Bastard bingo - full house!!

[helplesshopeless]

Hi everyone, just creating a new thread for those interested as my second is nearly full now! I'll link back to the old one once mumsnet's browser is back up and running

He is very calculating and manipulative and you need to stop him getting into your head.

DD doesn't gain any extra waking time with him if you change the pattern unless he has her every weekend.

I'm sure DD gives you big hugs and misses you too!!

Please get your ex out your head. He has shown you time and time again that he is abusive towards you and by default DD because he uses her as a weapon. Completely grey rock and just ignore everything.

Stick to the contact agreement and stop communicating. After all he has opposed you having a holiday with DD yet simultaneously wants it 50:50 - he will only ever be a one way street.

@helplesshopeless I think you should keep a notebook/doc somewhere. Two columns. In one, things you have compromised on/changed for him (SINCE the split), in the other, things he has compromised on/changed for you.

Maybe keep a supplementary one of times YOU'VE asked for changes, and times HE has asked for changes. Write down every time he does it, even if it's a repeat.

it does worry me that I've got this small cloud over my new relationship because of how it started.
Does anyone else that you know think that, apart from ExH?

Can you see how his thinking still pervades everything still?
Your new relationship started under a cloud - not - your new boyfriend saved you from an abusive marriage
6/14 is unreasonable - you're worried it is
Your daughter misses him desperately because he doesn't have 50/50 - you believe this to be the case

Please start asking yourself what you think? And test whether your default response is what you want, or what he's trained you into responding with over years of abuse.

Your boyfriend is a bloody knight in shining armour as far as it sounds on here. You should be shouting about it from the rooftops!

This is why everyone on here is telling you to grey rock, reduce contact with him, no discussions - it's not only to make your life easier with DD, you need to do it to allow yourself to detach and recover, and relearn who you are, what you think, without his toxic white noise constantly playing in the background of your mind.

Stay strong OP.
You are letting him wear you down and in years to come you will massively regret giving him more time.
Block him and set up an email address that only he uses and only check it occasionally.
It is so worrying reading your posts. I'm worried you'll lose your daughter as he wears you down repeatedly. You're stuck in the same patterns that lead to harm for you.
Like why on earth did you give him the passport?? For an easy life? Well please learn that short term peace from his abuse leads to long term worse repercussions.
Protect yourself and your daughter from this terrible man. He's possibly the most sinister man I've ever read about on here.

The passport would gave gone between them anyway, he could refuse to return it at will at any further altercation. In fact I'm guessing it will happen every time after he has had his holiday & H wants to go somewhere.
Hopefully he will get all loved up with new gf, & leave H the fuck alone.
As for the guilt... absolutely, it was XH who destroyed the marriage, OM is really neither here nor there & the only good thing about this whole abusive situation.

Thank you ladies.

I had an interesting revelation the other day actually. I was emailing a friend who works with these kind of situations to get their advice, and in doing that I looked through my old notes of things exh had been doing during the period when we were still together and 'working on' things. I was shocked at how nasty he'd been to me when we were still together. At the time I was excusing it as him being very upset and struggling to stay calm over what I'd done, but looking back I can now see how awful it was. For his current behaviour for the situation I am in now, I am excusing it as him feeling upset about not seeing our daughter as much as he likes and lashing out to me as a result, but perhaps in time I'll look back at this period and also feel shocked at this current behaviour.

cavagirl it was helpful to see you set out the pattern of thoughts like that, you're completely right that he still gets into my head and makes me doubt everything.

random, funny you should say about her missing me when she's at his, I had a FaceTime from her last night and she was very upset as she wanted to be with me. I don't know what brought it on and it was horrible as I wanted to go over and scoop her up immediately. Anyway, he of course has decided that I've been doing something while she was at mine to turn her against him and have an 'alienation agenda,' and was extremely abusive to me about that. He even blamed me for the fact that she didn't want him to wash her bottom in the bath, apparently she said only mummy does that (actually I don't, I encourage her to wash her private parts herself) which I expect she just said as she didn't want him involved. Apparently all part of my agenda to turn her against daddy!! Anyway as part of his ranting to me he's officially said he will not be approving any holiday without 3 months notice so I'm giving up on that now.

He just doesn't understand her at all! If she expresses that she misses him, he must have more time with her, but if she wants to be with me then it's because I've done something to attempt to turn her against him

I wish I could see her tonight, I've contacted nursery and said she was a bit subdued on arrival today but has now brightened up, so I'm hoping she has a happy day.

