Should I Let Her Husband Go Too?

[Perriwinkles]

So, I am female. I have a male childhood friend. He met his now wife and she and I hit it off … in time. I made a huge effort with her & wanted to make sure she knew just how platonic her husband and I were. A true friendship then developed.

Roll on 8 years later and she and I had got very very close. Then one day, it all imploded. I thought it was a bad fight (& our only ever fight) but she cut me out entirely even though we had left each other on good terms that day. I was devastated & asked for an explanation. She wrote me a nasty text that I didn’t know she was capable of. I had never been so close to a friend & it affected me terribly. I spoke to a therapist about it and lost a lot of sleep.

Her husband, my long-standing friend, still makes an effort to maintain his friendship with me — we see each every once every few months and some texts. The problem is that every time I see him I am re-triggered. The friendship break-up cut me deep and seeing him opens up the wound every single time. It takes me weeks to recover. I have never once brought any of this up with him and I never discuss her with him. He brings her up though as he is consumed by her.

What do you think? Should I try to slowly phase him out too? The problem is … He’s universally adored! He’s one of those guys who doesn’t see people often but puts on his game face when he sees them and so ‘the gang’ all love him (when they see him at get-togethers, weddings etc.).

I want to move on (as I know she has) but what should I do?

Don't feel bad. You're busy, right? Busy making some headspace and looking after your mental health. That's allowed, it's a legitimate reason to not text back. And if you never ever text back, that's preferable, I'm just reminding you that there are many, many reasons why people don't always respond to texts immediately. He shouldn't expect a reply today by default, and if he does, that's more proof that he thinks he's got you dangling and loves the attention you give him, to the point that he expects it, even believes he's entitled to it. What he does next could well be an eye opener for you, OP. Stay strong: we've got you.

Don't feel bad. You're busy, right? Busy making some headspace and looking after your mental health. That's allowed, it's a legitimate reason to not text back
Thank you. It’s time to take control.

What he does next could well be an eye opener for you, OP. Stay strong: we've got you
It will be and thank you very much. This thread is very helpful.

I just re-read the whole thread and it’s as though the scales have fallen off. I’ve made a few decisions:

1. I’m not going to send a card or a present for the baby. His wife told me that she needed to step back from me. I took the blame for everything and she never apologised for her twisted, nasty text and even gaslit me about it. It would be pathetic to send their baby a gift. I already graciously wrote a lovely text addressing them all when he was born. That is enough.

1. I am going to take the slow fade-out advice. I’ve been so entangled in a codependent, people-pleasing cycle that I haven’t even noticed how much I’ve neglected myself for the past two years. I met him one time even though the previous time he had really really upset me by speaking to me in a way he would never speak to others and saying things he would never dare say to others. I’m so flabbergasted and disappointed in myself that I stood for that.

1. It still makes me angry, yes angry just how sucked in people are by him and I can’t for the life of me understand why people go to great lengths to see him when he makes no effort with them but layers it on as required. I have so many examples of this and please take my word for it: it’s for real. It’s very important to him to be adored. I wish he wasn’t part of my group but he is. Even though he’s peripheral, people simply love to go the extra mile for him. This will, no doubt, continue to infuriate me but hopefully in time I won’t be the only person who sees through him.

1. In the coming months, I’m going to take up a hobby that involves meeting new people. I’m a bit terrified at the thoughts of it but I need new people in my life and people who live nearby.

1. I’m going to try, in time, to dissolve my anger and try to take whatever gifts this messy situation has offered as a learning experience. In time. I’m clearly not there yet!

Thanks for all of your advice. I know some of you seemed understandably exasperated by me at times but I really appreciate the input of almost everyone on this thread. You are such a smart, intuitive, clever bunch of people. Much love Mumsnetters.

