Can’t decide whether I should leave previously controlling relationship

[Cantdecideaway]

I’ve been on MN a long time and have been trawling the relationships threads, amongst others, for a while, whilst trying to decide what to do about my situation.

I’ve been with my husband for 19 years, we met at school. Married for 11 years. We have a 10 year old son. My dad was exceptionally controlling, narcissistic and abusive and so moving out and in with my husband felt like a breath of fresh air! However, in the past couple of years I’ve come to recognise that he has been very controlling as well (used to refuse to allow me to talk to men, see friends of my own, pursue my own hobbies/interests etc).

As I’ve come to realise how unreasonable he’s been, I’ve been working through these issues with him and, to his credit, he’s recognised a need to change, and has been having therapy for the past year. He is no longer controlling of me although he is still very insecure.

However, I’ve come to realise, he contributes nothing to my life. He is pleasant enough and isn’t unkind to me, however I do all of the housework, mental load, parenting, caring for our animals, etc. The only thing he contributes is a paycheque. I feel like if he wasn’t there, things would be just the same, but with half the income. I wouldn’t miss him, I don’t think.

All of this is making me feel like I don’t love him, and perhaps I should leave. My son has been saying the same to me; we are very close and I think he has a good understanding of the situation. I would never burden him with this dilemma and have always reassured him that things are fine between me and my husband, however he says things like “it would be no different if daddy wasn’t here”. He works away a lot and my son is never bothered if he’s away, doesn’t miss or pine for him.

So the question is, should I stay or go. The problem being, I read so many threads on here about such awful men and I think, at least my husband is pleasant and reliable, would never cheat, earns a stable wage and doesn’t hurt us. But at the same time, it all feels hollow. I don’t love him and I don’t think to be honest he loves me. I feel really lonely. But I don’t want to leave only to find I’m even lonelier.

Sorry, that’s a long story. I have no one to turn to for advice as I am very low contact with my parents and my husband’s past behaviour has managed to ensure I don’t have any friends. Can anyone offer some perspective please?

I’ve been reading all this stuff about how these days courts favour 50:50. My son needs routine and stability, he will fall apart living in two different places. I can’t do this to him.

Your son is old enough to have an opinion and although it’s taken into account more when they’re 12/13 he can still say what he’s comfortable with.

A while back you asked this:
Do you think if you heard his perspective there could be a way this situation could be improved by me changing/acting differently?

The answer for this is in the book by Lundy Bancroft “why does he do that”

You’ll find it in a section towards the end.

His perspective we heard already when you came back after a chaotic trip out with your friend. You know that was wrong, this is where you had your Aha moment.

He won’t change. And even if he modifies his behaviour it’s as a means to an end, as you can see now

Can I ask that you check he’s not got access to your internet activities? Are you using private browser?

He will get a sense that the worm is turning and that’s why he’s being ‘nice’

Take care to keep yourself safe, if you need to move this thread somewhere more private and non searchable, please just report the thread and MNHQ will move it.

You will get through this, it will be ok, but as you know it’s darkest before the dawn so keep focused, stay determined and keep pushing

Your son is behind you all the way.

50:50 is a starting point, current arrangements and the wishes of the DC are both taken in to account.

The court welfare officer gave substantial weight to the opinion of my 5 year old.

freebooksmania.com/2021/01/why-does-he-do-that-pdf-free-download-by-lundy-bancroft.html

@FlowerArranger

freebooksmania.com/2021/01/why-does-he-do-that-pdf-free-download-by-lundy-bancroft.html

Thanks, I've already got a copy and gave it a re-read last night. Found myself feeling a bit guilty reading it - loads of his behaviour is in there but I'm not innocent, some of the things I do are in there too. But I guess neither of these things should be the case in a healthy relationship so whoever's fault it is, it needs to end.

@HappyintheHills

The court welfare officer gave substantial weight to the opinion of my 5 year old.

Thanks, that's good to know. I think I'm more worried about him getting hold of my son and managing to get him to change his mind. He's a master manipulator. He'd probably let my son do all kinds of wonderful things and then just when he was eating out of the palm of his hand he'd say "wouldn't you like to live with me instead"

Read this thread today Boyfriend thinks I act differently with him around others www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/4336749-boyfriend-thinks-i-act-differently-with-him-around-others

And so much rang true in here!! This is almost exactly what my husband did at the beginning to make sure I never had any friends or family support or social life!! And as one poster said on that thread, as long as it's just me and him, and I'm compliant, he's lovely to me!!

