Boyfriends ex wife is warning me…

[Owlberry]

My boyfriend and I have been seeing each other since March. He’s kind, lovely, we have great chemistry. The perfect package so far… He’s been separated from his ex wife for a couple years now. Their marriage sounds like it was pretty awful towards the end. He’s said how it was slightly abusive (mentally) and that he thinks she could be a narcissist. He’s also said that she thinks he’s the narcissist!

His ex wife has just sent me a message warning me that he’s incredibly manipulative and I should be careful. I’ve never met or spoken to her before this. That she’s just looking out for me because I’m young (I’m mid 20’s, they’re 30’s/early 40’s). He hasn’t shown any signs of narcissism that I know of so far but I’m aware they’re good at hiding it at first.

Based on her social media she doesn’t seem to be over him yet which fair enough, they were married for a decade. She’s constantly posting about their relationship issues even now, a couple years after they’ve separated.

Could this just be a hurting ex trying to get back at him? Should I listen to her advice? Not sure if I should even bring it up with him.

@CaptSkippy

I also want to add that the stuff you describe that are not red-flags is the bare minimum is a relationship, such as the "not screaming at each other" and the "no consenquences for cancelling dates". That's how it's supposed to be. I am sorry you didn't have that with some of your exes, but that does not excuse this situation.

Yup, I agree with your previous post of numbered points, and with your observation that the op's sense of normal seems quite distorted.

@Millymog I was responding to the "biological clock" argument, which I have heard hundreds of times during my lifetime. The thing is that I never thought having children is wrong, but that it was just not something for me. But people just couldn't leave it alone. I have been on the receiving end of everything from "you'll change your mind" to "What is wrong with you?" and "How can you be so selfish?"

The whole thing has made me feel pretty negative about it over the years and it makes me wonder if that "biological clock" is not more a feeling of being browbeaten about the subject so often that you start to doubt your own mind.

Another Aussie Here. You sound like you have your head screwed on and are not a pushover and are open to listening to others with experiences with what could be similar relationships. Enjoy the moment but be be aware and alert. Wish you well.

CaptSkippy

I totally understand your post and do not dispute it. My own sister (who is still married and would make a fantastic parent) is (by her own words) "child free". I have talked to my brother-in-law a few times and still do not know (nor would I encroach) on whether this is "did not want children" or "could not have children". Either way it is the same, it is an always (at whatever time in life it is obvious to the person (may I say woman?) ) .

It is all good. God knows what my child free sister (for whatever reason) brings to my life I am eternally grateful for.

On a personal level I will not lie. I did feel a bit of pressure during my late 20s. And I was acutely conscious of my biological clock.

So maybe OP does not feel that in which case I step back.
But I still cannot walk away from the fact that there is a window for women where there is not for men.

And I am only trying to participate here to say to OP she should be aware of it.
If it turns out she does want children that does not change her boyfriend from being what he is - but it is a factor she should take into account.

I really think OP should not take the initial post on "do I want to have kids" or "do I not want to have kids".

It is clearly about whether this relationship is a runner or not.

It is impossible to know.
Sadly at 2021 I still think women in their 20s attract premium rate attention from men (rightly or wrongly) and the attention is very likely to be for reasons to do with the men not reasons to do with the woman (i.e the woman's attractiveness).

I have no doubt that OP is sexually and aesthetically attractive. Or if she is not (unlikely) there will be other reasons why her boyfriend wants to be with her.

All I am trying to point out is that if she is not 100% sure about him she is wasting time. I accept this might be an out dated view of life (if so Hurrah!!)

@captskippy - I knew I didn't want children by the time I was 12 too. I kept on knowing that until I got pregnant at 35. After my first baby I also "knew" I desperately wanted a second. Unfortunately I had left it too late. Cue years of unsuccessful IVF etc.
Never, never underestimate that biological clock.

Hello OP. When I was 20-something my (older) husband’s ex contacted me to say a few oblique things and ‘good luck, you’ll need it.’ He made me block all her addresses while he watched. A decade later I wish she’d spoken more strongly. I am now a wreck with not even the energy to get divorced. He was and is utterly toxic.

Men have a window too. Apart from the fact that they too will eventually be infertile, sperm reduces in quality each year. Older men's sperms gives greater risk of complications during pregnancy and developmental problems with the child.

OK ignore the biological clock thing if you want OP.

Good luck xx

Agree this isn't what it's about but be wary OP, I also was entirely adamant (and was rightly offended when people insisted otherwise) that I didn't want children. I can't tell you how strongly I felt about it, and it was from a very young age for me.

I met my exH, got to about 33 and suddenly really really really wanted children. It was the most powerful urge I have ever felt and it was pretty scary to have my internal self so upended suddenly.
We got married and subsequently divorced but never did have kids - my decision because of the state of the relationship, with hindsight I shouldn't have married him in the first place.

I'm really glad because I'm actually back to I don't want kids place, it was a really strange multi-year blip for me.

Anyway my rambling point is that you may not want kids now and you may stay that way.
But, say this relationship works out and the two of you get married or otherwise long term are committed to each other.
It is also a possibility that like me you will encounter the "blip" and suddenly find you want children. Now it may be that the urge doesn't last like me, but it's possible that it will so it's something to be aware of for future you.

The "firsts" for the sake of being first don't matter but if you are a 10 on the scale of excited about something because it's your first time experiencing something and the other person is about 4-5... well it does grind you down a bit.