I disagree with other posters that the fade out will work. As soon as he notices he will cling and "love bomb" you and being the nice person that you are, you will likely cave and be back at square one. I think you need to be clear with him that you are done. Don't go in the details and give him ammo but do get some closure.
I'd send something along the lines of: " I have decided that for my sanity and well-being I need to take a step back from you. If you respect me as a friend, you will respect my wishes and not contact me further. I wish you all the best. Take care. Perriwinkles"

Thanks @Und3rl1ng

I do know what you mean … I feel lovebombed regularly by him. He’s so conscious in his behaviour: all so controlled.

My fear with a message like that is that it’d be twisted … I remember ‘drifting’ from a friend who was regularly crazy/mean to me when she was drunk. I look back and am glad I never confronted it directly. She told a mutual friend that ‘we seem to have fallen out of touch.’ I do agree that The Husband won’t go as easily as she did but if I’m less available than before, hopefully this will work ….

That said, I tried to do it with another friend and thought I had. 1.5 years later she got in touch assuming I was as busy as she was and I didn’t have the heart to follow through … we are still friends now.

I think if you keep the message to the minimum without going into details, there isn't much he can twist. The best he will be able to say is: "She cut me off out of the blue without explanation". It's then up to you whether you fill in the other friends in your circle on what your actual reasons were (if they care enough to ask)
This way you have closure and it's a lot easier to ignore/block him after that since you have made your intent clear.
I fear if you try to phase him out, as soon as he senses it, he will come at you full charge and rope you back in...
You need to clean cut to move on!

@Perriwinkles

I just re-read the whole thread and it’s as though the scales have fallen off. I’ve made a few decisions:

1. I’m not going to send a card or a present for the baby. His wife told me that she needed to step back from me. I took the blame for everything and she never apologised for her twisted, nasty text and even gaslit me about it. It would be pathetic to send their baby a gift. I already graciously wrote a lovely text addressing them all when he was born. That is enough.

1. I am going to take the slow fade-out advice. I’ve been so entangled in a codependent, people-pleasing cycle that I haven’t even noticed how much I’ve neglected myself for the past two years. I met him one time even though the previous time he had really really upset me by speaking to me in a way he would never speak to others and saying things he would never dare say to others. I’m so flabbergasted and disappointed in myself that I stood for that.

1. It still makes me angry, yes angry just how sucked in people are by him and I can’t for the life of me understand why people go to great lengths to see him when he makes no effort with them but layers it on as required. I have so many examples of this and please take my word for it: it’s for real. It’s very important to him to be adored. I wish he wasn’t part of my group but he is. Even though he’s peripheral, people simply love to go the extra mile for him. This will, no doubt, continue to infuriate me but hopefully in time I won’t be the only person who sees through him.

1. In the coming months, I’m going to take up a hobby that involves meeting new people. I’m a bit terrified at the thoughts of it but I need new people in my life and people who live nearby.

1. I’m going to try, in time, to dissolve my anger and try to take whatever gifts this messy situation has offered as a learning experience. In time. I’m clearly not there yet!

Thanks for all of your advice. I know some of you seemed understandably exasperated by me at times but I really appreciate the input of almost everyone on this thread. You are such a smart, intuitive, clever bunch of people. Much love Mumsnetters.

I think this is all bloody brilliant OP, well done. I respectfully disagree with the latest poster and think that to send any message now gives him potential ammunition with which to engage and upset you so the most self loving thing to do is to walk away snd grey rock like you plan to in your latest post. Well done you

I think this is all bloody brilliant OP, well done. I respectfully disagree with the latest poster and think that to send any message now gives him potential ammunition with which to engage and upset you so the most self loving thing to do is to walk away snd grey rock like you plan to in your latest post. Well done you

I also completely agree. Any kind of explanation text plays right into his narrative, and confirms he's got you right where he wants you. I also think an explanation can be argued with, it gives him an opening - don't give him that. Also to use the same language she did of saying you want to 'step back' from him/them is just going to make it worse.

