Bastard bingo - full house!!

[helplesshopeless]

Hi everyone, just creating a new thread for those interested as my second is nearly full now! I'll link back to the old one once mumsnet's browser is back up and running

Rental sounds ideal, esp if the landlady wants to look after you a bit .

It will be soooo good to hear that you are not living with him any more, and you won't believe how good you feel being in your own place...don't leave it too long to move in, little kids don't even notice decor

You know he is likely making up all sorts of stuff to hurt & frighten you?
Good news re rental. Is there any point in waiting ?
I'd just go asap.

Can you keep the address hidden indefinitely?
it is YOUR safe place, your new home.
He does not ever, EVER get to come inside,
Not for coffee, not to wait for DD to get ready, not for Xmas,
Make sure you lock the doors, put a chain on, get a ring door bell.

Hello there, loveyourself2020 reporting to you with a brand new name .

Dear woman, you are such a nice, kind and gentle person and I am so sorry that this is happening to you, that you have this ogre for a husband. But the things are moving, rather slowly and perhaps not in the exact way you want them to, but they are moving. Pretty soon, you will be free, and believe me, nothing is as sweet as freedom. I know you will miss your beautiful home, the life you have imagined for you and your child, you will feel bad a lot for quite some time, for you, your daughter and your husband too. But things will start changing, you will start feeling so much better, you may not even realize it. You will be calmer, happier, more content. There will be no anxiety, nervousness, nausea in your body, you will be looking forward to coming home after work, or after spending time outside, you will be singing while cooking dinner for you and your baby. I promise you, life will be a such a bliss you will not even notice the ugly wallpaper on the wall.

Thinking of you and sending you loads of hugs, I wish I can deliver in person.

Great news about the rental! In just two weeks you can (if you want) get outta there.

Honestly it doesn't matter what the neighbours think of you because they won't be your neighbours soon.

Providing you both stay safe in a perverse way I'm almost glad your ex is keeping up his loathsome behaviour as a constant reminder of why you're leaving him.

Do I gather that you and OM are back in touch now? Is he being supportive? Are work still being kind?

Brilliant news about the rental. Get straight into that avocado bath the first night after you’ve made your bedroom your own, with a glass of wine or cup of tea and let your freedom wash over you.

@freeatlast2021 Loving your new username!!!!

you will start feeling so much better, you may not even realize it. You will be calmer, happier, more content. There will be no anxiety, nervousness, nausea in your body, you will be looking forward to coming home after work, or after spending time outside, you will be singing while cooking dinner for you and your baby. I promise you, life will be a such a bliss...

I hope this is a little glimpse of what life is like for you now.

@Alcemeg
Most of the time

Thank you everyone for your well wishes I have been Googling budget ways to spruce up avocado bathrooms also been shopping today for some bits for my daughter's room! Am dreading telling her though, hope to do it jointly with my husband but I don't trust him to be able to do it in a helpful and positive manner.

@FoxgloveSummers yes, me and OM are back in touch and he's been a true saint. It was my birthday recently and he had somehow managed to get a recreation made of the item of my grandad's that my husband ripped up the other month (based off a photo I had of it). I'm obviously conscious of jumping into things and safe to say my daughter won't know of his existence for a long time, but he's honestly keeping me afloat at the moment.

@freeatlast2021 so lovely to hear from you and hear your description of what your life is mostly like ❤️ are you still sleeping well? How are your children doing?

I could do with some (more!) advice from you all - this evening my husband is out and my daughter said out of the blue 'it's not so noisy now daddy isn't here, daddy does [insert screaming noises] and makes sick sounds' (ie the sexual noises I mentioned him making on Thursday). So she's clearly noticing and being impacted by his behaviour. I want to tell him as I want him to know she's taking it in so he can sort himself out in front of her, but I know he'll say I'm making it up and probably then start making his own stories up (which he is already doing). So should I try to tell him anyway, as ultimately I want to do whatever will maybe help my daughter? Or do I leave it because likely it'll just make him more angry? He's already shouted at me today saying 'shut the f*ck up about all this shit about doing stuff in front of her' and sent me various messages about how he's trying to work with me but that I keep lying. So I'm pretty sure it won't be taken on board! But I feel like he should know what she's said about his behaviour. Gah!

Can't you take your daughter away to a family member or friend's house for the next couple of weeks?
It's appalling that she's emulating sex sounds.
Imagine how much worse he will get when you tell him you're leaving?
Please just pick a day (soon) and leave without telling him.

