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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Boyfriends ex wife is warning me…

302 replies

Owlberry · 27/08/2021 14:45

My boyfriend and I have been seeing each other since March. He’s kind, lovely, we have great chemistry. The perfect package so far… He’s been separated from his ex wife for a couple years now. Their marriage sounds like it was pretty awful towards the end. He’s said how it was slightly abusive (mentally) and that he thinks she could be a narcissist. He’s also said that she thinks he’s the narcissist!

His ex wife has just sent me a message warning me that he’s incredibly manipulative and I should be careful. I’ve never met or spoken to her before this. That she’s just looking out for me because I’m young (I’m mid 20’s, they’re 30’s/early 40’s). He hasn’t shown any signs of narcissism that I know of so far but I’m aware they’re good at hiding it at first.

Based on her social media she doesn’t seem to be over him yet which fair enough, they were married for a decade. She’s constantly posting about their relationship issues even now, a couple years after they’ve separated.

Could this just be a hurting ex trying to get back at him? Should I listen to her advice? Not sure if I should even bring it up with him.

OP posts:
Original poster
Owlberry · 27/08/2021 18:06

@Millymog
Not my intention haha, was just answering your questions.
I like that he’s intelligent and thoughtful and (so far at least) any time I’ve raised issues with him we talk it out without any judgement rather than scream and play stupid games! Which was something I’ve dealt with with my exes.

He doesn’t provide me with material things, it’s not a sugar baby arrangement or anything like that haha.

OP posts:
Original poster
Owlberry · 27/08/2021 18:09

@Millymog
She left him and then wanted to get back together a couple months later (confirmed via her message to me). It turned sour once she realised he didn’t want to get back together (not confirmed)

OP posts:
midsummabreak · 27/08/2021 18:15

I wonder if he would be so kind and happy to show you off on social media as you are with him, if you were 55 ?

Millymog · 27/08/2021 18:18

And for fear of dredging up the old chestnut which is your body clock.

You say you are late 20s.

He has you at your peak and every day you stay with him you are giving up much more than he is.

My ex was very clever about this and his second wife was played (even tho at the time she did not think she was, infact I think she found it super flattering that my ex husband left us for her).

He and she moved in together. Our (very acrimonious) divorce proceeded. Very shortly after all of our matrimonial assets were sold and we (ex H and me) respectively got our share via divorce courts, she turned 33 (having been with him since she was 29) and he got her pregnant.
6 months later after he had negotiated a detailed pre nup with her (saying they would not share finances) he married her. He was 45 when they married and 46 when their baby was born.
The point of sharing this sorry tale with you OP is that my ex H new wife is firmly and permanently bound into that situation because she now (i) has a 2 year old toddler (ii) ex H tells her she does not need to work although she wants to "because he earns so much" (iii) ex H does not want another baby because he is too old (iv) his new wife is now 36 about to be 37 so has devoted around 7 of her fertile years to my ex H (who now bullys her etc)
She also has the "pleasure" of being step mum to my kids.
Of course my kids are lovely but she wont feel that way about them - I just thank my lucky stars that she is half way kind to my kids every other weekend but what a burden to take on.

So it might be un politically correct to say this but your mid/late 20s and 30s are much more valuable to you than to him - he can go on having kids for decades should he so choose to. If you devote any length of time to him it is much more of a sacrifice for you in so many ways.

midsummabreak · 27/08/2021 18:21

But that’s a red herring I guess.

It’s down to what kind of person he is.

he’s portrayed his ex as narc and then had to tell you that she stated she thinks he’s a narc, so he definitely feels threatened enough to be defensive before you have even met her or anyone else who can tell you what happened from the other side of the family

ClaireFraser2018 · 27/08/2021 18:21

If you want to know more about narcissism with its love-bombing, devaluation, negging, gaslighting, discarding, hoovering, triangulation watch i.e. Dr Ramani on youtube. Very informative!