You've come a really long way OP, and unfortunately the part of Und3rl1ng's post I do agree with is that he'll try and hoover you back in by lovebombing you, and probably turning a lot around onto you. That's going to be the hardest part of fading it out, because he'll pull out all the manipulative stops, but grey rock/no reply sends the absolute strongest message if you can do it. Keep this thread handy, keep strong. There's an amazing thread, I'll try and dig up a link if you haven't read it, it was by a woman who was suddenly dumped by text. I know this is a friendship rather than a relationship in that sense, but her strength was inspiring and she never ever texted him back. MNers predicted exactly what he would do as it played out, and they were right. She stayed strong and is, quite frankly, an absolute legend. It's a lesson in taking back control.

I think this is all bloody brilliant OP, well done. I respectfully disagree with the latest poster and think that to send any message now gives him potential ammunition with which to engage and upset you so the most self loving thing to do is to walk away snd grey rock like you plan to in your latest post. Well done you

Another one in complete agreement with this. It would be better to never send him another text or message ever again. Well done for finally seeing through him, OP. He may well come back and love bomb you once he realises you are no longer jumping to his commands. Just ignore it all or grey rock if you must respond. I was glad to see you sticking up for yourself in your decision not to send a present and not to give in to his manipulation. I am sure you're not the only one who thinks he's a total dick - others will come around in time, or maybe they have been waiting for YOU to come around!

@Und3rl1ng
This way you have closure and it's a lot easier to ignore/block him after that since you have made your intent clear
I do get what you’re saying. It just doesn’t feel right at the moment. I am concerned that he will simply never get the message - like my friend who contacted me 1.5 years later assuming we had both just drifted. However, he’s an intelligent guy and he knows the history so hopefully he’ll pick it up. I wish I had such clarity right after she ditched me because it would have made more sense than but I was too busy trying to stay friends with him and appear reasonable.

Thanks @Mummyford

It's going to be hard to stay the course in the face of his inevitable lovebombing, but the benefits will be huge
It’ll be interesting to see if this is what he’ll do … & he probably will … I’m not looking forward to that. But I know how it’s supposed to feel after seeing a mate (good) and it certainly doesn’t feel that way with him!

Thanks @ZeldaPrincessOfHyrule

I read that thread! I recall running in the rain featuring strongly. I was amazed at her resolve. My situation is different in that he hasn’t done anything as overtly ‘wrong.’ I wish I didn’t have such delayed reactions to things.

At my own wedding, for example, he bit the head off me. Meanwhile, a friend who had never met him before was texting me saying how kind he was to her and how he ‘must be the nicest person I’ve ever met.’ That’s a direct quote!

I was glad to see you sticking up for yourself in your decision not to send a present and not to give in to his manipulation
Thank you. I’m comfortable with that decision. I can’t believe I was even considering sending a present. Granted, my ex had suggested to me that I should send something but how strange would that be when his wife hasn’t extended the olive branch. I had thought she’d contact me as she seemed to calm down after I apologised but I guess pride and stubbornness (& straight-up self-absorption) prevented her from bothering.

I am sure you're not the only one who thinks he's a total dick - others will come around in time, or maybe they have been waiting for YOU to come around!
I’m Certain there are people out there who think this but definitely not in our group. Believe me when I say how revered he is. Just the other day, one of our friends was telling me she’d like to travel 4 hours to visit him and meet the baby. Meanwhile, he has never once visited her and only meets her when it’s convenient for him at crazy short notice. The mind boggles! But I guess I was as bad once.

He made you feel shit at your own wedding??
I was going to say as long as you don’t answer, you’ll start feeling angry and it looks like you might have already. You’ll realise lots of things were not at all ok.

@Karwomannghia
He did yes and guess what I did? I tried to justify. But there was no justification. All I did was laugh at a benign joke his friend made and he bit the head off me. He was so out of line and he knew it. I’m so angry I didn’t say, ‘excuse me?’ and just walk away. I’m so angry I absorbed it. It’s too late to ever bring that up with him now: so many times I should have stood up for myself.

The sickening part was watching him schmooze everyone else at my wedding. He then sent me a gushing text after the wedding about how amazing it was etc but i see now it reeked of insincerity.