Dear @helplesshopeless I am doing ok and my kids are perfectly fine. Just remember, whenever you feel really down that you will too. Very soon, you will have your own space, your own little heaven, where you and your DD will enjoy spending your days in peace.

As for whether or not to tell you husband about what your daughter said, I am not exactly sure what to advise you. At the same time it seems logical that you do pass this on to him so that he would watch what he does/says around her, but at the same time, I am worried that he is not stable enough to talk to reasonably. I worry that while you are still living together, you should think of yours and your daughter's safety first and things like these seem to drive him over the edge every time. I would say, just get out of there as soon as you possibly can and then, when you get some distance between you, try and communicate these things to him.

I am sending you lots of love, hugs and positive vibes.

I agree, he will say you are lying,
You should tell solicitor
She could request he ceases? Is this a done thing ?

If I understand, your solicitor is already writing to him a letter which includes comment on his behaviour - has that already gone out or can she add in a couple of sentences about the impact on your DD?
There is then a paper trail showing you raised this issue.

I think there is potentially a bigger problem, which is that if your DD is noticing his behaviour and making comments and saying in effect it is better when he is not there, you are going to run into issues when she has to spend 6-7 nights a fortnight with him (do you genuinely think she will manage this?). Therefore, there is an argument that he needs to moderate his behaviour because it is damaging his relationship with his DD and will potentially cause difficulties with getting overnight contact established. I do think you need to raise this issue now in contact negotiations and not have it only arise when you and he have agreed something in writing. In fact, I would be very wary of agreeing something final in writing, until you see how your DD manages.

I'd do it in writing. Calmly and factually. Maybe with some added reasonableness from you ("I know it's very difficult at home st the moment and tensions are high. Yesterday DD said xx and I think the situation between us is upsetting her. I'm mentioning it because I know you'll be concerned about her so I thought you should know."

He would look like an absolute knob if he accused you of lying, also you do have the option of getting a third party to talk toher and report on it in mediation if necessary.

When I say in writing, I mean via email direct to him from you.
I think getting the sols to do it at this point would be inflammatory to him, the end result you want is for him to stop the behaviour. If he ignores you or says you are lying, then you can get solicitor to communicate it.

Also I'd raise it in mediation regarding arrangements because as katy says it may be that DD would rather not be around him

Thanks everyone for your thoughts. Unfortunately the sol's letter has already gone, which did detail his behaviour (hence his comments to me telling me to stop talking about him doing things in front of her), so no chance of updating it now to include what she said.

The problem with raising it via email is that he will see it as me trying to create some sort of evidence, and he will retaliate in turn (he is already sending me various messages and talking about things our daughter has supposedly said, and saying how brilliantly she has been coping with the situation and how well we've managed the separation so far, so no doubt this new revelation will make him double down on that).

I kind of feel like he's too far gone into this web of lies and manipulation that he's weaving, and me telling him this will only make things worse. I will tell my solicitor though so she has it on file.

I think though she is ok with him when I'm not there - he obviously only behaves that way when I'm present. She's always happy to see him and wants to play with him etc. She's just clearly noticed the dynamic between us and is confused by it.

Ah okay, sorry I didn’t pick that up that the letter had gone.

The thing is you would only have evidence to collect if he provides it by his behaviour. So he is in charge of that stopping, really.

His emails are designed to muddy the waters, and create a narrative which suggests everything is fine, even if it is not. You can respond politely by saying thank you that he has shared his perspective, but he might like to know that DD has expressed some discomfort to you about his behaviour in particular when he was making undue noises. As you both want to ensure she does cope with the separation, please can he take care not to do this again?

Or you can let it go, and collude in his fiction that everything is fine, even though you know he is continuing to behave appallingly and in a way she is picking up on.

It’s the same dilemma as previously, really, he behaves abusively and you tip toe around him not to rock the boat (and because you feel guilty and he trades on that as well). There might be some sense in not rocking the boat because you are focused on getting out safely, but what you are learning is that this man lies - he lies bare-faced to you by constructing a narrative you know not to be true.

The third option is to sit on it and see what happens, if he does it again, speak at that point saying you were willing to let it go as your solicitor had already contacted him, but as he is not paying attention, you need to let him know that DD was upset by his behaviour.

His emails are designed to muddy the waters, and create a narrative which suggests everything is fine, even if it is not. You can respond politely by saying thank you that he has shared his perspective, but he might like to know that DD has expressed some discomfort to you about his behaviour in particular when he was making undue noises.
Exactly.

