Be honest. If a man expected you...

[AWiseWomanOnceSaidFuckThisShit]

to split the bill on a first date would it put you off?

I also think this is another good reason to just do coffee on a first date. Too many potential issues all round if you go straight into a pricey first date. What if you hate each other on sight?

@knittingaddict

I also think this is another good reason to just do coffee on a first date. Too many potential issues all round if you go straight into a pricey first date. What if you hate each other on sight?

Coffee is the perfect first date imo! Relaxed, easy to cut short if it doesn't go well, and easy to extend later into the afternoon/evening if it does go well. Also - there's coffee involved

I'm married so (hopefully!) my days of first dates are long behind me. But anecdotally, I have always expected men pay for the first date to be honest - especially as I usually opt for a coffee or lunch first date. If he begrudges me £2.50 for a latte then I don't want to see him again! I'm only in my early-mid twenties, so I don't think it's due to any old-fashioned habits.

That being said, I've always been on dates with men who I knew for a fact were better off financially than me (coincidentally, not by design!). If I suspected that I was on a date with someone who had less money than me, I would certainly not expect them to pay.

I would never see them again if they asked me to pay. I dated a ton before Dh and nobody ever asked me to pay. I always went immaculately made up , wearing a dress, heels, hair, nails etc. Tends to bring out men’s chivalrous side. I was looking for a traditional masculine/ provider type. I used the much sneered upon ‘rules’ by Ellen Fein and Sherrie Schneider and they say never see men again who make you pay and you only start paying for small things when you’ve been dating a while.

@Itsbeen84yearss

I would never see them again if they asked me to pay. I dated a ton before Dh and nobody ever asked me to pay. I always went immaculately made up , wearing a dress, heels, hair, nails etc. Tends to bring out men’s chivalrous side. I was looking for a traditional masculine/ provider type. I used the much sneered upon ‘rules’ by Ellen Fein and Sherrie Schneider and they say never see men again who make you pay and you only start paying for small things when you’ve been dating a while.

not envy.

I'm in my late 50's, so have lived through many dating changes, but I loath this approach to men and dating.

If a man has offered to pay on a first date then I have always offered to pay half but accepted if they really wanted to. I do not expect it though and am happy to pay half. I am uncomfortable generally with people paying for things for me and I hate feeling I owe people anything.

@Itsbeen84yearss

I would never see them again if they asked me to pay. I dated a ton before Dh and nobody ever asked me to pay. I always went immaculately made up , wearing a dress, heels, hair, nails etc. Tends to bring out men’s chivalrous side. I was looking for a traditional masculine/ provider type. I used the much sneered upon ‘rules’ by Ellen Fein and Sherrie Schneider and they say never see men again who make you pay and you only start paying for small things when you’ve been dating a while.

Good Lord.

Of course I would expect the man to pay because even though it's 2021 and I'm an independent adult who is capable of buying my own food because when starting a potential relationship with someone I expect to look at me as an equal, I still want the party who happens to have a penis to pay for my meal just because, well they are the one that has a penis.

@justmetoday

He should pay. If hes not even willing to pay for a first date id think hes cheap and stingy and wouldnt see him again. I would invite him on the second date if i like him though.

Surely t works both ways

Of course not. I'd be looking for a partnership of equals and retrograde "man pays, woman gets bought" nonsense would be a bad start to that. I would insist on paying half.

Especially if it was a man I was meeting for the first time. I've let higher-earning friends (male and female) pay for me a few times (and have done the same when I've been the higher-earning one).

Letting him know I intend to pay my way is telling him something important about me.

I don't think much of the women who would actually judge a man for this.

@Itsnotover

Up to you *@SleepingStandingUp*

Well quite, as it is for everyone in this thread

Well I had a much nicer time with dating when I adopted this approach. No 50/50 in any way early on. No travelling to them, no calling them, no paying on dates… Never had any complaints and always got asked out again so it can’t be that radical a concept

@LittleMissMoggy

.... Feel I'm going mad here. Why aren't women tight, unromantic, lazy etc why is the expectation on men to pay for first date? It's just sexist. Can't believe how some on here are then extrapolating to domestic duties when married with children?! This has been too much internet for one day

Because we are the PRIZE to be won by the man who can prove he's the most manly of men by paying for your Starbucks Frappe and Belgian Bun of course!! Women go and look pretty and award access inside of knickers if he proves worthy.

I hate the thought of splitting a bill it's just a faff either I pay or he does it's no big deal if I paid maybe on a 2nd date he would then pay

@CoffeeTopUp
Haircut / colour £90
Nails £25
Eyebrows £10
Dress £50
Shoes £30
New tights £5

So if you aren't dating, you don't bother having your hair cut or nails and eyebrows done? Your happy wearing whatever you have in the wardrobe, paring down the makeup and having a simple cut? So why not extend that to your dates? Surely that's the person they'll end up married to.

Why would you specifically get your hair dyed and cut potentially every week or two, and buy new shoes and dresses every time? When do you ever wear them again??

@Itsbeen84yearss

I would never see them again if they asked me to pay. I dated a ton before Dh and nobody ever asked me to pay. I always went immaculately made up , wearing a dress, heels, hair, nails etc. Tends to bring out men’s chivalrous side. I was looking for a traditional masculine/ provider type. I used the much sneered upon ‘rules’ by Ellen Fein and Sherrie Schneider and they say never see men again who make you pay and you only start paying for small things when you’ve been dating a while.