OP, I think you should do whatever you're comfortable with.

The reason I would personally end it with a text is:

1- I like to get closure and it would strengthen my resolve to not respond after that. I would probably text, block and delete.

2- He also gets his closure and can't go whining to your entire circle that you've ghosted him without so much as a word of explanation.

3- As a friend who is sometimes mean to my friends by telling them what they don't want to but NEED to hear, I think it's very possible that one of my friends might at one point have left a conversation upset with me. If that what the case and they felt the need to cut me off, I would like them to at least tell me and not ghost me without a word.
Not knowing exactly what your friend has said to upset you, it's very hard to determine if he has earned that courtesy, but on the off chance that his hurtful comments came from a good place, I would at least give him a heads up if I decided to cease contact.

4- I am weak like you and I know I could never complete a "phase out" successfully. I would probably cave after the third text (or sooner).
I don't have it in my heart to block someone without a word either. So "text, block and delete" is the easiest solution, as far as I'm concerned.

Whatever you decide to do OP, I hope it works out and you can be free of the both of them.
You'll clearly be better off without them!

@Perriwinkles

Thanks *@ZeldaPrincessOfHyrule*

I read that thread! I recall running in the rain featuring strongly. I was amazed at her resolve. My situation is different in that he hasn’t done anything as overtly ‘wrong.’ I wish I didn’t have such delayed reactions to things.

At my own wedding, for example, he bit the head off me. Meanwhile, a friend who had never met him before was texting me saying how kind he was to her and how he ‘must be the nicest person I’ve ever met.’ That’s a direct quote!

Well that's VERY telling isn't it, on your wedding day he had a go at you? What, he didn't like you being the centre of attention when that's his role?! What a wanker. On my wedding day my best friend told me I looked the happiest he's ever seen me, and beamed with joy the entire day. He was the one who banged the gavel and announced us to the reception. He and his partner are vital in our lives, they are like an aunty and uncle to my children. That's what you deserve, friends who enhance your life, not blight it with their shiftiness. You say he hasn't done anything 'wrong' but he has, I bet there are more times when he's made sure you don't forget he's the one with the power to take you down a peg if you ever look like you're rising above him. It's a toxic friendship where he uses you as an ego boost, a punching bag, and you're finally starting to see it.

I'm so glad you read that other thread, it's brilliant isn't it!

@Und3rl1ng

What you write makes a lot of sense and I think I need to sense out what I should do.

As a friend who is sometimes mean to my friends by telling them what they don't want to but NEED to hear, I think it's very possible that one of my friends might at one point have left a conversation upset with me. If that what the case and they felt the need to cut me off, I would like them to at least tell me and not ghost me without a word
I’d be upset about this too but friends so rarely do this. I don’t think I’ve ever had a friend tell me that something I said bothered them. I do agree that ghosting isn’t the nicest way to go about it but they’ve moved on with their lives and as a PP said, I don’t want to make it seem like it’s about me, at a time when they are celebrating their new baby.

All I know is that I won’t be sending a gift and card - of that I’m now certain. I won’t reply to the text he sent yesterday. If he texts again, I probably will reply but I’ll grey rock him and if he suggests meeting the baby again, I think I’ll simply reply, ‘tbh I think meeting him might be a bit too sad/strange without [your wife]’ … at least that’s what I think I’ll do …

I’m definitely not going to continue to pretend all is fine and I won’t be engaging in banter over text anymore. I mean, I have four brothers and none of them have ever treated me as badly as this guy has despite being insensitive or moody at times.

