an equal person in a partnership and I don't play games or dances based on gendered perceptions. Neither does my DH.

Am not alone in my thinking either, in my circle of friends.

@JassyRadlett

You’d be surprised. Men are much more visual than women. Most women complain of men getting less romantic as a relationship progresses so if you start out with him begrudging you the price if a coffee I’d say you’re on to a loser.

Why is this all about him not begrudging you the price of a coffee, and not the other way around? Why isn’t it ok for him to think you’re a non-starter because you begrudge him half the cost of a meal?

How do you make the leap from you expecting to be paid for to him ‘begrudging’ it?

The double standard is staggering.

Go on be staggered 😂 I would hope he would think I was a non starter if he was the type of guy looking for a woman to pay on dates. He’d be quite right. I was never interested in those types of guys. As I said before though men pretty much always asked me out again so clearly they didn’t think I was a non starter. I don’t think men are as offended by this as women seem to think they are. As a pp said it’s usually only when men don’t really fancy you they start adding things up. When they fancy you you don’t even see the bill.

Yes

@Itsbeen84yearss, it’s depressing that your sense of self-worth seems to come from how quickly a man whisks the bill out of your sight on a date.

Actually this has been a depressingly informative thread. I now understand far better how so many women on the Relationships forum end up trapped in incredibly economically unequal or actively abusive relationship dynamics if they begin from the perspective of ‘if he fancies me enough, he’ll pay for my Peri-Peri chicken’.

@Gettingthereslowly2020

I think it depends on income. I think it is good manners for the higher earner to pay more often than the lower earner. If both parties earn around the same and have similar financial commitments then of course split the bill all the time.

I can't stand stingy people. I remember paying for a guy on a few dates. He never once returned the favour. He was happy for either me to pay or we split the bill. It left quite a bitter taste. We both had similar salaries but he was living in a cheap house share with a lot more disposable income than me. I was living in a private rented property with a child. I kinda lost respect for him. I'm quite generous and if our finances had been the other way round, I'd have been happy to pay more often.

I wouldn't expect or allow one person to pay all the time but I do value generosity.

I agree with this.

Though if someone has clearly ordered more or more expensive food than the other person I would expect them to pay their share of the bill and not 50/50, unless you are both so loaded you can easily afford any bill.

Not at all. My last dating experience he paid for everything on all dates though. He insisted.