Urghhhhh · 27/08/2021 18:24

I'm going to apologise in advance if it's been mentioned already, but i strongly recommend Dr Ramani's youtube channel. She's a therapist that specialises in helping victims of narcissistic abuse. Her content is so so helpful. She even covers all the inconspicous telltale signs that can tell you you're dealing with a narcissistic. Sooo eye opening!

Cleverpolly3 · 27/08/2021 18:24

At your age I would get the hell out of dodge

Cleverpolly3 · 27/08/2021 18:25

@Urghhhhh

I'm going to apologise in advance if it's been mentioned already, but i strongly recommend Dr Ramani's youtube channel. She's a therapist that specialises in helping victims of narcissistic abuse. Her content is so so helpful. She even covers all the inconspicous telltale signs that can tell you you're dealing with a narcissistic. Sooo eye opening!
She really is very insightful isn’t she
Original poster
Owlberry · 27/08/2021 18:26

@midsummabreak
His gf before me was his age and he had no issues posting her :)

OP posts:
me4real · 27/08/2021 18:26

I would see it as a red flag and a sign you should keep your eyes wide open.

If any other issues come up, bin him.

Original poster
Owlberry · 27/08/2021 18:29

@Millymog
That sounds terrible. I have no desire to have children thankfully.

OP posts:
Original poster
Owlberry · 27/08/2021 18:29

@Millymog
(Biologically)

OP posts:
CaptSkippy · 27/08/2021 18:30

OP, there are several red flags in what you posted.

You've been dating for about 4-5 months and already you have this:

  1. He is al lot older than you.
  1. He bad-mouths his ex (whether it's justified or not, it's very early days for such stories)
  1. He "isn't perfect"? Well duh, no one is. If he really is a narc this is you're "Well I did warn you about me, so you can't complain about my bad behavior" signal.
  1. Already wants to introduce you to his quite young children. This is too early. Seems like he is rushing the relationship.
  1. You now have a warning from his ex too.

This is not a good picture, OP.

Millymog · 27/08/2021 18:30

Oh and as a post script.
My ex H (who admittedly was having an affair with his now wife whilst we were married so not the same as here) - was clearly with new "girlfriend" when we were married.
The penny dropped very slowly for me as to what had been /was going on. But the "introducing the children early" is a very real thing.
It took my ex husband less than 6 months to introduce our 4 and 5 year old to his now wife.
And he emailed me to say he was going to do it (after I had realised there was indeed someone else) and I believe in retrospect it was my very reply asking him to wait to introduce our children which motivated him to introduce them to his now wife.
Early introduction to children is defo a sign of being a narc.

CaptSkippy · 27/08/2021 18:34

I also want to add that the stuff you describe that are not red-flags is the bare minimum is a relationship, such as the "not screaming at each other" and the "no consenquences for cancelling dates". That's how it's supposed to be. I am sorry you didn't have that with some of your exes, but that does not excuse this situation.

SciFiScream · 27/08/2021 18:35

His ex probably realises he's not being complimentary about her when he talks to you...and she STILL made the effort to get in touch.

With that fact and all the other complications I really think you should take a break from this relationship and date other people.

Listen to women.

Millymog · 27/08/2021 18:40

"any time I’ve raised issues with him we talk it out without any judgement rather than scream and play stupid games! Which was something I’ve dealt with with my exes.

He doesn’t provide me with material things, it’s not a sugar baby arrangement or anything like that haha."

OK that is all good. Maybe he is the real deal but it still sounds like there is quite an inbalance of power.

All I would say is (1) I noted your preference not to have children - that might well be genuine but it is quite a statement to make if you are late 20s. Please just be aware that the female biological clock is a real thing (unfair tho that is) and that the time you are giving him costs you more than it costs him in that sense (2) I strongly advise you never to give up working for your own money which is completely separate and independent of him.
I still think you are (forgive me) a trophy girlfriend for him so please bear that in mind (you might not be fussed about that but do not be deceived that it is somehow a flattering thing to be / be thought of).
Good luck.

Gonnagetgoing · 27/08/2021 18:42

I can bet that in 2 or less years time you will be on mumsnet complaining about your current or ex partner and your situation.

