Can’t decide whether I should leave previously controlling relationship

[Cantdecideaway]

I’ve been on MN a long time and have been trawling the relationships threads, amongst others, for a while, whilst trying to decide what to do about my situation.

I’ve been with my husband for 19 years, we met at school. Married for 11 years. We have a 10 year old son. My dad was exceptionally controlling, narcissistic and abusive and so moving out and in with my husband felt like a breath of fresh air! However, in the past couple of years I’ve come to recognise that he has been very controlling as well (used to refuse to allow me to talk to men, see friends of my own, pursue my own hobbies/interests etc).

As I’ve come to realise how unreasonable he’s been, I’ve been working through these issues with him and, to his credit, he’s recognised a need to change, and has been having therapy for the past year. He is no longer controlling of me although he is still very insecure.

However, I’ve come to realise, he contributes nothing to my life. He is pleasant enough and isn’t unkind to me, however I do all of the housework, mental load, parenting, caring for our animals, etc. The only thing he contributes is a paycheque. I feel like if he wasn’t there, things would be just the same, but with half the income. I wouldn’t miss him, I don’t think.

All of this is making me feel like I don’t love him, and perhaps I should leave. My son has been saying the same to me; we are very close and I think he has a good understanding of the situation. I would never burden him with this dilemma and have always reassured him that things are fine between me and my husband, however he says things like “it would be no different if daddy wasn’t here”. He works away a lot and my son is never bothered if he’s away, doesn’t miss or pine for him.

So the question is, should I stay or go. The problem being, I read so many threads on here about such awful men and I think, at least my husband is pleasant and reliable, would never cheat, earns a stable wage and doesn’t hurt us. But at the same time, it all feels hollow. I don’t love him and I don’t think to be honest he loves me. I feel really lonely. But I don’t want to leave only to find I’m even lonelier.

Sorry, that’s a long story. I have no one to turn to for advice as I am very low contact with my parents and my husband’s past behaviour has managed to ensure I don’t have any friends. Can anyone offer some perspective please?

Children often say out-there things because they don't realize the gravitas of what they're saying and can't put events into an adult context. However, it's incredibly sad that your son said that. How old is he? Does his father play with him?

This is not a great example of a marriage for your child, but could you cope on your own, financially? Does your son ever see you and your husband being genuinely affectionate towards each other? Are the smiles or laughter in the house?

@EarthSight he’s 10. His dad does the odd bit of rough and tumble with him (mutually enjoyed and gentle before anyone suggests otherwise!) but largely doesn’t engage with him. He’s never taken him out on his own or taken him away anywhere overnight, whereas he and I regularly go camping together and have been on some overseas trips without my husband. My son has quite significant separation anxiety from me, but couldn’t care less when my husband goes away, which is fairly frequent due to his work.

@EarthSight sorry, posted too soon. We could just about manage, financially, but only if we relocated. And no, there’s no genuine fun or affection but I keep up appearances because at the moment I’m conscious that we’re relying on our relationship to be able to live here, so I do play the part of the affectionate loving wife, kisses and hugs etc. They’re not genuine though. I don’t think they are genuine from my husband either. Quite wooden.

Sometimes I wonder if I should have done more to get my husband to do more with my son. But I feel like that wasn’t my responsibility. He had the option to do it, you have to put some effort in to have a relationship. But I didn’t go out of my way to build that relationship for them. I don’t think I’ve stood in the way of it though.

Trying to make sure I’m taking a balanced viewpoint here.

I’ve only given you all one perspective though, mine. Do you think if you heard his perspective there could be a way this situation could be improved by me changing/acting differently?

No. Because you can only change your own behaviour, not his. None of the things wrong with this situation is caused by you, therefore they cannot be changed by you.

This is the question all abuse victims ask tbh, because they've been trained to blame themselves and to believe they are responsible for the abuse and it will stop once they fully submit to the abuser.

That's not true though.

And you're in the familiar abuse victim's trap of not knowing what normal is and therefore staying with one abuser because he's not as awful as your previous abuser.

Frankly, when your situation is so dysfunctional that even a child who's grown up within it knowing nothing else, and who does not have the perspective to know what a non-abusive home would be like, is pointing out to you that it's wrong and telling you they'd be happier if you left - well, I think you should listen.

But I didn’t go out of my way to build that relationship for them.

Well, no. Because that's not only impossible but a completely crazy notion. You can't build a relationship for other people.

Come on. I don't think you're trying to take a "balanced viewpoint" , I think you're trying to talk yourself out of action.