As horrible as it was to see her upset, it's strengthened my resolve that I won't be agreeing to a change in pattern and she needs consistency with me at the moment and for the foreseeable future. So that's a small positive that's come out of it at least.

Glad you're able to get some perspective on him - ONE day you'll realise he's just been a bit of a wanker, probably since childhood, and your behaviour/presence is more or less irrelevant to that. If it weren't you he were mistreating, it'll be someone else!

He just doesn't understand her at all! If she expresses that she misses him, he must have more time with her, but if she wants to be with me then it's because I've done something to attempt to turn her against him I think you know this but OBVIOUSLY this isn't that he doesn't understand her, he doesn't care what she feels. He doesn't care what you or his daughter or probably any other woman (or person) feels, only about manipulating you into doing what he needs. In this case it's a) saving money b) making you feel as bad as possible.

Where is he when he's ranting these things at you? Is he on the phone or FaceTime? If he starts why don't you try to say to him 'can I stop you there, if you continue to verbally abuse me I will put the phone down on you' When the next word comes out of his mouth, regardless of what he says, if you find it abusive or makes you uncomfortable, then hang up.

I know it feels like a big step and that it might set him off again, but you're safe at home, he will abuse you as much as he can. Just simply stop giving him the ability to abuse you. Hang up every single time. It seems you don't get anywhere by rolling over and letting him abuse you, so you might as well not put yourself through it. The minute he starts, hang up.

@BowerOfBramble yes I think you're right to a certain extent. He generally lacks empathy and struggles to see things from other people's perspectives. He does care about how our daughter feels, but isn't able to understand why she might feel something, ie if it's a sad or difficult feeling that she's expressing about anything at all then his default position is to blame me for creating the negative feeling. Which ties in with using it to manipulate me. He has zero emotional intelligence for someone who prides himself on being such a clever person!

@2DogsOnMySofa this is all on WhatsApp! He'll be sat in the office at work presumably acting normally but sending me horrible messages 🙄 I generally don't respond apart from if something needs sorting or clarifying for our daughter's sake. Stupid of him really as it means I have indisputable evidence of his nonsense!

Block on WhatsApp and tell him to email.

Read once a week. Give yourself more head space.

He does care about how our daughter feels, but isn't able to understand why she might feel something, ie if it's a sad or difficult feeling that she's expressing about anything at all then his default position is to blame me for creating the negative feeling
Actually, I'm not sure he does. I think to a large extent he simply dislikes how her being upset or sad makes him feel. Do you remember way back when, I think it was alcemeg who pointed out his inability to endure any feeling of discomfort, and his need to immediately take it out on someone else or act on it? This is that.

You can alternatively archive and mute him, and open it at certain times when you want to. Either way the solution is you taking control of how and when he contacts you.

If nothing else change your what's app settings so they don't show messages as read.
Settings - account - privacy - read receipts.
Turns them off for everyone but think it's worth it, plus you can switch of your status or when you were last online. All worth it for protecting your privacy from him.

@helplesshopeless not sure if I'm correct on this, but please photo all messages as I think he can delete messages he's written if he wishes.

Thanks ladies. He is archived/muted so I don't get notifications and his messages aren't right there when I open WhatsApp. Also have read receipts and 'last seen' turned off - prompted a few weeks ago by him being ominous about not immediately replying to one of his threatening messages! I do mainly ignore his messages now unless it's something needed for our daughter.

@Cavagirl, interesting points about not liking how her feelings make him feel, as opposed to caring about hers. There's surely some overlap there though, for him to feel upset about her feelings he must have some care about them?!

TBH I think he just anything she says/does to have a go at you or dena d what he wants.

He has shown continually that he only cares about himself and happily weaponises DD.

Yes you had an exit affair but you were absolutely miserable because of his unkind and selfish behaviour- utterly blind to how anyone else was feeling in the family.

Why do you desperately want o believe he's had a personality transplant?

I know I sound like I'm in denial!! It's just hard because in our 9 years together I saw lots of sides of him, and there was a nice kind side. Obviously there was also a horrible side and I saw that more as time went on! So I know he can choose which behaviour he displays and I'm used to giving him the benefit of the doubt and instantly forgiving his outbursts and so on. It's a difficult habit to break and I keep hoping he'll make the right choices for the most important issues ie anything impacting our daughter!