Shittiness, not shiftiness! Autocorrect trying to make me a bit less sweary there

from what i’ve read you’ve still got a somewhat foggy view of the friendship. and you’ve responded to a lot of suggestions with ‘yes yes you’re right about that i’ll do that’ so it seems that you have a lot of people pleasing tendencies wrapped up in all of this too. there’s only so much a thread can help you see the light and make the change about this situation, you’re going to need to wake up and make the change come from you OP. if you were in a place to send him packing you would have done that and not held back because of your mutual friends and how long you’ve known him.

from my own experience the one landmark narc friend behaviour pattern i noticed is when such friends get in touch out of the blue with something random to ‘test the line’. either to check you’re still hooked on them or to make sure you’re on good terms (in their eyes) before they get to what they really want from you. because it’s always about them, isn’t it? start to recognise his standard behaviours and you’ll soon be able to bat them back with the grey rock approach.

If he does text to ask you to meet the baby, I really wouldn't mention the weirdness or his wife. Any mention of her is going to give him a way in, and you might even get some sort of "What? Why? I don't know what you mean..." bollocks from him designed to give you enough rope to hang yourself. If you absolutely must reply to an invite, be as vague and grey rock as you can. How old is the baby, is it still a newborn?

@ZeldaPrincessOfHyrule

Yeah that thread amazed me. I looked back at some of my pathetic behaviour around men I went out with and wished I had a fraction of her self-regard and resolve.

Well that's VERY telling isn't it, on your wedding day he had a go at you? What, he didn't like you being the centre of attention when that's his role?! What a wanker

Yeah what a wanker! He also took the piss out of my make-up and never said I looked well. His text afterwards, however, was nauseating, as though that’s the bit in writing that made him look like a great guy. Why the fk have I been putting up with this crap??? I’m not stupid. I’m well able to read people. What was I thinking?

But it’s too late now. If I ever brought that specific incident up, for example, I’m the weirdo bringing up something from years ago. I seem to be so caught up in people-pleasing in the moment that it takes a while for misbehaviour to sink in.

@snackodactyl

I hear you and I know. I might book in a few therapy sessions to discuss this but it galls me that I’m giving over therapy to talk about them when she’s ‘better than ever’ and he’s doing so many different things for himself . Meanwhile I’m the sad git hung up on this stuff. I know how this all looks. Lack of self-awareness isn’t my problem, my problem is these hardwired, entrenched, people pleasing and codependent traits. I needn’t bother ye with my childhood but it’s all fairly textbook. Look how quickly his wife processed what happened with her & me despite being upset. Look how capable she was of prioritising herself despite painting herself as a helpless victim time and again. Look how assertive she was and look how quickly she dumped me. Yet Here I am dragging this on for years to prolong my own emotional suffering.

from my own experience the one landmark narc friend behaviour pattern i noticed is when such friends get in touch out of the blue with something random to ‘test the line’. either to check you’re still hooked on them or to make sure you’re on good terms (in their eyes) before they get to what they really want from you

Yeah - he did this recently. Wrote the most nauseating text when really he wanted something from me. So guess what happened? I delayed replying but he went to another friend of ours who texted me to find out what he wanted on his behalf! He’s f**king shameless.

@ZeldaPrincessOfHyrule

Yeah the baby is very very young.

If he texts again, I probably will reply but I’ll grey rock him and if he suggests meeting the baby again, I think I’ll simply reply, ‘tbh I think meeting him might be a bit too sad/strange without [your wife]’ … at least that’s what I think I’ll do

No, don't do that - that's giving him your feelings. Either don't respond or grey rock instead. "Not got time at the moment, lots on, you know how it is." But best to just not reply.

I agree with pp that you're still somewhat in the FOG stage (fear - obligation - guilt). The fact you think he hasn't actually done anything that wrong - and then in the same breath tell of how he abused you on your wedding day - shows that you are still minimising and justifying. Get angry! He treats you like shit and you're supposed to run around after him and feel bad when you don't give him attention? Crazy.

Re. your mutual friends all loving him. It's always the way with bullies, that they have to have a team of loyal supporters. If your mutuals really can't see through his shit then you will have to refuse to discuss him with them and be very careful about them getting involved in this dispute. When I broke things off with my narcissistic intense friend situation (lots of similarities to your situation) I lost the whole group of friends, too. Be prepared for him going on the attack.