Sometimes I wonder if I should have done more to get my husband to do more with my son.

How? Attach strings to his arms and legs to turn him into a human puppet? Prodded him along with a sharp stick? How? Talk us through what that would have looked like.

But I feel like that wasn’t my responsibility.

Correct. Not your responsibility, but more importantly, not within your power.

Stop taking responsibility for other people's choices and actions. I understand why you are after a lifetime of abusers training you to blame yourself for their actions, but it is wrong and you need to re-train yourself now.

Hello again OP, I'm tired tonight so keep posting things that come out wrong, sorry!

Just to say, this struck me:

I’ve only given you all one perspective though, mine. Do you think if you heard his perspective there could be a way this situation could be improved by me changing/acting differently?

Long ago, I was married for nearly 2 decades to someone who was often emotionally abusive (although of course that's never the whole story; this is how we get stuck). And I remember clearly that feeling that any disloyal feeling might not be FAIR to him, because it was "only my perspective" and I was used to that not counting particularly, especially compared to his.

Does this ring any bells with you?

Also this:
I have no one to turn to for advice as ... my husband’s past behaviour has managed to ensure I don’t have any friends.
This too can give you a sense that your own viewpoint has been erased. I'm glad your son is prodding you gently.

Please don't be swayed by all the stuff about "It's always worth trying to rekindle that special spark." Oh no it bloody well isn't! 😁 The first step to finding true love and happiness in life is NOT playing tricks on yourself to create the illusion that you already have it all. The first step is drawing a line under things that have run their course.

(Not saying any of this as though it's easy to act on, mind...!)

@Alcemeg

Hello OP, I think for your son to be hinting that life might be better without your husband around suggests that things are worse than you realise. x

Also OP, following on from your lack of friends...

...what I meant when I rather hastily wrote this [post quoted above] earlier was that your son goes out into the world and has a social life; so in an odd way, despite his youth, he might well have a more fully rounded perspective than you do... and this is what makes him so acutely aware of what's missing in your life.

For example, if he's seen his friends at their home, it might have been a bit of an eye-opener for him to see what healthy and more balanced relationships can look like.

by seeing his friends' parents interacting, I mean.

Kids have a built-in bullshit detector and you know yourself that you and your husband are play-acting.

How is it going OP? What are your thoughts?

@qwertyuiop098 I’m still dithering.

You see, I could have described my situation in a different way and given you all a different perspective that would have meant you face different advice. I’m no angel. I’m not perfect either.

If you asked my husband about me, he’d probably say: I spend time on my phone ignoring others, I often can’t be bothered to play with my son, I don’t make enough effort with my appearance, I have a tendency to take over in situations and act like the only one who is competent.

He also thinks I drink more than I should and I am too flirtatious (I don’t think these things are true, I drink within the recommended limits and whilst I enjoy the platonic company of men this is something I’ve never been allowed to enjoy)

My point is. I’m not Perfect myself and I could easily leave and find that this was actually a good situation. I don’t have anything to compare with.

I just feel so sad. I went away with my son last week and we had such a lovely time. I came home last night and was told that I had gained weight and was now unattractive (but “it’s ok because I still love you”)

I just feel very very sad right now. Neither staying nor going makes me happy. I am close to several members of his family; saying goodbye To him would also be saying goodbye to them, and I’d be saying goodbye to the entire history of my adult life.

So your username was chosen carefully, eh, OP! It's a difficult situation.

Glad you came back, I thought I'd been heavy-handed the other night when tired and I know from experience how terrifying it is to post a thread about your own life.

Also when you do your own thread, you realise how hard it is to convey the actual organic detail of the whole situation. Online, everyone treats the "characters" you describe including you more or less like a puppet theatre, because we don't know the people involved so there's always a massive amount of projection.

Given those caveats, a few things strike me about what you've shared so far.

First of all, "previously controlling relationship" is an odd way to describe it because controlling people tend not to change their spots overnight, unless something really dramatic has happened (head injury? medication? 100% dedication to therapy?). For example, him describing you as flirtatious, when that's not your perspective at all, raises a red flag.

Second of all, no one is perfect, but the fact that your husband points out your "imperfections" is rather unkind. For example, I don't make an effort with my appearance either, but my husband doesn't care. He did once comment "Oh, I don't think I can let you go out like that," but he was doing me a favour because I'd just washed and towel-dried my hair without looking in a mirror and actually looked like Ken Dodd 😂 But to have someone critical of you in these ways is deeply undermining, it erodes you like a steady drip on rock.