He's only ever nice to manipulate you, that's consistently what he's done ever since you met him.

I remember your first ever post and the picture you painted of him, oozing resentment & disapproval, sniping & agression in every glance.
This is the real person he is, this is why you had an exit affair, this is why you left.
His primary character was angry & critical. Nothing has ever been his fault, so if DD cries or misbehaves, it is always going to be your fault.
Everything has always been your fault.

There's surely some overlap there though, for him to feel upset about her feelings he must have some care about them?!
I don't think it matters? His reactions to her being upset/sad are in response to his feelings about that, not hers.
You see someone responding ineffectively to an upset child, when he blames you for the situation or lashes out.
I see someone responding to their own discomfort, in a way that's highly consistent with the dysfunctional, toxic way they have responded to their own feelings of discomfort historically.

That's not helpful to the child, regardless of whether the origin of those feelings of discomfort are from a place of distress at the child's upset. The outcome is the same.

He's not going to change. If he couldn't manage to make good choices when he was apparently trying to work on his marriage, he isn't going to make good choices now.

No one is saying these things so you feel terrible about having "married a monster" or similar hyperbole. We're trying to open your eyes to the fact that you're still behaving towards him now in the way you did when you were married, and expecting him to have a personality transplant if only you treat him with the correct kid gloves - and that isn't going to end any differently to how it did when you were married. It won't work. You need to see him for what he is, not what you wish he was, and plan and act accordingly.

Thank you, all of you  it's so strange, I can feel a switch inside me when he's suddenly helpful or cooperative for a second (even when I know it's only momentary) as if I suddenly feel like actually he's not a big bully and I should have stayed with him. It's the weirdest thing as I know he'll be back to being a knob soon and it's not like a moment of niceness should excuse all the bullying that's preceded it!

@Cavagirl what you've said makes complete sense. I know you're right, I just need to work on un-learning my habitual responses to him 😇

Ah OP totally see that happening. It’s because of that thing we talked about threads back where he expects you to be perfect and any small failing is unacceptable, but he’s trained you to put up with any amount of his crap and any small effort is to be massively rewarded.

Frankly if he hadn’t trained you so well to feel like this you’d have probably dumped him years ago. So yes it’s sickening but now you know what’s happening you can just have a word with yourself like “oi you’re doing that thing again - he’s still a prick remember”

• any small effort OF HIS

(Effort for him includes basic things like being polite and kind to his child’s mother)

OP I think you're just used to switching like that because in the past, when you were stuck with him, that sheer relief when he behaved nicely translated into renewed faith in your marriage and the potential for happiness within it. That hope and faith was what kept you going.

Coping mechanisms like this can be very hard to outgrow, because they become second nature.

In fact you might never completely outgrow it. Although my ex-DH and I are now capable of limited contact (an email every couple of years when something big happens), he is still able to trigger my anxious nurturing instincts with just a passing comment. I've started thinking of my relationship with him as a bit like an alcoholic's with bourbon -- just a taste of it can set you reeling, so best to avoid altogether.

Absolutely, you're both totally right.

I remember once years ago, before we were married, he was in a bad mood over something (we may have argued, can't remember) and we were out for a big meal with his extended family. He was short and rude with everyone including me, and I felt incredibly anxious and on edge, even shushing his family who were winding him up to avoid any further nastiness (I whispered to his sister 'shh don't, he's in a bad mood!')...after a while he decided to snap out of it and put his arm behind me over my chair and I nearly cried with relief.

It wasn't always that extreme though (or hardly ever) - in the later years I was a bit more forthright and just got on with stuff with my daughter until he was over whatever the issue was.

I dunno, there were awful times (and some nice and good times) but also a lot of the time things were just the usual drudgery of lockdown life with a toddler at home while we worked!

Totally true though that any small failing of mine was/is escalated... his topic today is berating me for allowing my daughter to come into bed with me at night which I should be discouraging apparently, although he assumes I'm 'enjoying the dependency element' 🙄

Honestly, you have to laugh. I mean it's tragic but he clearly thinks he's some kind of butler running a large household of servants/sergeant major with troops/dictator talking to his slaves rather than a very ordinary bloke making requests of a woman who is his legal equal and over whom he has no authority whatsoever.

Having your daughter in bed with you isn't even a failing! I mean, how silly. He obviously couldn't think of anything better. I bet he's an absolute treat to work with (please tell me he's not a manager) and an enthusiastic regular in the Daily Fail comments section.