Are (seemingly a lot of but not all) men really put off by intelligent women?

[bathsh3ba]

Is this a thing?

Generally speaking I think I probably would get on best dating someone of a similar level of education/intelligence. I'm just finishing a PhD; I don't think of myself as especially clever but I am intelligent and I am well-educated.

I don't want to limit my options when dating too far so I'm open to people who haven't gone to university or who don't value education in the same way, if I think we share other values that are important.

However, increasingly I am finding that as soon as a guy finds out I'm doing a PhD I get raised eyebrows, a 'wow, you must be clever', then some self-deprecating comment and they lose interest.

I always thought the idea of men being threatened by intelligence was just a myth. Obviously I need a man who isn't ... but is being threatened by intelligence actually a thing?

Find someone who is secure in themselves and proud and supportive of you.

This ^ wot @StartupRepair said

I would add interesting to talk to (not the slightly mysterious type of interesting, who can be trying to cover a vacuum)

Thank goodness the uninteresting ones weed themselves out. I wouldn't expect to enjoy continuing a conversation with anyone whose thoughts stopped at "wow, you must be clever".

There are so many different kinds of 'cleverness'. Anyone who lumped them all together would be problematical for me.

My husband has no qualifications at all but is extremely emotionally intelligent and wise He is always able to asses relationship and friendship issues in discussion with our children and is a wonderful help to them. I have an MA and held down a cerebral type job We have lots to talk about of an evening. My husband was not threatened by me when we first met. He knew his own worth and is very secure.

I just have a degree but I haven't found it so. I've only been attracted to very intelligent men and all my partners have had degrees or more.

I have degree educated friends who are married to tradesmen.

There are lots of men like this - they also react badly to women who are doctors, lawyers, or run their own businesses, so it isn’t just “cleverness” that’s the issue. It’s being better than the man at anything, when a woman’s role is to do the housework, provide sex and look on adoringly as the man does impressive stuff.

I would see it as a twat filter, but yes you are limiting your dating pool.

Definitely be upfront as it weeds out the insecure people and those who are going to be idiots about it, but I have had happy and fulfilling relationships with partners who are post docs and those educated to GCSE standard.

I think this is only a problem if the person you're dating has low self esteem. My late H didn't start sneering at my degree until his life started going south after losing his parents and turning to alcohol - at that point my every effort at support was met with a sneering remark about me having gone to University and knowing it all. It was very sad.

I haven't started dating and may never do so - I am enjoying life as a single person - but none of the men I talk to in RL seem to have an issue with my being educated and reasonably intelligent.

For many people, studying to PhD level is so outside of their "normality" that I suspect it is quite intimidating to them.

I'm degree educated and my dad is a doctor and mum a nurse, but DH dropped out at fourteen. None of his family did their A-levels let alone considered university.

For many people, university is way out of their reach (either academically or financially) and therefore the idea of spending 5/6/7 years studying to PhD level is just so outside of their normality that they find it intimidating. And I think that's very understandable. It's like two different worlds.

@MimiDaisy11

I think it depends although some of the highly intelligent women I know who are single are also quite assertive and dominating so when they make similar comments to the theme of this thread I do wonder if it’s more personality traits than their education which puts men off.

I have friends who changed their OLD profile from “doctor” to “nurse”, no other changes, and saw a massive increase in swipes. So no I don’t think it’s just that.

It’s hard to say what about teaching at university and working on a PhD is putting those men off dating you. It could be any number of things other than they prefer their women stupid. Could be the fact that academics are usually on the left politically so they assume your political views would be in opposition. Could be that they believe in the “ivory tower” myth and think you’d be pompous and arrogant but with no real world experience. Could be that they don’t value education and realise many academic jobs are underpaid and they’re looking for a sugar mama. Could be they’re looking for the future mother of children and think that a woman with a doctorate is less likely to give up her career and having a stay at home wife and mother is important to them.

Depends, if you have a PhD in STEM subject I think this generally intimidates both men and women.

If its Arts, then no one cares. That just means you had too much time on your hands.

First, I don’t see doing or having done a PhD as a mark of intelligence especially. I’ve known and worked with some deeply mediocre people who have been fortunate enough to be able to spend 7+ years in higher education. Obviously not everyone is intellectually capable of completing a PhD but i think it is a stronger marker of social class.

But, second, if what the OP is saying is a significant ‘thing’, surely this would be a recognisable phenomenon that would show up statistically, be written about in The Guardian, etc etc? As it is, it seems more likely that it’s a common or garden personal preference that some people legitimately hold? For example I can well believe that there are lots of women who value brawn and ‘being handy’ over brains

Both myself and my partner have a masters degree. We've been together since undergraduate and did the post grad in the course of our relationship. I would say this is well educated but not especially so. We'd both like to do PhDs but money is an issue. Anyway, from my level of education I know lots of people with masters or PhDs. I think once you know plenty people with this level of education you realise it doesn't make you some kind of genius and like you say although lots of work a PhD is just a very narrow area of expertise. Although I do really admire and understand the huge amount of work involved so that's really not meant as an insult.

So I wonder if it's about being put off by what they don't understand? Not that this is a remotely attractive behaviour in a man of course! Either way although it may make dating more challenging. They're sorting themselves for you!

@DrMorbius

Depends, if you have a PhD in STEM subject I think this generally intimidates both men and women.

If its Arts, then no one cares. That just means you had too much time on your hands.

I work in the cultural sector and PhDs in in the arts are massively valuable to both understanding and preserving all sorts of art and cultural output. In addition there's loads of research into the social, health and well-being impact of arts which is hugely valuable.