"Dd has expressed some discomfort"
Or
She has spoken that its nice when he's not home shouting & making inappropriate grunting noises
Nb, he is frequently mimicking sexual noises, as he goads me with his fantasy of my extra marital relationship
(ie supportive male friend at work)

I was trying to phrase it politely in response to the question of whether to send an email.

But yes, quite frankly, if a man is making inappropriate sexual noises around a child, there is a big question mark in my mind about whether he should even be allowed around that child - he shouldn’t need to be told to stop. He is not stupid, he knows it is inappropriate, but he also knows he can get away with it.

I ended up going to speak to him about it because he kept on constantly going on at me in front of her and I could see her looking at me, feeling uncertain, and wondering what was happening. So I couldn't not raise it. Of course, he didn't take it well, said I was lying, shouted all sorts at me etc, but maybe he took some of the message on board.

It's just so sad for her because she's doing things like asking him to show me something he's just shown her on his phone, and he basically blanks her, she asks several times and gets nothing back from him. It's almost like she's attempting to get him to talk to me but getting absolutely nowhere with it. I wish he could see what he was doing

In the meantime, I sent him an email outlining how I thought we could build up to the 6/14 pattern, emphasising the need to be receptive to her needs and how she was coping, rather than rushing. He absolutely went off on one at me, the intimidation and abuse was back to pre police warning, he's been absolutely awful. All day he's been making out like I'm trying to whisk her out of the house and out of his life, and destroy his relationship with her. He's stopped making the sexual noises but mimes things behind her back at every opportunity! I could list so many horrible things he's said to me in the last few days but I don't have the energy.

I've just seen a social media post that his sister has done of my daughter with hers. She's used a hashtag which is a very obvious (to me, knowing the various things he calls me) and revolting slur about me. It's an acronym so if I challenged it they could easily deny and make out like im insane, but im just gutted that they're using photos of my tiny little girl like that online, to dig at me. It just feels like it's tainting her can't believe he's happy for a pic of her to be used like that as well. It's impacted me a huge amount as it's highlighted how far he'll go to use her to hurt me. I don't care about him hurting me, but the using her is sickening. She looks so sweet and happy in the photo and then underneath is that horrible hashtag

Oh that's so sad HH ,I'm so sorry you're having to endure this .

I've nothing helpful to say except that it's good thing you didn't wait until your dd was older when she'd be more aware and on social media .

And what a dreadful man ,thank goodness you're leaving bim .

hugs

I think the straightforward answer is no, you are not trying to whisk her away, you are trying to ensure that she grows confidently into her own relationship with him and copes well, and you want a grown up discussion about how to facilitate that. I do think you are unlikely to get a grown up discussion with him, and mediation would be useful. You can then keep the discussion to one place and it is cheaper than exchanging solicitor’s letters.

Of course the honest answer is the more he behaves like he is doing, the more you should whisk her away from him. It sounds awful.

How long until you are out of there?

Regarding social media, either politely ask them to remove the hashtag and not draw your daughter into it, and then block them all from your social media, or simply block them from all your social media. It is aimed at hurting you, and if you are not around to see it, it loses its power. It is not taunting her, she is three years old. It reflects badly on those who have posted it.

*tainting her

@helplesshopeless

Am dreading telling her though, hope to do it jointly with my husband but I don't trust him to be able to do it in a helpful and positive manner.

Then why do it jointly? You know perfectly well that your instincts on this are correct, and that unless you just get on and tell her yourself, he will ensure it's a trauma for her just so he can illustrate that what you're choosing is bad for your dc.

In my experience, as both the child and the parent in this scenario, this telling the dcs jointly about divorce is something which makes the parents feel they are doing things properly, while actually being uncomfortable at best for the child or children. The emotions from the adults do filter down, however well managed, and these joint stage-managed announcements are destabilising for the dcs as they sense the fakery. Dcs need to feel that the adults have everything under control, it makes them feel safe. The only thing that is important to a child of that age is their own part in it, where they'll sleep, how their life will be. Best way is to speak about it is casually in conversation: "we are going to have two houses now, one mainly daddy's and one mainly ours, and you're going to have a bedroom in each house! You'll still go to your nursery and you'll still do '

No further explanation is needed, apart from answering any questions she has.

Forget telling her jointly with him, as you know how that will go.