@Cantdecideaway

I’ve read all of your own posts and some of others but I didn’t read everyone’s comments as I didn’t have time but I really felt I had to post on this thread.

however he says things like “it would be no different if daddy wasn’t here
This sentence from your son actually breaks my heart, it really does. I grew up with a physically present but emotionally absent father. I won’t go into too much more detail as there’s no need here but it did untold damage to me in so many ways. I used to play along with the charade & pretend to others that we were ‘normal.’ My wish was that I had a father I could communicate with OR that my parents separated. Neither of those things happened…I just find it so sad that your son feels so distant from his father. I know how he feels. However, I used to feel that things would be different if he weren’t there: they would have been less tense, more predictable and happier.

I know you’ve made up your mind now and good for you. It’s commendable that your H went to therapy for a year and could accept his controlling behaviour was wrong … but it seems like maybe the damage is done & that maybe it’s too little, too late?

You mentioned being afraid you’d end up with someone ‘worse.’ Well, this is the other reason I had to post. When I separated from my H for the first time, I did end up with someone much worse (emotional abuse) and had another incident with a different man (sexual abuse); so I went back to my H a while later because he really didn’t seem so bad by comparison. The marriage then ended again a few years later. I hadn’t built up my self-esteem enough and I was nowhere near emotionally ready to meet someone new but I thought I was . So, I guess I’m saying to really take the time to heal from this relationship. Even if you feel ready, the scars might still be raw for quite some time.

Finally, you expressed fear of being single or lonely. I am single and lonely. The initial relief of leaving my H left and the MN thread that spurred me on obviously came to an end. I sadly don’t have children so maybe I’m lonelier than you would be, I don’t know. People say I’m ‘a great catch’ etc but I know it’s not that easy to meet someone new. I’m slowly slowly disentangling emotionally from my ex as I miss the friendship greatly. I think what I’m trying to say is that you may feel lonely for quite some time after you leave and I think that’s normal. People say the loneliness of being in a bad relationship is worse but I think it’s different to be honest. Being a single woman in the world can be difficult and lonely (but it can also be liberating & exciting).

You mentioned grocery shopping & I must admit that’s one of my favourite things since being single: I can buy and eat whatever I want! Such a simple thing but god it’s amazing.

Break-ups are painful and you are brave OP. Don’t worry about losing his family if you can. People can surprise you and hopefully they’ll understand. They may well.

And … Your son sounds like an angel.

[quote Perriwinkles]@Cantdecideaway

I’ve read all of your own posts and some of others but I didn’t read everyone’s comments as I didn’t have time but I really felt I had to post on this thread.

however he says things like “it would be no different if daddy wasn’t here
This sentence from your son actually breaks my heart, it really does. I grew up with a physically present but emotionally absent father. I won’t go into too much more detail as there’s no need here but it did untold damage to me in so many ways. I used to play along with the charade & pretend to others that we were ‘normal.’ My wish was that I had a father I could communicate with OR that my parents separated. Neither of those things happened…I just find it so sad that your son feels so distant from his father. I know how he feels. However, I used to feel that things would be different if he weren’t there: they would have been less tense, more predictable and happier.

I know you’ve made up your mind now and good for you. It’s commendable that your H went to therapy for a year and could accept his controlling behaviour was wrong … but it seems like maybe the damage is done & that maybe it’s too little, too late?

You mentioned being afraid you’d end up with someone ‘worse.’ Well, this is the other reason I had to post. When I separated from my H for the first time, I did end up with someone much worse (emotional abuse) and had another incident with a different man (sexual abuse); so I went back to my H a while later because he really didn’t seem so bad by comparison. The marriage then ended again a few years later. I hadn’t built up my self-esteem enough and I was nowhere near emotionally ready to meet someone new but I thought I was . So, I guess I’m saying to really take the time to heal from this relationship. Even if you feel ready, the scars might still be raw for quite some time.