So you're talking utter nonsense. Really showing your ignorance about the value of art, bit embarrassing for you.

Wow, this got a lot of messages since I last looked. Thanks for all the comments. Just to clarify a few points...

I'm absolutely not only interested in dating people who have a similar level of education. I think education and intelligence are very different things. He does have to be able to hold a decent conversation on a variety of topics and to be reasonably intelligent. But he doesn't have to be educated.

I'm not remotely lefty. Maybe I need to make that clearer to people! I agree most of my colleagues are, but that's one reason why I'm not really interested in dating anyone I meet through work.

That said, valuing education is one of my core values. If someone thinks that education doesn't matter, we just won't be compatible. I So for example, I'd be likely to ignore anyone who put 'university of life' on their profile as it's just facetious.

I really don't think I am being snobbish, talking about myself too much or looking down on anyone. If they think I am, maybe it's more about them than me. But I'll certainly watch myself to make sure I'm not giving off that impression inadvertently.

I could not mention the PhD but it's kind of a huge part of my life. And it means I'm broke, so it's not about money either! I'm finishing in the next few weeks anyway, have job interviews coming up. I wonder if saying I'm a lecturer will get better or worse responses!

I think some people not just men might have a very specific view of PhDs - as being very academic / white tower / not like “common people” with “common concerns”.
More than being a step up from a MA, and different from a professional qualification that may (who knows? Maybe none are) similarly difficult to achieve (e.g. actuarial exams? but again they may not be anything as cognitively taxing as a PhD).

Oh please don’t not mention the phd. As you say it’s a big part of who you are and what you do.it should be a talking point. Don’t dumb yourself down because some blokes have an issue.

I don't think it's intelligence per se putting them off... but it is probably the PhD. Academics are usually skint, often neurotic and prone to cheat at conferences, so not good dating material.

Keep the relevant information on there as it will help you weed out the ones who are bothered by it. It may reduce the number of people available to you but you probably wouldn't go on to have a successful relationship with someone who was intimidated by your intelligence anyway. It says more about them than you.

I haven't dated in a pretty long time, but I never found that being "intelligent" was off-putting per se. Many men said that one of the things they liked about me was that I was "smart".

I think it's more of an academia thing than an intelligence thing. And I don't think it's confined to men. My IQ is measured in the thousandth percentile - I wouldn't feel "threatened" by your intelligence, but I wouldn't consider you as a partner because I'd think we were from very different worlds. I left school after GCSE exams as I desperately wanted to get out into the working world. The thought of staying in education for as long as you have makes me want to claw my eyes out 😂

Flatdisco
I work in the cultural sector and PhDs in in the arts are massively valuable to both understanding and preserving all sorts of art and cultural output. In addition there's loads of research into the social, health and well-being impact of arts which is hugely valuable.

So you're talking utter nonsense. Really showing your ignorance about the value of art, bit embarrassing for you.

Thou dost protest too much.

I never went to university although I wanted to, it just wasn't done in our family. I'd have wanted to study zoology if I'd had the chance but life didn't work out like that. But I have friends who went to uni, and have degrees in various subjects. I'm able to converse on a variety of subjects and people say I'm interesting.

Years ago I got contacted on OLD by a guy who had a PhD in a science field. He seemed genuinely interested in my profile, asked lots of questions.
Our first messages were talking about travel and various life experiences, he was really chatty and asked loads of questions. But I didn't think he could possibly find me attractive because I was "lesser" than him, having not attended university myself. But I enjoyed our interesting conversations. He was also a creative person, impressive all round but I got the impression he was quite a loner. When he started flirting I was really confused because I had already put him on a pedestal and decided he was out of my league. But I flirted back a bit. Unfortunately we never met, I believe he had some insecurities about certain aspects of his appearance and anxieties (which he'd hinted at but I hadn't furthered discussion so I could try to reassure him that it didn't matter). I wish that we'd met in real life, in a bar or something, as OLD can totally make things difficult as you can form the wrong opinion of someone behind a screen, it's a massive barrier in some ways.

@thedancingbear it is very widely reported, in the Guardian and other places. Google it, I got Independent articles on the first page of results

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/life-style/study-confirms-men-are-turned-clever-woman-unless-she-beautiful-a7176051.html%3famp

My DPs previous long term partner was as intelligent (more so on paper) than he is and he said that by the end of the relationship they just pissed each other off. I think there was a lot of work talk (they were in the same industry) and the light heartedness and fun disappeared. So when we were dating he liked how giddy I was and saw it as light relief.

I think there’s two separate things at play here—one about men wanting to date intelligent/successful women, the other about wanting to date a PhD candidate. Personally (if I were a man!) I would be hell yes to 1 but not so sure on 2–mainly because I’d wonder whether someone who is quite down an academic rabbit Warren would suit my lifestyle, assuming I worked in an office/had a high powered corporate kind of life. Just a very different world without a lot of crossover. Personally (as a woman!) I don’t think I would date a PhD candidate but not due to intimidation (have master’s and professional job) but more because I would want someone with a compatible city job and lifestyle

Honestly I think it's only men (or women) who would have quite a low level of education that would raise eyebrows and comment "you must be smart" for doing a PhD. A friend of mine who was from a very working class background and whose family all had very WC jobs was convinced that her husband was insanely threatened by her doing a diploma (worth 3 A levels) and it caused her marriage to breakdown. To her a diploma was a very high level of education and people really respected her and looked at her in awe, whereas most people probably thought it was very normal.
OP you need to start looking for men on your educational level.