It's not popular to admit it but a lot of women, including me, expect a man to be a provider and protector. So what?! They're a romantic partner not a work colleague. So much more of a smooth move at the end of the date to pay without making a fuss. I haven't dated for years but I always offered to go halves and they always said they'd pay it. I also used to spend lots of time and money to look nice.

All these women saying they want an equal partnership hence why they pay...so naive. I can assure you the men aren't thinking the same...they're generally thinking, excellent I saved £27.50 on that meal. Oh and when you go off on maternity leave, you won't be able to keep up your equal partnership as your income will dip significantly. He'll have to contribute more or you'll be penny pinching, rinsing your savings or getting into debt.

I'm also old fashioned and think of a man asks you on a date your not the one to pay for it but I would if he asked me to

Totally would expect the man to pay. I would offer but if he looked at the bill and started adding up I'd be off

@Itsbeen84yearss

I would never see them again if they asked me to pay. I dated a ton before Dh and nobody ever asked me to pay. I always went immaculately made up , wearing a dress, heels, hair, nails etc. Tends to bring out men’s chivalrous side. I was looking for a traditional masculine/ provider type. I used the much sneered upon ‘rules’ by Ellen Fein and Sherrie Schneider and they say never see men again who make you pay and you only start paying for small things when you’ve been dating a while.

If you go looking for a "traditional" "masculine" type don't complain when his "traditional" gendered views backfire on you. Personally I couldn't imagine anything more of a turn-off.

If you go looking for a "traditional" "masculine" type don't complain when his "traditional" gendered views backfire on you. Personally I couldn't imagine anything more of a turn-off

That's your type then. That's fine. Personally I prefer a more masculine type man. No need to sneer at it.

Yes I would to be completely honest. I would be more than happy to split the bill, but if he didn’t even offer on the first date I’d be worried he’ll be a tight arse

I would want to pay my fair share. Although I wouldn’t go for a meal on the first date, it would be drinks only.

@Comedycook

If you go looking for a "traditional" "masculine" type don't complain when his "traditional" gendered views backfire on you. Personally I couldn't imagine anything more of a turn-off

That's your type then. That's fine. Personally I prefer a more masculine type man. No need to sneer at it.

These women that do sneer end up being the same ones moaning because they’ve grabbed themselves a cock lodger that sits on his ass while you’re working full time AND doing all the domestic shit and childcare.

I think if he had asked you out ,then it is good manners for him to pay on a first date TBH. Obv if you carry on seeing him then you can pay half as the RL progresses. The power balance becomes unequal OW .

@NannyAndJohn

I've been with DH for 30 years so it's a good while since I've been on a date, but if they didn't offer to pay then I never saw them again.

No one likes a cheapskate.

Your DH clearly likes a cheapskate.

@PatriciaBateman

I used to be the kind of person that was 50/50 'equal everything', but I realised reading this thread that my views have completely changed.

I wouldn't go on a second date with a man who didn't offer to pay.

In my head-fantasy scenario, it goes like this: I offer to pay (because I always would, and follow-through if needed), he says something nonchalant about taking care of it, and off we go.

I would feel appreciative, not take it for granted, and show appreciation back (including via gift giving which I am very generous with), but I would require his initial offer for the relationship to go anywhere. Otherwise, I would cough up politely but make my excuses going forward.

Now why is this? I've had to explore the 'why' myself, so feel free to skip the essay that follows, or dive in if you like a bit of indulgent amateur self-psycho-analysis:

• We are NOT equal

Yes, we are equal in worth, in humanity, in value. But no, we are not equal in society at all - and even less so in the arena of intimate dating where the female carries virtually all the risks - up to and including beating, rape, murder (two of which I have experience of, and am no means rare for this).

There is also the visceral/physical fear involved once one of these things has happened to you (good percentage of women). And even if things are wonderful, the risk of unwanted pregnancy again falls on you - with the mental toll and health issues that transpire regardless of what you choose to do about it. Contraception? Probably my problem too.

Dating and especially sexual intimacy puts a far higher burden and risk on the female.

Society still exacts a heavier toll on me more generally - pays me less, hires me less often, scolds me for motherhood or lack of motherhood, punishes me for being a working mother or a non-working mother, expects more grooming/maintenance, expects more unpaid/unrecognised labour in the home. We are default carer, the default 'be kind' one.

It shouldn't be this way, but it currently is, and I am not one to turn a blind eye to reality any more.
I want a man who sees that reality and is good-heartedly willing to up his own stake because of it. It tells me that he has a protective and nurturing nature, and isn't just out for himself.

In return, I do not take that for granted. I hold deep respect and love for an individual willing to stick their oar out for me, and would meet it with my own generosity in spades.
I think for me - it's that I have finally and ultimately recognised (kicking and screaming all the way) - I do not have equality, nowhere near yet. I don't want a man that suffers (or worse - resents) the illusion that I do.

This.

Not because a coffee and a bun creates equality or makes up for all the shit we go through but because the man wants to show his intention to nurture and provide and that is a quality we will absolutely need at some point.

Saying all that, a smart cocklodger in waiting will pay for the initial dates to lure you in under false pretences so it's not necessarily proof of his character!