Finally, you expressed fear of being single or lonely. I am single and lonely. The initial relief of leaving my H left and the MN thread that spurred me on obviously came to an end. I sadly don’t have children so maybe I’m lonelier than you would be, I don’t know. People say I’m ‘a great catch’ etc but I know it’s not that easy to meet someone new. I’m slowly slowly disentangling emotionally from my ex as I miss the friendship greatly. I think what I’m trying to say is that you may feel lonely for quite some time after you leave and I think that’s normal. People say the loneliness of being in a bad relationship is worse but I think it’s different to be honest. Being a single woman in the world can be difficult and lonely (but it can also be liberating & exciting).

You mentioned grocery shopping & I must admit that’s one of my favourite things since being single: I can buy and eat whatever I want! Such a simple thing but god it’s amazing.

Break-ups are painful and you are brave OP. Don’t worry about losing his family if you can. People can surprise you and hopefully they’ll understand. They may well.

And … Your son sounds like an angel. [/quote]
Thanks so so much for being so honest here. I think that's the thing I'm struggling with. It doesn't matter how cut and dried it is that this man is not the man I should be living with - he's still a man I've spent 20 years, my entire adult life with. And it's not so easy just to shut the door on that.

I'd be so afraid of committing to anyone else, and I think it's quite likely it'll be a long time. That loneliness you describe is the other thing I'm afraid of. But as you say, I have my son and hopefully he won't be taken away from me or turned against me. Maybe his family will surprise me too...(can't see it, myself, but we never know).

And thanks, yes my son is my best friend and the most incredible person I will ever know. I am so grateful for him.

It doesn't matter how cut and dried it is that this man is not the man I should be living with - he's still a man I've spent 20 years, my entire adult life with. And it's not so easy just to shut the door on that
Exactly. I was/am the same. My exH and I were together a long time from a young enough age too and it’s taking time to disentangle. Every now & again, as I lie in bed alone at night, I get a bolt of clarity and think, ‘you wouldn’t have uprooted your life and chosen to live here (much less comfort) without him if everything was hunky sorry.’ So, I think trust comes into it. Trust your own feelings and instincts.

*hunky dorey

The more my eyes are open, the more I realise how much shit I've been tolerating! Memories keep coming back of times he's been utterly absurd!!

When I had my son I had a very quick labour. My boss at the time was surprised by how quick my labour had been and said, in a very crass text, that I must have a "bucket fanny" to have given birth so quickly (it was a male dominated workplace and there was a lot of "banter") Obviously his behaviour was completely unacceptable too...but...on the basis of this one text my husband required that I immediately leave this role without notice, which ended up with me being unemployed, and being taken to court for breach of contract - the whole thing cost us about £5k as well as costing me my job.

His rationale for this was that if my boss would use the word "fanny" in a text to me, we were clearly in an intimate relationship (we definitely definitely were NOT).

Tbh he had been looking for an excuse to get me to leave this job for a while because there were so many men there...

Another time when I was trying to get him to see how crazy it was that he had never trusted me despite me giving him absolutely no reason to doubt me...he said he could never ever trust me because I'd had another sexual partner before him. 🤷‍♀️

@youvegottenminuteslynn yes, this, Couples can be excited about their lives, have lots of laughter everyday together, be proud of each other without jealousy, not have a history of abuse... I am afraid that a lot of us are accepting the bare minimum a life can give. That is the problem. Instead of counting what we have (love, respect, appreciation, yes, laughter and joy), we count what we do not have (beatings, swearing, shouting) when we try to measure the quality of our life.

The thing is OP, and I learned this both from my therapist as well as some other wise posters here on MN, you do not have to look for reason why you want to leave your relationship, it is enough that you want to. Your feelings matter, your needs are important, your opinion is valuable, and you should trust your instincts. Maybe your husband is not “that bad”, but he is not good enough for you. Also, I find, that people who are in healthy relationships do not think about divorce, do not come to MN to unload, or ask for advice. In other words, the fact that you are here wondering what to do tells it all, and I am telling you this from my own experience (recently separated). People do not change. You are obviously not happy in the marriage (for whatever reason and it does not have to be “that bad” to be justified), nothing you or your DH or anyone else says or does will change that. You may decide to “suck it up”, pretend that all is well and continue living like this, of course, but things will not get better, I promise you that, they will only get worse. I spent over twenty-five years with my husband, and he was “good enough”, but for the last decade, even more, I have been feeling unhappy and miserable and it grew and grew until I could not “suck it up” anymore and it just burst out of me like a volcano, four months ago.

I realize that I am joining a little late and can see that you are already thinking about leaving, good for you. Know this, it is going to be hard and it will get much worse before it gets better but it will be worth it.