I think he’s targeted you as a few older men have (and his younger ex) because you’re less mature, have less life experience and are willing to put up with his shit. A woman his age or a bit older would run for the hills as should you.

Heed the warnings here.

mathanxiety · 27/08/2021 18:47

I would ask this woman for the details your BF won't talk about, and thank her from the bottom of my heart.

CaptSkippy · 27/08/2021 18:48

@Millymog

"any time I’ve raised issues with him we talk it out without any judgement rather than scream and play stupid games! Which was something I’ve dealt with with my exes.

He doesn’t provide me with material things, it’s not a sugar baby arrangement or anything like that haha."

OK that is all good. Maybe he is the real deal but it still sounds like there is quite an inbalance of power.

All I would say is (1) I noted your preference not to have children - that might well be genuine but it is quite a statement to make if you are late 20s. Please just be aware that the female biological clock is a real thing (unfair tho that is) and that the time you are giving him costs you more than it costs him in that sense (2) I strongly advise you never to give up working for your own money which is completely separate and independent of him.
I still think you are (forgive me) a trophy girlfriend for him so please bear that in mind (you might not be fussed about that but do not be deceived that it is somehow a flattering thing to be / be thought of).
Good luck.

Oh, give me a break. I have known that I did not want children since I was twelve. I am appraching my 40s now and I am glad I made that decision early. I have had people try to hit my over the head with that "biological clock" for over two decades now. It's annoyingly condescending and plain wrong. You can actually make that decision with good reasons rather than rely on hormonal changes.
Millymog · 27/08/2021 18:58

CaptSkippy

noted.

There are many many many women in the world who do not want children and deliberately plan their life on that basis.
There are also women who want children who do not get them.
There are also women (often young) who find themselves in relationships which might not be the most healthy, and the one way to ensure they remain in those relationships is..... you guessed it ... for the woman to get pregnant.

Sometimes both parties want it.
Sometimes it is an accident.
Sometimes the man wants the pregnancy but the woman does not
Sometimes the woman wants the pregnancy but the man does not.

All I am trying to say is, if there is any (even tiny) inkling of doubt in OP's mind about whether she wants children, the biological fact is in her late 20s she could (by the sounds of it) spend valuable time (months years decades) with someone and end up with both no children (if she ever wanted them) and ultimately no relationship.

samyeagar · 27/08/2021 19:01

I made it a point to never bad mouth my ex-wife to anyone I was dating, including my now wife. If I had told them the truth upfront, it would have put me in a very bad light as seen in this thread. The way I figured it though is that since my ex-wife is diagnosed NPD, I'd let her be the one to show herself for what she was.

It really didn't take my ex very long to start in with warning my now wife with all the horrors that I was, and that she just couldn't in good conscience let another woman fall prey to me and all that sort of stuff. The kicker was when my ex warned my now wife that I was a narcissist, borderline, and possible schizophrenic.

I am very glad my wife did not act upon the unsolicited advice and warnings of my ex, and my wife has explicitly said as much herself.

evianlion · 27/08/2021 19:02

Abuse isn't about "being a narc" so if that - combined with "is this man a replica of my dad?" - is the basis of your risk assessments that is unsafe and unsound.

People who have experienced abuse in the past often end up in the clutches of another abuser, because they fall into the trap of comparing the new person in best behaviour to very specific tactics of the abuser at their worst. Pretty much anybody who doesn't precisely mimic the ex-abuser ends up being lauded as "lovely" even if they are in fact just as abusive, albeit differently. "My ex used to strangle me but my new man is lovely, he just slaps me sometimes when I make him mad."

Different abusers use different tactics in different ways and at different stages to achieve the shared aims of power and control over you.

Look for warning signs of abuse, not comparisons or tick lists to previous abusers or "narcs".

Millymog · 27/08/2021 19:03

PS CaptSkippy (forgive the divergance OP) - and I did not make that decision due to hormonal changes (somewhat condescending to suggest that is the reason why women have children??).

Having children is an enormous lifelong commitment whatever your age and whatever your motivation.