For you, it might be interesting to unpick "I often can’t be bothered to play with my son" because you sound as though you have a good relationship with your son. Why should you play with him all the time when you obviously spend quality time together? When does your husband raise this as a problem? What reasons might he have for pointing it out (e.g. there are times when your son demands his attention and he'd rather you dealt with it -- that's a wild guess/example)...?

"I spend time on my phone ignoring others" suggests that you are bored with the company you're in. Does he mean ignoring him? I often wish that marriages had to go through a test every 5 years, ARE YOU BORED STIFF? and anyone who answers "Oh God, yes," is free to go with no questions asked. Relationships run their course, and life is precious. I was going to say life is short, but it is also unbearably L-O-N-G and teeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedioussssssssss if you are stuck with someone you've had enough of. I think it's a shame so many couples spend 50-odd years waiting for the other one will to first so that they'll finally get a chance to live life differently. My mum is one of these, and my dad is now 93. I hate saying this about them because I love them both dearly, but it's true, and incredibly sad, and because of it I worry for them both all the time. I wish they'd both had a chance at finding real happiness.

Have a think about "I have a tendency to take over in situations and act like the only one who is competent" -- it may be that you are quite justified in doing that, and exasperated that you have to!

Obviously I have no idea, these are just examples of how you need to look under the surface of his accusations.

My point is. I’m not Perfect myself and I could easily leave and find that this was actually a good situation. I don’t have anything to compare with.
Well, I don't think it's a good idea to stay with someone who thinks you're unattractive so he's doing you a favour by loving you anyway. No, no, no!!! that's not what love is... as I eventually realised, in my second marriage 😉

I honestly think that breaking up a marriage is the most frightening thing we can contemplate, so the very fact that you're thinking about it means it's a really great idea. It must be, because we're not naturally inclined towards stress and upheaval. Something in your gut tells you to keep thinking about this, and I'm afraid it won't go away because your gut is right.

As for the "entire history of your adult life," of course it's sad to close a chapter. But then you have a chance to build a whole new history for yourself; and really I think that's what is egging you on, the belief (or at least the curiosity, the hope) that there must be more to Life. And there is.

But anyway

Jeeeeeezzzzzzz!!!!! I typed that fast without previewing it (about to start work) and have just realised it's about 9 pages long 😋 sorry!!!

waiting for the other one will to first so

was meant to say

waiting for the other one to die first

and I meant to delete

But anyway

😁

In future I will preview my posts even when in a hurry!!!

Oh my gosh, you are a very insightful person. And absolutely right on many counts. There’s so much that rings true from your post.

It’s weird though. He has realised how controlling he used to be, and realised, after hours and hours of conversation, how awful that made me feel. So he’s sort of flipped on that, to “do whatever you want” - which makes it difficult at times when I know the thing I want to do will make him feel uncomfortable, even though he’s now not expressing that. It’s hard to enjoy doing something when you know it’s making someone else feel uncomfortable, even when on the surface they pretend to be fine about it. It feels like having removed his crutch of “controlling me”, he feels too afraid to commit fully to our relationship and so is distancing himself under the guise of being “really laid back” about what I do.

His parents are very superficial with their relationships. They have lots of “friends” but I’d say none of these friendships are genuine or meaningful, I’d describe them as acquaintances. They never really get to know people wholly. I feel like he’s the same with us. For example, every evening when we have dinner he sits down and asks us “how were your days” and we tell him but it feels just like a charade we’re going through rather than that he’s actually interested.

Anyway, I think he’s got the impression that I’m not very happy in our marriage and he’s trying really hard to be affectionate and loving but it all just feels fake and makes me uncomfortable. But while he’s being so nice I feel like if he asked me to explain what he could do differently, it would be hard to put my finger on what it was I’d like him to change.

I feel like I’m being a bit of a spoilt brat, expecting perfection and a wonderful prince of a husband when what I have got is a reliable, safe and trustworthy man who’s stuck by me for almost 20 years.

But then the other side of me thinks “I’m an incredible wife and a great mum and a brilliant person and you should be fucking worshipping me not just making me feel adequate at best”

@Alcemeg I’ve just read your post again and it’s brought tears to my eyes. How on Earth did I find myself in this mess. 😔

@CloseYourEyesAndSee

Being on your own is better than being with a man you don't love, who contributes nothing to your life and who has controlled you, even if that has stopped.

This.