My experience was a bit like @Perriwinkles' in that I didn't just hop straight into the arms of a kind and loving man. Ahhh, no, life is not as easy as that and will rub your nose in the same lessons over and over again until you finally learn them. I had a lot of growing up to do, and had to let go of some self-limiting core beliefs about myself and the world around me.

Ultimately though, isn't that what life is supposed to be about? Learning and growing, instead of stagnating?

Your old boss sounds like a real horror but what an awful move to make you quit your job! That’s dreadful. You may feel like you are overreacting now but tbh it sounds you have been under reacting to a load of BS for quite some time

My first relationship out of the abuse situation was bad too, silent treatment and management of how things should be and discounting my opinion etc

It was the silent treatment that made me sit up. He did it once, I told him how I felt and that he couldn’t do that. He did it again. Told him again how I wouldn’t tolerate it again.

He did it again. I dumped him.

He didn’t take no for an answer, tried to lure me over to his under the pretences of a health scare. With the help of MN buddies I called 999, explained the issue, that I didn’t believe he was ill, but that he’d texted “HELP”

At this point I’d already told him not to contact me, I didn’t ever answer his texts, he’s send the same “thinking of you” every couple of days. Again no response to any text he sent.

The 999 resulted in “police here, won’t bother you again”

I still got the odd email or fb message years later. He said he was emigrating,

You HAVE to be consistent and absolutely focused on the knowledge that you deserve better.

I did quite a bit of online dating and with every person I spoke to, met or had a relationship with I learned how I needed to be treated and. Built my boundaries

My lovely oh (5years loved up) intially was wobbly about relationships because he’d been absolutely destroyed by his ex. He said he wasn’t sure he was ready for a relationship

Oh ffs I thought. I said to him, I’ve got friends, I’m not particularly interested in gaining more friends, I want a relationship

He got the picture thankfully and we’re inseparable. We’re indivisible, we’re unbreakable as a couple and together we’re bigger than the sum of our parts. We give each other the strength we each need

I wish all this and more for you, for all of you.

It was MN that helped me out of the disaster I was in. I’d love to help everyone out of their disasters too.

Keep going. Stay focused

Thanks @MzHz , I do feel I'm losing focus, I keep thinking "what if we have a lovely Christmas and I can't justify going in the new year"

But then he shows how little he cares yet again and I gain a bit more focus....

Hopefully I stay on track

@MzHz
I’d love to help everyone out of their disasters too
That's how I feel, it's like I feel it's a kind of duty to help others climb out of this situation. It's like being stuck in skip with slippery sides and no ladder.

@Cantdecideaway, try not to decide whether to leave or not based on whether you are currently having a "lovely" time or not. Especially as it might not really be all that lovely, if you had the perspective of more experience.

Sorry OP I meant to flag this:
and I can't justify going

You don't have to "justify" it to anyone.

Justify, yes that’s interesting choice of words

You’re leaving because it’s what you know you need to do.

One swallow does not a summer make and all that.

People like him USE the trick of being “nice” to get what they want. When they have what they want they go back to being themselves; nasty.

If you have a good Christmas then it’ll be a good memory in a sea of bad memories.

@Alcemeg (((hug)))

We have to put this ‘bad’ we’ve endured to work for the greater good eh? And to pay forward to others who are lost in the spaghetti head phase.

Btw, in case anyone wonders, spaghetti head is what these people do to us, isolate us, gas light us, confuse us, blow hot and cold so we doubt ourselves, and it also prevents the scales from falling from our eyes.

I've seen on other threads people saying that "controlling"'is a mumsnet thing. Hoping I haven't put myself in an echo chamber...

No love, this isn’t the case with you

True there are daft threads where controlling and abusive get shouted at the drop of a hat, but not on this thread

You’re not happy, your son isn’t happy it’s time to do something about that

@Cantdecideaway

I've seen on other threads people saying that "controlling"'is a mumsnet thing. Hoping I haven't put myself in an echo chamber...

There's always a danger on MN that everyone jumps on your situation and reads it just like their own. Then, before you know it, your own voice is drowned out by everyone else's. The trick is to be selective in what makes sense to you.

It sounds as though you'd consider it a massive overdramatisation to call your marriage in any way "abusive," so just keep in mind the words that you prefer to apply to it, such as lonely and loveless.