Be honest. If a man expected you...

[AWiseWomanOnceSaidFuckThisShit]

to split the bill on a first date would it put you off?

*what, not why!

No, not at all. I’d prefer it that way.

50/50, second date he paid, third date I cooked dinner... we've since bought a house!

@Boatonthehorizon
I've never gone to any of those lengths for a date. I just go as myself in clothes and shoes I already own.

@AWiseWomanOnceSaidFuckThisShit

Okay so... and come on guys it's just a hypothetical wondering no need to get heated :-)

He orders fillet steak. £28. You order a plate of pasta. £7.50. One bottle of wine between you. Then he springs the suggestion on you.

Would you be so happy to split it 50/50 then?! I personally wouldn't class this as a man seeing a woman as equal. I'd see it as him being a shameless, freeloading pisstaker. (That's regardless of whether it's a first date, second or an actual boyfriend).

I like to treat them. I like to be treated back. But when it's shared generally I absolutely HATE going 50/50... and yes this still applies if it's me who has ordered a fillet steak.

I hate when people fuss over the bill. Life is too short. Always 50/50 or 100% for one person.

Havent read the thread but yes it would put me off

Oh but I wouldn't expect an expensive date either so like, coffee, or a bottle of wine between us... maybe coffee and a cake.

No. I find being paid for incredibly creepy. You pay for children, not independent adults.

The poster whose husband has to pay for stuff to feel like a man……😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

I used to be the kind of person that was 50/50 'equal everything', but I realised reading this thread that my views have completely changed.

I wouldn't go on a second date with a man who didn't offer to pay.

In my head-fantasy scenario, it goes like this: I offer to pay (because I always would, and follow-through if needed), he says something nonchalant about taking care of it, and off we go.

I would feel appreciative, not take it for granted, and show appreciation back (including via gift giving which I am very generous with), but I would require his initial offer for the relationship to go anywhere. Otherwise, I would cough up politely but make my excuses going forward.

Now why is this? I've had to explore the 'why' myself, so feel free to skip the essay that follows, or dive in if you like a bit of indulgent amateur self-psycho-analysis:

• We are NOT equal

Yes, we are equal in worth, in humanity, in value. But no, we are not equal in society at all - and even less so in the arena of intimate dating where the female carries virtually all the risks - up to and including beating, rape, murder (two of which I have experience of, and am no means rare for this).

There is also the visceral/physical fear involved once one of these things has happened to you (good percentage of women). And even if things are wonderful, the risk of unwanted pregnancy again falls on you - with the mental toll and health issues that transpire regardless of what you choose to do about it. Contraception? Probably my problem too.

Dating and especially sexual intimacy puts a far higher burden and risk on the female.

Society still exacts a heavier toll on me more generally - pays me less, hires me less often, scolds me for motherhood or lack of motherhood, punishes me for being a working mother or a non-working mother, expects more grooming/maintenance, expects more unpaid/unrecognised labour in the home. We are default carer, the default 'be kind' one.

It shouldn't be this way, but it currently is, and I am not one to turn a blind eye to reality any more.
I want a man who sees that reality and is good-heartedly willing to up his own stake because of it. It tells me that he has a protective and nurturing nature, and isn't just out for himself.

In return, I do not take that for granted. I hold deep respect and love for an individual willing to stick their oar out for me, and would meet it with my own generosity in spades.
I think for me - it's that I have finally and ultimately recognised (kicking and screaming all the way) - I do not have equality, nowhere near yet. I don't want a man that suffers (or worse - resents) the illusion that I do.

my position on it is: pay half , start as i mean to go on
if my approach to life and relationships is equality is essential, why would i expect a man to pay?
never been able to get my head around the mindset of: don’t expect me to do things because i’m a woman ( cook, clean, have children) but as you are a man you should pay/be the breadwinner/do the DIY. it’s hypocritical

Well i got my own coffee and was a bit 🤨 but we're now married with 3 kids so i guess it didnt put me off that much.

I think it would depend on how its done

Yes; it would.

But then I LIKE it when a man wants to “look after” a woman.

I’m 39, but have some traditional values and if that makes me sexist 🤷‍♀️.

I like being treated and looked after by a man.🤣

Oh, I would always offer to split the bill, and actually do even though I’m married and only work 14 hours a week (yes, my husband looks after me!).

Yes it would put me off. No second date. Before people start calling me entitled

1. There is currently no equality for women as much as you may have been brainwashed otherwise

1. Women are more likely to get used and messed around by men than vice versa

1. Men still tend to earn more than women

Sorry, I should add. I'd never want someone to pay for me if we weren't going to see each other again obvs

@PatriciaBateman
I agree with lots of what you've written but think that going along with the old fashioned view that a man should pay actually perpetuates these problems.