Oh OP
That's just life! We all end up in weird situations. And honestly, I think the one you're in is quite common. It's a shame that so few people do anything about it, for precisely the fears you mention. So, those of us who find ourselves wondering if we should leave... instead of leaving, beat ourselves up with self-doubt and end up convincing ourselves we're selfish, irrational freaks.

I’m being a bit of a spoilt brat, expecting perfection and a wonderful prince of a husband
No, no, you're not, though, are you? Do you seriously think that's what you're expecting? This is your inner critic talking, the one he feeds daily. The one telling you how silly you are. Stop and look more closely. You don't expect anything, do you? You're actually scared. Scared of a life empty of pleasures such as the "chapter" you've shared with some of his family. Scared of never finding a happiness that equals this one.

But while he’s being so nice I feel like if he asked me to explain what he could do differently, it would be hard to put my finger on what it was I’d like him to change.
How about... you're just not happy? That's more than enough, honestly. You don't have to explain it to anyone. Not even to him. He wouldn't understand it anyway. And expecting anyone to change is unrealistic. For example, it sounds as though the way he now controls you is by pretending he doesn't mind what you do, knowing that layer upon layer of headfuckery has been so deeply absorbed into your outlook that it will control you without him even glancing in your direction.

One of the reasons this is so hard is that you won't find out what's wrong with your situation until AFTER you've escaped it. It's all normal to you. So of course you worry about the alternatives, and fret that you'd be making the most terrible mistake of your life by leaving. But I am pretty sure you'd be more like me: bracing yourself anxiously for that moment when you start to miss him and "reality kicks in" to your stupid little doll-head fantasy about wanting a stupid silly little better life for yourself... and, as the years go by, gradually realising with shock that you're actually relieved not to be dealing with him any more; and that your confidence is growing, and that life is sprouting in all kinds of unexpected directions, and that you no longer need to hide your shining light, and that you no longer belittle yourself constantly with internalised insults.

But then the other side of me thinks “I’m an incredible wife and a great mum and a brilliant person and you should be fucking worshipping me not just making me feel adequate at best”
That's the spirit 😃😍

I know it feels like a terrifying risk, and you keep telling yourself that you will be losing something precious, but you already have some information to go on: the time you spend away with your son. How does the quality of that time compare with the quality of time you spend with your husband? You know the answer to that. Imagine if the kind of time you have with your son could be multiplied fractally so that you're surrounded by it, not just treasuring little pockets of it when you can get away from DH. Well, that's what life is like when you make a fresh start alone. I'm not saying it's easy peasy (all things take time to build) but it's not as hard as you think... It's not as hard as staying!

P.S. Try not to focus on your DH and what he could / couldn't do better / differently. From what you say about his parents, he's just acting out what he thinks is normal. So in a way you'd be doing him a favour by leaving, because you are both locked into this dynamic that neither of you can even see (like fish being unable to "see" the water they swim in). Everyone, including him, deserves a chance to take some risks in life and find out more about themselves and what life has to offer. It's all a learning journey, but not when you're stuck in a stagnant pond.

@Alcemeg once again, you’re so right.

BUT

Thinking about this another way, and not to contradict anything already said, but I guess just to make sure I’ve thought about this in all possible directions…

I’ve been sat on the fence for a couple of years now. Which means I haven’t been doing my best to nurture this relationship either. If I decided to go back in with both feet and make this work…might things improve? Perhaps my lack of investment (after many years of full investment!) has also damaged our relationship. No difficulties in relationships are one sided.

“ it sounds as though the way he now controls you is by pretending he doesn't mind what you do, knowing that layer upon layer of headfuckery has been so deeply absorbed into your outlook that it will control you without him even glancing in your direction.”

This rings VERY true. My dad does this too. I realised about a decade after no contact, when I suddenly realised in the supermarket aged almost 30, that I could actually buy whichever laundry detergent I wanted. The feeling of freedom was shocking.

Oh how I’ve recreated my own toxic shitty little world.

If I decided to go back in with both feet and make this work…might things improve?
Is that even possible, though? I mean, how would that work, going in with both feet? Wouldn't it mean feeling enthusiastic (instead of plagued by doubts over at least 2 years) about your shared future, contented and relaxed (instead of anxious and bored) in his company, etc...?

Of course no difficulties in relationships are one-sided, but there are some things that don't work because they don't work. I have a feeling that the only way you and your husband could improve the dynamics of your relationship would be if you both became different people. And there's only one way to achieve that, and it involves going your own ways.

I know, life can be very frustrating! I'm sure that Cosmic Joker is having a laugh.