I'm sure you are a really switched on person but ^ was something I was absolutely sure would never happen to me and it did. Life is weird.

What

WhoIsPepeSilva.

says.

I think the "firsts" are a thing.
I think you should think about it OP.

At 25 I wouldn't be pursuing this relationship. Even if she is the narc here if you become stepmum you'll have to deal with her inadvertently for the rest of your relationship. And that's possibly best case scenario! It just all feels like a lot of hassle when there are a load of lovely baggage free guys out there, even if it might take a while to find them!

I hope that doesn't sound too patronising, I'm only 30 myself!

He probably thinks you're 'easier to handle' because you're a lot younger OP.

Yes pictures we’ve taken together, tags me in date ideas etc. They also have mutual friends who have probably told her

I suspect he's using you to get back at her - you're a trophy gf.
I'd run a mile personally.

The fact that you were raised by a narc worries me more.

Things often seem 'normal' to us that are anything but normal.

Do you have a trusted friend you can talk through relationship issues with who will tell you when it seems 'off' and that you would trust above your own judgement (which may be impaired when it comes to identifying some dysfunctional behaviour)?

I think people are making an excellent point that it's one of two scenarios:

1. He preyed on you because you are younger and he is going to be problematic in future.

or

2. The exW is actually the problem and will cause innumerable problems for you over the course of your lives together.

Either are not great options and if it were me I'd be looking for something more straight forward from a relationship - and that's at any age.

It's easy to think that you'll cope with the baggage because x,y&z but living the reality could be very hard. When you weigh that up versus a relationship with no baggage which would you choose for yourself if you took the real people out of the equation?

Op, can you share more details of the message? The fact that she says he is highly manipulative is relevant.

I ignored references from Exh's Ex (because her behaviour which I witnessed wasn't brilliant) but NOW I know she was telling the truth and acted a little crazy but it was due to his provocation. He tries to do it to me (so I'm aware be must have sent texts to his Ex and then sat back and watched the fireworks) but I steadfastly refuse to engage. I am at least grateful that her experience showed me how NOT to behave. The fact she did want him back could be because she wants a father or family, not that he's great. Financially how is she coping? I.e does she stay home, work part time?

The issue with manipulation is that you don't know it's happening until much too late. They can keep up the mask for a long time and it only slips when power in the relationship changes.

I really thought ,"we" were just better suited than his Ex. How naive and arrogant was I!!

As pthers say, you are in your prime and you won't appreciate how amazing this is until an older man takes years from your life. If you were my family member I would be hoping you end the relationship.

Are you aware of covert narcissists? One area to watch is his empathy. Does he show genuine empathy (not cognitively empathy) or consideration for his Ex? If they have had children he must be able to talk about her positive qualities. Ask him about her great qualities.

I would listen to her. Yes its likely she's bitter towards him, but as he's painted her as the 'bad' one do you really believe this is just bitterness? He could have chosen a woman his own age, with kids, they would be at the same lifestage. Instead he's chosen a much younger woman with no 'baggage', unlike him.

Fwiw whenever I've dated a man with a 'crazy', 'jealous' or 'abusive' ex wife it's always turned out to be my boyfriend who was the issue. Usually he turned her 'crazy' by lying, cheating, gas lighting etc. I now avoid men who make these claims, huge red flag for me.

I have a generally amicable relationship with my exhusband. I certainly wouldn't feel the need to 'warn' a new gf of his about him. Listen to the woman!

I’d drop him , I couldn’t be bothered with all that he said she said nonsense, I wouldn’t be happy with her messaging me either

You’re in the prime of life.

I’m not sure you should settle for a middle aged bloke with children who is a) abusive or b) has a vengeful ex wife.

@Millymog

well i am not saying our situations are similar - i could not possibly know.

all i know is that my ex husbands new wife puts up with all manner of shit from my ex husband (bullying, trantrums, financially tight, pity parties etc) which he also did to me (and I am genuinely relieved I am no longer with him).

i kind of feel sorry for her, although i have never had any contact with her and i only know this from comments my kids make when they come home from his.

the irony was (she was late 20s and he was just turned 40 when he left me for her) i think the main thing which attracted her to him was the "i'm so experienced / rich /can protect you /give you what you want" thing i am sure he told her at the start. Really she wanted a baby (she has got one now) but i do not envy her being a step mum to my two kids (age 11 and 12) as well as being a mum to her own 2 year old, especially as totally predictably he has left her to do all the lions share of the child raising herself.

if you are still in your 20s you are at the best age to be most attractive to loads of men so i would really say try to go for someone your own age.

I'm in exactly the same position. Any criticism I make of anything they do (only ever regarding my children and justified) is met with them both telling my kids that I'm jealous and bitter, while he's in the pub every night and she's at home with a baby on her own.....

LyndaMcLynda

I hear you.

Not sure how far in you are tonight but I have noted your post. xx

As you know abuse does strange things to you. There will always be a part of me, I think, that will miss my exH and want to be with him IYSWIM?

It becomes even more complicated when children are involved.

They say it takes on average 6 attempts to leave an abusive relationships so it's possible that the exW stating she wanted him back was part of a relapse?

I honestly don't know but I do know that it's a lot of drama regardless.

• FWIW it's an extremely teeny, tiny particle of me that feels that way. The rest of me would never put up with anything that made me unhappy for a nanosecond.

Contact the ex again and have a good chat with her.
No reason to tell him you're doing it either.