@PatriciaBateman

I used to be the kind of person that was 50/50 'equal everything', but I realised reading this thread that my views have completely changed.

I wouldn't go on a second date with a man who didn't offer to pay.

In my head-fantasy scenario, it goes like this: I offer to pay (because I always would, and follow-through if needed), he says something nonchalant about taking care of it, and off we go.

I would feel appreciative, not take it for granted, and show appreciation back (including via gift giving which I am very generous with), but I would require his initial offer for the relationship to go anywhere. Otherwise, I would cough up politely but make my excuses going forward.

Now why is this? I've had to explore the 'why' myself, so feel free to skip the essay that follows, or dive in if you like a bit of indulgent amateur self-psycho-analysis:

• We are NOT equal

Yes, we are equal in worth, in humanity, in value. But no, we are not equal in society at all - and even less so in the arena of intimate dating where the female carries virtually all the risks - up to and including beating, rape, murder (two of which I have experience of, and am no means rare for this).

There is also the visceral/physical fear involved once one of these things has happened to you (good percentage of women). And even if things are wonderful, the risk of unwanted pregnancy again falls on you - with the mental toll and health issues that transpire regardless of what you choose to do about it. Contraception? Probably my problem too.

Dating and especially sexual intimacy puts a far higher burden and risk on the female.

Society still exacts a heavier toll on me more generally - pays me less, hires me less often, scolds me for motherhood or lack of motherhood, punishes me for being a working mother or a non-working mother, expects more grooming/maintenance, expects more unpaid/unrecognised labour in the home. We are default carer, the default 'be kind' one.

It shouldn't be this way, but it currently is, and I am not one to turn a blind eye to reality any more.
I want a man who sees that reality and is good-heartedly willing to up his own stake because of it. It tells me that he has a protective and nurturing nature, and isn't just out for himself.

In return, I do not take that for granted. I hold deep respect and love for an individual willing to stick their oar out for me, and would meet it with my own generosity in spades.
I think for me - it's that I have finally and ultimately recognised (kicking and screaming all the way) - I do not have equality, nowhere near yet. I don't want a man that suffers (or worse - resents) the illusion that I do.

Yes! Much more eloquent. Thank you.

There's a subtle difference between meeting up and being taken out.

1st dates are predominantly meeting up. If it's a coffee or something similarly low key, the costs are typically inconsequential. If it was drinks, it's normally rounds. In the case of a tab, I'd offer, but would not insist if the suggestion was 50:50.

Dinner (or lunch), frequently the domain of 2nd date (although more 50:50 drink dates may have preceded), I've normally asked a woman out. I'm taking her out, not suggesting a get together. It's my invite, and I'm expecting to pay. If my date offers, I'll insist otherwise. If she is still adamant, then I'll happily agree. In 3 years of dating women from 28 to 50, I've never had a woman be adamant that it has to 50:50 though.

Post dating, and coming up to 2 years with a new partner, I'm still 'dating' her. I arrange to take her out, take her away, etc. She's hugely independent and what she insists on, goes. But our dynamic is that I lead (9/10) on romance. We are largely equal share on everything else and I am treated very often with unexpected bits and bobs as she's equally as generous.

Works for us.

@Itsnotover

Yes it would put me off. No second date. Before people start calling me entitled

1. There is currently no equality for women as much as you may have been brainwashed otherwise

1. Women are more likely to get used and messed around by men than vice versa

1. Men still tend to earn more than women

So would you only date a man who earned more or would you expect him to pay more regardless of how income because "men" earn more?

People saying "well women carry the higher risk - being attacked, pregnancy, abusive partner" etc. Whilst obv true it makes me feel uncomfortable this being a reason that the man should pay. Like it somehow balances it out even a little bit. It doesn't.

@SleepingStandingUp

People saying "well women carry the higher risk - being attacked, pregnancy, abusive partner" etc. Whilst obv true it makes me feel uncomfortable this being a reason that the man should pay. Like it somehow balances it out even a little bit. It doesn't.

It's nothing to do with 'balancing' anything out. It's incumbent on the man to show that he will go out of his way to make an effort on a first date because of the pre existing power imbalance. Not just paying but being generally attentive. It reduces the possibility that this man is out for what he can get. (Not always)

However, if you want to further the cause of women being equal, by all means do so.

I have lost count of the times I hear about women getting all dressed up to go on a date, only to be blown off when they're already on the way. Or ghosted immediately after sex. These things happen to men much less often. That's a fact.

In addition, men generally have an incredible sense of entitlement about what they 'deserve' in a partner. Courtesy of the patriarchy no doubt.

We don't live in a world where women pretend to like a man so that he'll sleep with her.

I'm not denying that, but i don't think (for me) that's a logical Reason why men should pay.

Well you should pay because you might ghost me after sex....

Up to you @SleepingStandingUp